Originally Posted by Leebo

OP, Safe? Thats everyone's job. Dog walker not paying attention, I pod zombies, parents of wee ones etc. Too fast or just faster than you? Does your mup have a posted speed limit?

Originally Posted by Classtime

I like Jrickards idea of a 12mph limit. All motors off at 12. That seems a pretty safe speed but not much fun. With such safety limits, only people who really need electric assist would buy one.

Originally Posted by Classtime

One of my new job responsibilities (as pointed out earlier) is to be more aware of e bike users so i don't get creamed by one. I know too fast when I see it. I've learned not to go too fast on MUPs. I think some e bike users have not yet experienced what happens when you go too fast. I hope no one gets hurt when they learn how fast is too fast.

Are you suggesting that if there is no posted speed limit, there is no unsafe speed?

Originally Posted by Classtime

I like Jrickards idea of a 12mph limit. All motors off at 12. That seems a pretty safe speed but not much fun. With such safety limits, only people who really need electric assist would buy one.

Originally Posted by jrickards

As I see it, I don't think the laws have really addressed them. They can be used like a bike (pedalled, with or without electric assist) and, in North America, they have a throttle like a motorbike (gas- or electric-powered). There are styles that look like bicycles and there are styles that look like scooters. Unlike bicycles, they can easily be ridden at up to 20mph/32kph by anyone of any level of fitness which means that they are faster than most cyclists, especially commuters with heavier bikes and heavier loads. Unlike motorbikes, they cannot be ridden faster than 20mph/32kph so they cannot keep up with traffic most of the time so if they took the lane all of the time, they would slow that lane.

Unlike operators of "real" motorized vehicles, for which there is licencing and training involved, anyone (including those who have had their licences suspended because of DUI, now you know why there are so many parked outside bars) can buy and operate ebikes: just buy the ebike and a helmet (in Ontario, there is no option for adults not to use helmets, unlike bicycles) and off you go.

The laws have addresses some aspects of ebikes: they must have pedals (even the scooter-style ones), they are limited to 20mph/32kph and the operator must wear a helmet (there may be specific helmet rules too but I'm not aware of them) but (as far as I know) the laws in Ontario have not addressed whether or not they can use cycling infrastructure. (I've seen one fellow a couple of times, riding on the boulevard!) Our city has recently amended a bylaw to allow cycling on certain specified boulevards, the idea behind this is to help the city's road department more quickly develop cycling infrastructure by taking existing wide boulevards or modifying existing boulevards to bike-lane width and making them official cycling infrastructure. Unless ebikes are forbidden in law or bylaw from using cycling infrastructure, then we may see them on these boulevards, potentially travelling at 32kph beside pedestrians. We really only have a couple of MUPs in town but would an ebike be allowed on these with cyclists, pedestrians, children and dog walkers?

Personally, I would like to see throttle controlled ebikes modified as follows: no pedals (apparently, the ones installed are a joke anyway and if you make a moderately leaned turn, you could hit the pedal on the ground thereby losing control), licenced (both the bike and the user), forbidden from using cycling infrastructure. Or, like Europe, forbidden for sale. Secondly, I would like to see pedal-assist ebikes: limited to 12mph/20kph (which I think is plenty fast for a commuter or casual rider), allowed for use on cycling infrastructure and helmets required for all ages (given that a casual cyclist might only be able to cycle at 10-15kph under their own power, pedal-assist ebikes would enable them to travel faster than their fitness would otherwise enable them to do).

In this scenario, I would be comfortable sharing the cycling infrastructure with pedal-assist ebikes and the road with throttled ebikes.

Originally Posted by jrickards

If they want to go faster, they could buy a motorbike.

I'm considering a pedal-assist for my wife so that we can go on bike tours together. It would allow us to go the distances that I am capable of doing but at an effort she is capable of doing. I saw a series of videos on YouTube of a couple (who are about our age, early- to mid-fifties who are doing tours in SE Asia, both with ebikes).

Originally Posted by 350htrr

I like the EU new standard that is supposed to be coming soon, the faster you go the less assist you get, and at 32Km/Hr you get none... That totally eliminates any abuse of the E-powered bicycle, and makes it a "real bicycle" but allows people to ride who wouldn't/couldn't, without the assist...

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Originally Posted by alan s

500 watts and capable of 28 mph is right up there with the pro peleton. Doesn't pass the smell test.

BionX D-500 DV, 700C/29? wheel, rim or disc brakes - Electric Cyclery

Originally Posted by noglider

The laws around e-bikes in NYC are complex, inconsistent, and incomprehensible. Many believe they are entirely illegal, which they are not.

I can't think of a solution on the MUPs. I think a speed limit of 20 mph might work, but that's pretty fast, and there are times when it's too fast. E-bikes can go a lot faster than that.

In the streets, I'm fine with e-bikes in the regular traffic lanes and in the bike lanes.

We really should sort this out, because the last couple of years have portended a big increase in their use. I think that would be a good thing, but let's get the laws straightened out. Mopeds came into NYC in about 1975, and they were unregulated until they were regulated. First, there were too many of them, with kids driving them recklessly. Then they were gone, which was also a shame.

Originally Posted by alan s

500 watts and capable of 28 mph is right up there with the pro peleton. Doesn't pass the smell test.

BionX D-500 DV, 700C/29? wheel, rim or disc brakes - Electric Cyclery

Originally Posted by kickstart

That's a class 3 speed E- moped setup.

By legal definition:

Class 1, 750w, & 20 mph max, Pas only. = E-assist bicycle
Class 2, 750w & 20 mph max, pas & throttle. = E-assist bicycle


Class 3, 28 mph max pas and/or throttle. =. E-moped.

Originally Posted by RunForTheHills

Wow, $2500 for just the wheel and battery. That begs the question: If there are different classes of electric conversion kits and no clear markings on the bike of what class of kit it has installed, how will the law be enforced? Are police supposed to keep a list of different conversion kits and their capabilities?

Originally Posted by alan s

Yup. Basically a 1 horsepower motor strapped to a bike. As they say, "neck-snapping acceleration."

Originally Posted by RunForTheHills

Wow, $2500 for just the wheel and battery. That begs the question: If there are different classes of electric conversion kits and no clear markings on the bike of what class of kit it has installed, how will the law be enforced? Are police supposed to keep a list of different conversion kits and their capabilities?

Originally Posted by InTheRain

Actually I can go faster on my road bike than I can go on my ebike. Ebike cuts off assistance at 20mph, after that it's all me pushing an 80 lbs bike. I top out at about 22mph for about 300 yards.

Originally Posted by alan s

Yup. Basically a 1 horsepower motor strapped to a bike. As they say, "neck-snapping acceleration."

Originally Posted by alan s

500 watts and capable of 28 mph is right up there with the pro peleton. Doesn't pass the smell test.

BionX D-500 DV, 700C/29? wheel, rim or disc brakes - Electric Cyclery