Intermittent Buzzing Sound From Front End
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,115
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Liked 364 Times
in
227 Posts
Intermittent Buzzing Sound From Front End
Greetings, cycling geniuses. I am currently riding a one year-old BMC SLR02. The only previous issue I have had was some buzzing form the front of the bike, which turned out to be a loose valve nut, if that's what you call it. It was quiet for several months, then louder buzzing/rattling appeared from the front end, or so it seemed. It basically sounds like a giant Jew's Harp being played. It is only heard when riding over rough pavement and is silent when on smooth pavement. It is heard both when pedaling and when coasting. It is intermittent. Interestingly to me, I never hear it in the first few minutes of a ride ever. It's only after I've been going for a bit that is appears. Once it gets going, it stays going until the ride is over or I am just on smooth pavement. I have also never heard it when in the lowest (easiest) gears. It seems the bike has to be moving at a certain pace for this sound to really show up. I have reproduced it a couple of times by picking up the front wheel and dropping it. But most of the time, when doing this maneuver, you will not be able to produce the sound. Oh, and applying the front brake and rocking the front wheel does not produce this sound either.
I have checked every bolt in the cockpit, the brakes, the wheel, and the hub. Everything is snug. I closely inspected the forks, steerer tube, front end of the down tube, and no cracks are visible. Have checked the cables where I can see them (bike has internal routing). Have made sure the valve nut is tight and that the valve does not appear to have any play in its positioning at the aperture. All spokes seem to have reasonable tension and the nipples seem to be in the right place and not loose. I have picked up the front wheel and shaken the heck out of it and I hear no loose debris moving around in the wheel. The QR is snug, though I undid it and re-did it and the sound persisted. And last, I can't recreate this sound by manipulating the shifters/brake levers.
So, given all that, I am wondering what next steps might seem reasonable. I am no bike mechanic. I can do the very basics, but I certainly have never taken apart a hub before. What suggestions might you have for me? It is really annoying to be trying to enjoy a nice ride on this terrific bike, but constantly be distracted by this buzzing. I don't like to wear earphones when riding. But this morning, the noise was so annoying I just had to put them in so I could escape it. Any help is greatly appreciated. Oh, and lastly, these wheels are Aksiums. I have never personally heard a Mavic Death Squeal, but from reading about it, this does not seem to be remotely similar sounding. Thanks in advance.
I have checked every bolt in the cockpit, the brakes, the wheel, and the hub. Everything is snug. I closely inspected the forks, steerer tube, front end of the down tube, and no cracks are visible. Have checked the cables where I can see them (bike has internal routing). Have made sure the valve nut is tight and that the valve does not appear to have any play in its positioning at the aperture. All spokes seem to have reasonable tension and the nipples seem to be in the right place and not loose. I have picked up the front wheel and shaken the heck out of it and I hear no loose debris moving around in the wheel. The QR is snug, though I undid it and re-did it and the sound persisted. And last, I can't recreate this sound by manipulating the shifters/brake levers.
So, given all that, I am wondering what next steps might seem reasonable. I am no bike mechanic. I can do the very basics, but I certainly have never taken apart a hub before. What suggestions might you have for me? It is really annoying to be trying to enjoy a nice ride on this terrific bike, but constantly be distracted by this buzzing. I don't like to wear earphones when riding. But this morning, the noise was so annoying I just had to put them in so I could escape it. Any help is greatly appreciated. Oh, and lastly, these wheels are Aksiums. I have never personally heard a Mavic Death Squeal, but from reading about it, this does not seem to be remotely similar sounding. Thanks in advance.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
Brake cable end hitting the tire?
Cheers
Cheers
#3
Really Old Senior Member
Maybe a cable vibrating.
Tie a bungie cord lightly around various places on the bike to act as a sound damper. Maybe that'll work.
Tie a bungie cord lightly around various places on the bike to act as a sound damper. Maybe that'll work.
