trike_guy

So I was cycling to work today in Oslo and I came to a particular intersection. I need to paint a bit of a picture. Its a "T" intersection, from my direction of travel the branched road goes to right, across a two-way bike path and a sidewalk. No bike path on the other side. There is one lane of car traffic each way plus a turn lane for each. Traffic of all kinds is usually substantial.

Anyway bikers and walkers are terrible about respecting red lights almost anywhere in central Oslo, including this intersection. And this intersection has an especially long red for bikers and walkers because there are green turn arrows for each car direction. Walkers and bikers are of course not going to wait, so they go on walking and biking without worrying too much about cars or whatever the traffic signals might be doing. Today I as I approached I saw that an arc of three cars was turning across the bike path and walking path, but the first car had been intimidated into stopping by people walking (can never be sure if people will stop for the cars, green or red), and now the green arrow was over, and the arc of cars was blocking the intersection (while people walked in front of them). Horns were sounded and the cars started to move forward. A kitted-out biker tried to push through the cars and made gestures to the driver (stuck in the intersection) who inconvenienced him. The cars cleared out, kitted-out bikers went from each side, and there I sat absorbing the scene. Then another biker (kitted-out) passed by me from my direction and yelled "idiot" at me (kind words for a fellow biker). You see the light was green for me now, but I was so used to bikers and walkers going on red, and so fascinated by the scene, that I didn't notice.

fietsbob

was the driver intimidated or just Courteous, after all sitting in the car you are seated in a heated place,
whats a couple minutes here and there?

the cyclist seemed a bit less courteous maybe the home stress,
or the boss on his back / late or paid piecework doing deliveries..

life is a carnival

PatrickGSR94

Was this at Nedre Kalbakkvei and Bedriftsveíen by chance?

Was just looking at it on Google and thought it sounded like the layout you described.

spare_wheel

i read through your long description and it did not sound like anything especially dangerous occurred. if motor vehicle traffic is stopped it makes sense for cyclists and pedestrians to proceed regardless of signal priority. moreover, as active transport becomes increasingly important, increasing disobedience of discriminatory motorist-centric traffic statutes also makes sense. i personally applaud this kind of "take back the streets" behavior by pedestrians and cyclists.

RPK79

I take it from your description of how events unfolded that being "kitted-out" is somehow significant?

trike_guy

I'm fascinated and annoyed by the inability of Norwegian bikers to: (1) bike according to rules (2) wear or ride anything practical.

RPK79

What is "practical" to wear while riding a bike?

trike_guy

For short rides, its street clothes. Most of these people are not going all that far, based on the people I know.

RPK79

Who are you to decide what is and what isn't practical or at what duration of ride certain clothing becomes practical?

Maybe they don't want their work clothes to get dirty? Maybe they don't want to risk long pants getting caught in the chain? Maybe they ride hard and don't want to sweat through their work clothing? Perhaps they wear cycling specific clothing to stand out and be more noticeable to the drivers? Maybe a hundred other reasons...

Judging people based on what they wear is close minded and screams of ignorance and bigotry.

trike_guy

Munkedamsveien by Sjøgata, right near at the Oslo-center end of the big "tour de finance" coastal commute route.

A person could ponder the Google street view for some time. The two-way bike path crosses the road on a crosswalk-looking thing, for example. Is this done in other countries, or just Norway? Also now I see there seems to be a single-lane bike path on the other side, which integrates smoothly with the crosswalk-looking area crossing the main road, and not with the sidewalk. Hard to tell what is for foot traffic and what is for pedaled traffic.

I-Like-To-Bike

I find tricycles less practical for any adult without physical or mental difficulties. But when I see one, I am neither fascinated nor annoyed; actually couldn't care less.

RPK79

Funny you say that because the only adult tricycles I see in my neck of the woods are owned by an elderly woman and a mentally challenged young man.

acidfast7

I like Oslo a lot.

I just applied for a job there.

Let's see how it goes as I'm one of the finalists!

trike_guy

I can guess what you wear!

I stand quite firm with my assertion that a great deal of them are dressed impractical and ride impractical. Very little utility to be seen on bike or rider. Its true I can't pick any one out as being impractical because I don't know what any individual is up to, but I can make generalizations about most of them being impractical because I know most of them are not doing epic training-commutes daily.

acidfast7

I agree with you and laugh at people that wear tons of special clothing!

trike_guy

Well the guy who called me an idiot this morning probably thought I was one or the other of those!

RPK79

Well I don't commute by bike so what I wear when riding has zero bearing. If I were to commute by bike though and it were any distance over a couple of miles I would probably wear cycling specific clothing whether you deem it practical or not. Simply because it would be the most practical for me.

trike_guy

Good luck, its an interesting place. Are you in Copenhagen now (saw CPH on your location)? I think its mostly a nicer place, but its hard to have that viewpoint without trying both. Oslo is sort of like Copenhagen, but feels like a lot of USA has been mixed in too.

acidfast7

I work 50% in England and 50% in CPH. I also lived 3 years in Stockholm.

Oslo is quite interesting. CPH is very continental. Oslo is unique!

trike_guy

I'm kind of curious to know how changing clothes to ride a couple miles is practical for anyone. (That said I will soon be attending to some business and unable to respond today.)

RPK79

Note I said over a couple of miles.

trike_guy

I think I must be fairly innocent from almost 5 years commuting in Copenhagen, but I thought it was kind of a remarkable display of chaos, inefficiency, rudeness, and lack of understanding of the concerns of fellow commuters. Not some idealistic "take back the streets" movement at all. There are virtually no active idealists in the world, IMHO.

acidfast7

Good luck with him or most people on this forum if you've cycled in CPH for 5 years

I live at Gråbrødretorv and the cycling in CPH is epic! No one here will understand

Especially, not people based in the states!

spare_wheel

With all due respect, I do not think Danish rigidity when it comes to traffic laws is necessarily admirable.

I much prefer the dutch approach -- if a light is red and motorists are absent (or hesitant) then everyone just does a *RED WAVE*.

A nice discussion here:
Bakfiets en Meer » Blog Archive » Close Encounters of the Amsterdam Police Kind

acidfast7

you have no idea of what you speak