Grasschopper

Ok so this isn't a troll thread but a rant. I cyclocommute and am a roadie and occasional MTB rider. This morning on my commute in I was just appaled by another commuter I saw coming the other way just before I got to work. I leave home now around 7:00 am and the sun is still not over the horizon but it is STARTING to become light out. I run 2 rear lights, headlights and wear bright clothes as I ride on some rural roads and one main road to get to work...I WANT to be seen with no doubt. So I am coming up the 4 lane road just outside of our factory and coming the other way is another cyclocommuter. This guy had no lights and was wearing a black helmet, black or dark blue non reflective jacket and had no reflectors that I could see on the bike.

Is he trying to get killed?

As much as I hate and don't suggest riding on the sidewalk that is exactly where this guy needed to be. This road has a 35 mph speed limit but everyone goes 40-50 mph and it is 4 lanes and not divided so you are dealing with crossing traffic as well as fast traffic in your own direction. The sun wasn't up enough to be seen and even if it was he would have been riding INTO the sun making it even harder for a motorist to see him.

I hope he made it.

waterboy

I am always surprised at the number of folks I see early in the AM or after sunset with no lighting. And you are right, many don't even where light colored or reflective clothing. I see the same with many joggers and dog walkers on the MUP. Last night around 6:30 pm on the way home there was a lady walking her dog. The dog had a weak red blinky on the collar but she was brunette wearing some type of brushed black sweatsuit- totally absorbed all light. So maybe the dog will come home with an empty leash. What are they thinking? I don't know. I think its just an overall ignorance to the world around them. They live in a bubble and don't think about the bigger picture or how they may be seen/not seen by others.

I think most cycle commuters have a better understanding and awareness of the impact of no lights, or riding unpredictably than many recreational riders. I wonder if many of the folks I see riding in the dark just don't do it very often and feel that the cost/wt/hassle of lights just aren't worth it. But we know different don't we. One accident is all it takes to change, or end your life.

geog_dash

Same deal here at sunset. If I go out in the evening, either on bike or in car, I ALWAYS see at least two bikes running around in the dark with no lights or reflectors. It annoys me because debates about making the town "bicycle friendly" inevitably take on a tone of "why should we help these idiots?" Addressing that attitude is tough when it fits a large proportion of local cyclists. I don't want bike lanes and trails. I want education and law enforcement.

jyossarian

Your ninja cyclist reminds me of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal. Here's what the Guide has to say:

"Daft as a hairbrush, the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal is arguably the most insanely idiotically dense creature in existence. It believes that if you can't see it, it can't see you. "

dbg

I don't completely know the veracity of my statements (since when does that stop me), but I usually tell people that unless they are complying with rules regarding reflectors and lights on their bike, they'll have trouble collecting any insurance if they get hit by a car.

My other favorite statement when people comment about my bright yellow jackets is, "on a bicycle, visibility is life itself."

Choccy

I have seen people at 5am down a country lane with no lighting or reflectives. I have friend who works for the police and he told me the stats for the UK last year there were 226 cyclists killed and 92% of those did not have lights or reflectives. That's quite a high percentage.

thdave

I bet they have reflectors but your lights aren't bright enough to shine off of them.

I got hollered at by a woman driver last week, when I rode home in the rain and dark. I was on the road (a 25 mph side street) and saw her coming out of a school parking lot at pretty high speeds. She wasn't going to stop, but finally did when she saw me.

Moments later she passed and rolled down her window and said, "I can't see you!" I replied I had my lights on, and, of course, I had all my reflectors installed and my tires have a reflective sidewall. She answered that I didn't have lights on the side of my bike. That was that.

I have generator lights in front and back and a blinkie, also in back.

The bottom line--reflectors have limited value. She couldn't see mine since her lights didn't shine well enough on them and the rain added to the problem. I might get more blinkies and pin them to my coat.

Bottom line--you need lights.

BigDaddyPete

Last night I saw my personal favorite. I've seen all manner of bike ninjas, most usually heading the wrong way into traffic, but this guy, in his all black clothes, giant puffy black coat, hood pulled up so just his nose stuck out and holding his blinkie in his hand was definately the winner. At first I thought well at least he has a blinkie, but then he cupped it in his hand and held his bar with it. So his hand kinda turned red, but not really. I'm sure no one else saw it, I just pay attention more because I ride. Where I am, there are 2 distinct groups of people that commute by bike, people like me, who wear bright clothes, have lights and pay attention to traffic laws, and then there are people from one of our many southern neighbors who have no clue. They are often seen riding Magnas. I'm surprised I don't read about more bike ninjas getting pasted. Some one needs to reach out to our immigrant community and educate them. When I have tried, I get creatively cursed out in Spanish.

vrkelley

The peds are equally as "stupid here" The walk on the MUP in the dark, in dark clothes on a MUP that has a steep decent. It's really fun when they do this in the rain and at night! Even with my lights on, sometimes it's difficult to see them.