#6
Really Old Senior Member
Is this a disc braked bike. I'd suspect a rotor vibrating??? (having never ridden a DBB)
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 631
Bikes: 2014 Trek Allant drop bar conversion, modified Schwinn MTN commuter, 2015 Trek 520, Soma ES, Salsa Journeyman, 1980 Trek 414
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 178 Post(s)
Liked 355 Times
in
166 Posts
Does the sound go away or change when braking or shifting? I'm thinking maybe an internal cable rattling. If it only happens at higher speeds, the cable going to rear derailleur would be more slack in these gears, maybe being more prone to rattling on rough terrain. See if you can shift and add cable tension and listen for a change maybe.
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,115
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Liked 364 Times
in
227 Posts
Does the sound go away or change when braking or shifting? I'm thinking maybe an internal cable rattling. If it only happens at higher speeds, the cable going to rear derailleur would be more slack in these gears, maybe being more prone to rattling on rough terrain. See if you can shift and add cable tension and listen for a change maybe.
#9
Really Old Senior Member
Does the sound go away or change when braking or shifting? I'm thinking maybe an internal cable rattling. If it only happens at higher speeds, the cable going to rear derailleur would be more slack in these gears, maybe being more prone to rattling on rough terrain. See if you can shift and add cable tension and listen for a change maybe.
Being "retro", that never occurred to me.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
421 Posts
Go around the entire thing and thump or knock on it in various places with your knuckles. See if you can reproduce the buzz that way while the bike is standing still. It's a long shot, but has worked for me on bikes as well as musical instruments.
Likes For Gresp15C:
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
I've fixed many an intermittent buzz on a bicycle because I saw a cable end, derailleur or brake, hitting a tire. The fast the person rode the stronger and louder the buzz. That's why I suggested checking your cable ends. Derailleurs especially can do this with their cables as the derailleur moves closer to the inside the cable contacts the tire but not so strongly or at all as the derailleur moves away from the inside towards the outside of the bike.
Take a STRONG light and carefully check the frame and forks for hairline cracks.
Cheers
Take a STRONG light and carefully check the frame and forks for hairline cracks.
Cheers
Likes For Miele Man:
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
Perhaps an INTERNAL cable hitting the inside of the frame?
Cheers
Cheers
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 256
Bikes: 74 Romic, 83 Basso, Lotto, 88 Condor, Prestige MTB, 12 Soma, Groove
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I've fixed many an intermittent buzz on a bicycle because I saw a cable end, derailleur or brake, hitting a tire. The fast the person rode the stronger and louder the buzz. That's why I suggested checking your cable ends. Derailleurs especially can do this with their cables as the derailleur moves closer to the inside the cable contacts the tire but not so strongly or at all as the derailleur moves away from the inside towards the outside of the bike.
Take a STRONG light and carefully check the frame and forks for hairline cracks.
Cheers
Take a STRONG light and carefully check the frame and forks for hairline cracks.
Cheers
Regards
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,115
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Liked 364 Times
in
227 Posts
Thank you. This is an inside bike, other than when being ridden. I have taken the front wheel off and closely examined the entire frame and see nothing suggesting any kind of defect or crack. What does delamination look like on a frame that's been painted and has decals?
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 256
Bikes: 74 Romic, 83 Basso, Lotto, 88 Condor, Prestige MTB, 12 Soma, Groove
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
You would be able to easily see any delamination, as the clear coat, and paint would be blistered, and/or cracked.
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,115
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Liked 364 Times
in
227 Posts
Well, here's where I am. I have verified that none of the external portions of any cable is causing this sound. All the front spokes/nipples appear fine. There's nothing bouncing around within the wheel. QR seems normal. It's not not the vale nut and I don't think it's the vale either, as it is snugly pushed against the aperture all the way around. I'll still go to the hardware store tomorrow and get some electrical tape and try that trick.
I've carefully tapped the entire frame. It all sounds the same. Took a 1000-lumen light and studied every millimeter of it. Nada. The crankshaft bolts are solid as a rock. Both derailleurs and the hangar are fine. I cannot reproduce the sound by playing with the saddle or seatpost or rear light setup. Went over the headset again. It seems solid.
What I seem to be left with is the good idea one of you had about an internal cable rattling. And the hubs. So, that's my next project.
