steve0257

At first I was going to say motorized bicycle until I saw how fast they could go. Those are probably motorcycles.

In Minnesota a rough guide is, e-bike, required to pedal and motor shuts off at 20 mph; motorized bicycle, includes mopeds, the motor will not propel you faster than 30 mph;and everything else is motorcycle.

MikeyMK

Enjoy this picturr of my old, slower e-bike doing a scrap-run, and bear in mind that even in that state it was able to do 40mph uphill...

Nermal

Only if being chased by that stegosaurus in the background.

livedarklions

So what's your point? First of all, I'm not talking about a bike and trailer, I'm talking about a mass-produced bicycle that has the capacity built into the frame.

Second of all, I've never seen anything quite like that rig capable of those kind of speeds in the U.S. I'm sure they exist somewhere, but they're clearly not common around these parts.

Third, can't speak for UK conditions, but that rig would pose a huge hazard on an American MUP and should never be allowed IMO. It's a heavy motorized vehicle, exactly the sort of thing MUPs are supposed to exclude.

MikeyMK

Ah, you mean like this?

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGDqT8OXYAA6KgE.jpg

I agree to a point, there surely comes a line where something is too large to transport on a cycleway. But that's what we have laws for, and as long as a vehicle fits within the law, then there's no problem.

In my case sense was practiced more than i let on - the bike with trailer was in road legal mode. It was limited to 250w, 15.5mph and pedal assist. I did go slowly (very, on occasion) and i was courteous to other users of the path.

Once you venture into what 'some' people 'can' do then that points to the guy who blasted past me recently on a blatantly stolen motorbike. It is a question of what is legal, and when the ice cream trike below is legal, then a power assisted one to legal specification is legal too, and there lies the subject of where you may wish to begin speculating on boundaries.

[IMG]https://www.cargobike.co.uk/wp-conte...8187273669.jpg

livedarklions

Not the case in Mass., where I do most of my path riding. While electric bikes are allowed in bike lanes, they are not legal on bike paths. The ice cream bike would probably be legal on the path (as long as it didn't park there), but none of the electric rigs would be. I didn't know it at the time, but the cargo bikes I saw on the Minuteman were there illegally.

What is pretty funny is that a lot of the towns along the Minuteman have set up ebike rental kiosks very close to the path and I don't think the tourists necessarily know that taking them on the path is illegal.

mr_bill

In Massachusetts, the law has not kept up. But you are quite incorrect that e-bikes are *illegal*. The operating laws are just currently *silent* on them.

That's part of why we have *pilot* programs for e-bike shares. (And Brookline's new *pilot* for e-scooters.)

Last year the RMV determined that e-bikes are NOT a motor vehicle or a moped. So the signs "NO MOTOR VEHICLES" on the Minuteman do *NOT* apply to e-bikes.

But rules for operating e-bikes (and e-scooters) don't exist and are hopefully coming soonish, but never underestimate the ability of the General Court to dissemble.

In the meantime, Arlington on e-bikes on the Minuteman:

"Captain Richard Flynn of the Arlington Police Department told the Advocate that e-bikes are allowed on the Minuteman Bikeway in Arlington but could not speak for other communities."

The Arlington Select Board *just* endorsed HB.3014/S.2071.


A friend a bit older than me WHO LOVES TO RIDE BIKES calls their new e-bike "a godsend, a fountain of youth." It allows them to ride up the hills that are getting steeper, and to face the winds that are getting stronger. When you pass them on the Minuteman, you might wave. They might wave back.

-mr. bill

livedarklions

Thanks! I am now completely confused, because different sources are saying very different things. Your credibility on this is wayyyyyyy higher than mine.

I tend to think light e-bikes used as normal rider/bike combo are pretty harmless on paths, and I've had very pleasant interactions with the types of riders you're describing. I just don't think regulations are catching up to how much weight can go how fast using a 750 watt motor, and how that could totally change the character of, for example, Minuteman traffic..

mr_bill

I don't think people realize how much weight can go how fast using a 150 watt motor (aka human). There are a lot of people on cargo bikes on the Minuteman carrying families these days, with only a few of them with e-assisted.

-mr. bill

livedarklions

I've seen that, but I think they're not getting anywhere near 20 mph on anything but a very steep hill. I generally don't see those getting much into the double digits (if that) on a path. That difference in velocity squared makes the motorized heavy a lot more dangerous.

There's a sort of whataboutism that seems to pop up whenever I point out that the motorization affects other relevant safety factors besides speed, and I don't think it's logical--this somewhat hazardous thing is already on the MUP, so why not let this new one get there? Eventually, that logic doesn't let you prohibit cars. This is about drawing somewhat sensible boundaries, not coming up with perfect ones.

BTW, the example I would use if I were arguing "the other side" would be a well-trained tandem team. That's pretty heavy and fast.

enveous

This kind of blatant misinformation makes this forum very difficult to read.

/sarcasm

(That's a Tricerotops.)

livedarklions

Those definitely need to be speed limited on the bike path.

mr_bill

p = mv

Mass times Velocity. Not Mass times Velocity times Velocity.

Anyhow, Amsterdam banned scooters (blue plate, yellow plate already banned) this week from the bike paths inside A-10. They will begin warning this Monday for a period of one month, and then issue tickets. (Maybe. It's Amsterdam after all, plus the enforcement officers are on strike refusing to recognize the ban.)

But e-bikes and electric assisted cargo bikes are still welcome there.

-mr. bill

livedarklions

KE = 0.5 × m × v^2.

UniChris

Triceratops commuter vs. jersey barrier choke point, on the next episode of "what if?"

livedarklions

i....am....so...in!!!!!!

mr_bill

Although disputed, top speed of the English Triceratops according to BBC Earth is 26 kph (about 16 mph). However, the Gordon Triceratops is claimed to be able to exceed 20 mph.

Useful information to know while pedalling across the Bridge of Death.

-mr. bill

livedarklions

SOURCE: Dinosaur Strava.

Didn't Gordon Triceratops play for the Celtics?

Nachoman

Not this one. As I recall this one weighs in the low 20s.

Glenhollow

BlazingPedals, Your comment is spot on! I ride an e-bike now due to nerve damage in my legs. I can go 28mph, but I don't feel safe at that speed. When I go on the local trails I ride about 14 mph with pedal assist. That is what feels good for me. You can't go much faster than that, you are putting pedestrians and yourself at risk if you do.