Not everyone has the bucks for 10 blinkies 3-M DOT reflectant stickys, and a front headlight AND an extra change of clothes that's hi vis ( and a partridge in a pear tree).

ghettocruiser

I see more cars with no lights that bikes with no lights around here.

Which of course is another strike against the reflector-only solution.

Bikepacker67

Don't forget your towel...

I-Like-To-Bike

Whether your statement about collecting insurance is true or not is immaterial; no one is going to pay attention to it or alter their cycling behavior because of it; unless they are cycling with the intention of collecting an insurance payout.

BigDaddyPete

True,
But a blinkie certainly will not bankrupt anyone. Just one, please. I wonder if I could start somekind of bike commuter blinkie donation drive to help distribute them to cyclists without them. Save a life or 2

Tequila Joe

A Darwin Award candidate.

DataJunkie

The amount of ninja cyclists on my route has increased drastically lately due to the warmer weather.
I could care less if they get themselves killed. It annoys me that they almost run into me or I into them.

jeff-o

I see people riding around without lights all the time. Mostly university students (and they're supposed to be intelligent??), but also working-class folks. All of the obviously hardcore cyclist commuters have lights (including myself).

Treespeed

Maybe it's a suicide by bike attempt, like those folks who commit suicide by cop?

JeffS

I take it as further evidence that the risks of cycling are greatly overstated by most "enthusiasts" - just like with virtually every other sport.

I rarely see a light on a bicycle and almost never hear of a bicycle involved accident.

Protect yourself as much as you want, but realize that your perceived risks are not necessarily shared by others, and are also not necessary reality.

crtreedude 

Of course, it is your circumstance that dictates your degree of blinky. I might see a car on the way home or to work. If so, they see me - and it might be as I pass them.

I do have a light though for when it is dark. I have to see the fer-de-lance laying in the road...

ed 

This is kind of an interesting thread to say the least...


Grasschopper - "Is he trying to get killed?.....As much as I hate and don't suggest riding on the sidewalk"
All of the cops I have talked to say that they'd rather see a bike on the sidewalk than on the street causing traffic congestion. What say you?

waterboy - "One accident is all it takes to change, or end your life."
If the idiot chooses to die in that manner...why should I care?

geog_dash - It annoys me because debates about making the town "bicycle friendly" inevitably take on a tone of "why should we help these idiots?"
How do you make a town bicycle friendly? What type of changes must be made? Is it a bike lane thing, build freeride parks, build trails in the public parks? What exactly is necessary for a "bicycle friendly" town?

Choccy - "stats for the UK last year there were 226 cyclists killed and 92% of those did not have lights or reflectives"
Was that stat obtained with only roadie data or did it include all facets of cycling?


BigDaddyPete - "Where I am, there are 2 distinct groups of people that commute by bike, people like me, who wear bright clothes, have lights and pay attention to traffic laws, and then there are people from one of our many southern neighbors who have no clue. They are often seen riding Magnas...Some one needs to reach out to our immigrant community and educate them. When I have tried, I get creatively cursed out in Spanish."
Do you pledge your allegience to Hitler or are you just a mild racist?

DataJunkie - "I could care less if they get themselves killed. It annoys me that they almost run into me or I into them."
Amen Brotha...if they wanna off themselves then you guys don't have to spend all this valuable time worrying about them like you seem to be doing. Just let them die and you can own the road!!! Wooohaaa!

jeff-o - "All of the obviously hardcore cyclist commuters have lights (including myself)."
I think this is my favorite one. Jeff-O is hardcore! He can clean any climb, huck any cliff, win any TDF, and commute through any hurricane, and still find time to tell all of the other bicycle enthusiasts out there that they are not hardcore unless they have a light. (sounds like a WalMart commercial preying on kids)

Well, my questions are valid so please answer them. If I didn't ask you a question but still commented about your post, it's because I just couldn't believe my eyes. It does prove though that some people do live in their own little world. I thought my ego was big...I really did.

I-Like-To-Bike

Better yet, how many of those deaths occurred at night and were the result of inadequate visibility?

jeff-o

I define hardcore as, "Panniers, helmet, waterproof jacket, lights, and ankle straps." Basically, anyone who chooses to ride not out of necessity or income, but because they WANT to ride.

And yes, I could kick Lance's butt any day of the week.

ed 

Jeff just redeemed himself...good sport, man! This forum rocks.

DataJunkie

I am not spending any time worrying about other cyclists. My number one concern is my own life. End of story.
Own the road? Wow. That one was out of left field. Try a different insult next time. *yawn*

centexwoody 

difficult to sort out the ignorant from the stupid...

now I have 'unlit' cyclists following me home, I guess because they figure I'm visible and they're not - I don't mind - I love a parade!