I do still find it interesting that it seems to only be really prominent when in the higher (harder) gears. I'm not smart enough to know what that means. Is there something wrong with my chain? This def does not sound like chain rub/FD stuff to me. As I say, it actually sounds like a giant Jew's Harp, something between rattling and buzzing.
Will post more after the next set of tests. Thanks to all very much for your time and feedback. Really appreciate it.
I've carefully tapped the entire frame. It all sounds the same. Took a 1000-lumen light and studied every millimeter of it. Nada. The crankshaft bolts are solid as a rock. Both derailleurs and the hangar are fine. I cannot reproduce the sound by playing with the saddle or seatpost or rear light setup. Went over the headset again. It seems solid.
What I seem to be left with is the good idea one of you had about an internal cable rattling. And the hubs. So, that's my next project.
I do still find it interesting that it seems to only be really prominent when in the higher (harder) gears. I'm not smart enough to know what that means. Is there something wrong with my chain? This def does not sound like chain rub/FD stuff to me. As I say, it actually sounds like a giant Jew's Harp, something between rattling and buzzing.
Will post more after the next set of tests. Thanks to all very much for your time and feedback. Really appreciate it.
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,115
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Liked 364 Times
in
227 Posts
Aha! Thank you. I will explore that this afternoon. Where exactly do you think the problem is on the shifters and where are you pressing precisely?
#21
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,115
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Liked 364 Times
in
227 Posts
UPDATE: I have looked into everything mentioned by all the brilliant people who offered suggestions. And here is what happened. Nothing seemed to pan out. I was so disappointed, but still determined. The more I looked into people dealing with various noises on different road bikes, the more clear it became how hard it can be to isolate the problem. It was driving me insane, but I continued to ride through it.
Yesterday, on a part of a route I commonly use, there is a two-block length of pavement that is just thrashed. Totally cracked and broken and lumpy-bumpy. It's a joke. I usually slow down a bit, but the bike still jiggles and bounces and vibrates wildly. The buzzing/rattling went crazy. I went crazy. Turned my head to the side and tried again to figure out just where it was coming from. For the first time, it seemed like maybe it was emanating from someplace right beneath me and not on the front end. I thought about it and then, reached down and grabbed my downtube water bottle and cage and held them motionless and firmly. Presto!! Rattle gone.
I got home and it certainly seems like the cage was well bolted-in. The bolts were definitely snug, but, I must say, not as snug as I would have made them on aluminum or steel. So, maybe I was a bit wimpy in the cage installation. In any case, I removed the cage and went for a long ride over smallish potholes and lots of crappy, bumpy, pavement surface and the bike was silent. The question then is, can I even have a bottle cage on the downtube? I sure would like to. There was no direction on the cages (carbon fiber) as to how many Newtons to tighten them to, so I just did them 'til they were snug but not so much that they might damage the downtube. The bolts appear to be in excellent condition and the bike was brand-new when the cages were installed. Does anyone have a suggestion about what I ought to do when I try to reinstall the cage? Are there any tricks that might somewhow reduce the chance of this rattling recurring. Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread--I really appreciate it.
Yesterday, on a part of a route I commonly use, there is a two-block length of pavement that is just thrashed. Totally cracked and broken and lumpy-bumpy. It's a joke. I usually slow down a bit, but the bike still jiggles and bounces and vibrates wildly. The buzzing/rattling went crazy. I went crazy. Turned my head to the side and tried again to figure out just where it was coming from. For the first time, it seemed like maybe it was emanating from someplace right beneath me and not on the front end. I thought about it and then, reached down and grabbed my downtube water bottle and cage and held them motionless and firmly. Presto!! Rattle gone.
I got home and it certainly seems like the cage was well bolted-in. The bolts were definitely snug, but, I must say, not as snug as I would have made them on aluminum or steel. So, maybe I was a bit wimpy in the cage installation. In any case, I removed the cage and went for a long ride over smallish potholes and lots of crappy, bumpy, pavement surface and the bike was silent. The question then is, can I even have a bottle cage on the downtube? I sure would like to. There was no direction on the cages (carbon fiber) as to how many Newtons to tighten them to, so I just did them 'til they were snug but not so much that they might damage the downtube. The bolts appear to be in excellent condition and the bike was brand-new when the cages were installed. Does anyone have a suggestion about what I ought to do when I try to reinstall the cage? Are there any tricks that might somewhow reduce the chance of this rattling recurring. Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread--I really appreciate it.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,624
Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
640 Posts
Maybe if you put a rubber O-ring between the cage and the frame where each bolt is would help? I'm thinking that perhaps the O-rings would work like dampeners.
Cheers
Cheers
Likes For Miele Man:
#23
mechanically sound
I’d make a gasket out of an old innertube to go between the cage and the frame.
__________________
Likes For frankenmike:
#24
Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Sorry to laugh.. I had the same, but my carbon bottle cage just needed filing down where the bottle grips 3mm gap to 5mm,sorted, i dont usually have a drink when riding to work so nothing to stop it tapping.
Likes For Levolon:
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Llano Estacado
Posts: 3,702
Bikes: old clunker
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 684 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 105 Times
in
83 Posts
UPDATE: I have looked into everything mentioned by all the brilliant people who offered suggestions. And here is what happened. Nothing seemed to pan out. I was so disappointed, but still determined. The more I looked into people dealing with various noises on different road bikes, the more clear it became how hard it can be to isolate the problem. It was driving me insane, but I continued to ride through it.
Yesterday, on a part of a route I commonly use, there is a two-block length of pavement that is just thrashed. Totally cracked and broken and lumpy-bumpy. It's a joke. I usually slow down a bit, but the bike still jiggles and bounces and vibrates wildly. The buzzing/rattling went crazy. I went crazy. Turned my head to the side and tried again to figure out just where it was coming from. For the first time, it seemed like maybe it was emanating from someplace right beneath me and not on the front end. I thought about it and then, reached down and grabbed my downtube water bottle and cage and held them motionless and firmly. Presto!! Rattle gone.
I got home and it certainly seems like the cage was well bolted-in. The bolts were definitely snug, but, I must say, not as snug as I would have made them on aluminum or steel. So, maybe I was a bit wimpy in the cage installation. In any case, I removed the cage and went for a long ride over smallish potholes and lots of crappy, bumpy, pavement surface and the bike was silent. The question then is, can I even have a bottle cage on the downtube? I sure would like to. There was no direction on the cages (carbon fiber) as to how many Newtons to tighten them to, so I just did them 'til they were snug but not so much that they might damage the downtube. The bolts appear to be in excellent condition and the bike was brand-new when the cages were installed. Does anyone have a suggestion about what I ought to do when I try to reinstall the cage? Are there any tricks that might somewhow reduce the chance of this rattling recurring. Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread--I really appreciate it.
Yesterday, on a part of a route I commonly use, there is a two-block length of pavement that is just thrashed. Totally cracked and broken and lumpy-bumpy. It's a joke. I usually slow down a bit, but the bike still jiggles and bounces and vibrates wildly. The buzzing/rattling went crazy. I went crazy. Turned my head to the side and tried again to figure out just where it was coming from. For the first time, it seemed like maybe it was emanating from someplace right beneath me and not on the front end. I thought about it and then, reached down and grabbed my downtube water bottle and cage and held them motionless and firmly. Presto!! Rattle gone.
I got home and it certainly seems like the cage was well bolted-in. The bolts were definitely snug, but, I must say, not as snug as I would have made them on aluminum or steel. So, maybe I was a bit wimpy in the cage installation. In any case, I removed the cage and went for a long ride over smallish potholes and lots of crappy, bumpy, pavement surface and the bike was silent. The question then is, can I even have a bottle cage on the downtube? I sure would like to. There was no direction on the cages (carbon fiber) as to how many Newtons to tighten them to, so I just did them 'til they were snug but not so much that they might damage the downtube. The bolts appear to be in excellent condition and the bike was brand-new when the cages were installed. Does anyone have a suggestion about what I ought to do when I try to reinstall the cage? Are there any tricks that might somewhow reduce the chance of this rattling recurring. Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread--I really appreciate it.
Likes For AnkleWork: