iTrod

Well I've got a house rented in Montigny-le-Brettonneux for August '19, so I am starting to worry about the details. I just notched my first 1200k in Blue Ridge to Bay and am feeling strong...but PBP appears to be a completely different animal. Controles every 100K or so. No drop bag service: do folks wear the same kit for the entire ride? Where to resupply? Lines for food, lines for beds, lines to have controle cards stamped, lines for showers...it seems a perfect storm for inefficiency and unwanted energy expenditure. I need to know how to do this thang!

So, I guess I am asking advice from PBP veterans regarding how to thrive on this epic adventure. Understanding that there is not a single formula that works for everyone, I am sure that the newbies amongst us will benefit from the advice of the Anciens and Anciennes out there.

atwl77

I just want to chime in and say that I'm interested to hear from the veterans too.

For the lack of drop bag service, I'm conditioning myself for it by being fully self-sufficient on my brevets and not rely on it. Not sure how to deal with the lines and crowds though. But one particular issue that I foresee will be a significant obstacle for me, being from a country with equatorial climate, will be the cold. Not sure if anyone here will be able to advise on that, but would be appreciated if available.

Edit: Another thing I'd like to hear about is accommodations, for example do you book a hotel for the entire duration, or do you checkout before riding and then booking a new room after the ride; do you need to look for hotels with specific accommodations (e.g. will they let you take the bike into the room), any tips, do's and don't with luggage and so on.

GadgetGirlIL

You might want to check out a YouTube series by Eric Norris to get some tips & tricks. I believe he has 5 videos up thus far. Here is the link to the first one:

Machka 

I've done the PBP twice. Completed it in 2003. DNF'd in 2007.

In 2003, I didn't use a bag drop. I kept a spare pair of shorts and jersey in my rear bag. In 2007 ... we made use of the Australian bag drops, but just kept pretty much a spare pair of shorts and jersey in there.

Regarding the cold, bring a long-sleeved merino or polypro, and the best rain jacket you can find. Also headband to keep your ears warm and full-fingered gloves.

Both times, I did everything at the controls.

In 2003, people said I'd never ride alone. Hahahahaha! I left at the back of my group, and within about 10 minutes, I was all by myself out there. It took a little while before the next group caught me, and I ended up riding with a small group of them.

Small groups are good. You can work together. Put one person in the food line while one goes off and fills bottles and the other uses the toilet, then switch.

I married one of the people I met on the 2003 PBP, and am still friends with one of the small group I rode with.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/machka...57602327323190

rhm

Have you watched Eric Norris' youtube series?



Sounds to me like you need to ride an unsupported 1000 asap (LOL 1000km Brevet Info Page) to hone your skills.
[/hint]

kingston 

The 4th video is by-far the most informative. I didn't realize that the 84 hour riders were the only ones who start in the morning.

ThermionicScott 

"Too early?" You've made a lot more arrangements than I did 13 months out from PBP 2015. I hadn't even ridden a 600k at that point, let alone 1200k.

But my path to doing it had started in about 2011 when I read about PBP on Sheldon Brown's site and hearing chatter on BF. It occurred to me that I was in a good time of life to do it, with a supportive girlfriend (now wife) and enough vacation time from our jobs, but no kids. So we started mentally "blocking off" 2015 for the big trip.

unterhausen

iTrod is ahead of me too, I dnf'ed the 1200k he finished. Of all the things I learned at PBP, the main one was that I should have ridden a 1200k before I went. But really, all this would have taught me is sleeping. I had no plan for sleeping the third night, which was really bad. Most of us aren't going to ride straight through. In contrast to most 1200k's, PBP is very free-form. You can sleep at any of the 37 (okay, only 19) controls, and it's not a problem to sleep in a ditch as long as it's not too close to the road. Which would also be okay, but one of your fellow riders has probably relieved himself there. Also, practice using a toilet without a seat.

I think I like the 90 hour start for the tradition and riding with the mass of people.
If I go back, my thought is that I will have a drop bag at loudiac, pick up a change of clothes but actually sleep at Saint-Nicholas-du-Pelem (not a control, but they have sleeping) or Carhaix. Loudiac is too busy that first night, and you have to wait for showers and sleeping. Then on the way back, it would depend on when I got there for the second night, but plan on getting a cot at Mortagne-au-Perche for the third sleep stop.

The main thing for me is to have a way to tell how much time I have. And use more time sleeping at controls, and less time sleeping in ditches and on the floor of cafeteria.

Here's a pro tip, don't sleep in the corner of a cafeteria. When you wake up, you will be surrounded by sleeping people so it will be hard to get out.

Also, if you get behind on time, keep going. They are forgiving, or at least they have been.

In Villaines, let the school kid carry your tray. Much better service.

atwl77

Yeah, the 4th video packed a lot of good info. I'm conflicted between choosing 84h and 90h....... I'd prefer the smaller crowd at all the critical points (controles, food, sleep, toilet, etc) and like the morning start better, since that's what we do over here...... but on the other hand, the +6h might be a good thing and if a lot of people are taking 90h, also means if anyone I know are going, higher chances they're going to go 90h too.

But eh..... seems too early to think about this particular point right now. Need to get SR first, then 1000k in September and evaluate my time... then prequalify and decide.

kingston 

I came across this write up of one person's 2015 PBP experience that sounds pretty good to me if I am ever able to attempt the ride.

• Sunday overnight in SQY
• Monday night in Loudéac ~280 mi
• Tuesday night in Loudéac ~490 mi (Δ 210 mi)
• Wednesday night in Villaines ~630 mi (Δ 140 mi)
• Finish on Thursday ~770 mi (Δ 140 mi)

I guess this is a pretty standard 84 hour plan. The Sunday night start doesn't appeal to me as much, and I wouldn't be too worried about finding people to ride with in the 84 hour start group.

unterhausen

If you did the 84 hour start, loudeac would probably work just fine, because you miss the crowds. I have heard people that say going beyond there is best the first day on the 90 hour start.

The people that I met that had done the 84 hour start seemed pretty happy about their choice. Being out of the big mass of people has to be a time advantage. I did a much harder 1200k in 85 hours, so I feel like I could do it.

clasher

I've put my PBP thoughts on the back burner for now. Depending on how I do on the coulee challenge that will determine what way I go or if I even go. The 84 hour start does appeal to me, I usually have a hard time riding through the whole night.

Come winter I might look at doing some brevets in Florida or someplace else to qualify early.

unterhausen

I didn't have any problem riding through the night, but sometime in the morning the second day it all just fell apart. I tried to sleep in a ditch and couldn't. I wasn't falling asleep on the bike, but I was so tired it hurt. I think that was the most miserable I have been on a ride. Well, until the 4th day Didn't last that long though, couple of hours later I was fine.

kingston 

Last night I watched and enjoyed campyonlyguy's youtube documentary from his PBP 2015 experience, 84h rider with the first two nights in Loudéac and the last night in Mortagne. I thought it was interesting that he arrived in Brest at 34h and finished in just under 80h, so even accounting for the extra night, the pace really drops on the second half.

.

rhm

The total amount of climbing on the BRB 1200 that I rode a month ago is said to be about the same as PBP. It was a fair amount of climbing, and I suppose we all groan a little when we see a hill, but really the climbing was no big deal. The most difficult thing about the ride, in my opinion, was getting by with so little sleep. Two or three hours of sleep is just not enough.

I finished BRB in just under 89 hours. I lost at least an hour to "bonus miles" (I took a wrong turn and rode several miles before recognizing my mistake; and later that day four of us did something similar) and I spent some time waiting for the impromptu "team" I had joined. But even without that "lost" time I have a hard time imagining finishing in 84 or 80 hours.

I suppose the timing of the BRB was dictated by the placement of the "overnights," especially the last one. To finish earlier I would have had to begin that last day earlier, and sleep seemed more important. As I look back on it now, it sounds like it would have been so easy to get up a couple hours earlier that day, not get lost, and finish in 84 hours... but at the time my priorities were elsewhere.

skiffrun

I've not ridden anything beyond a 600, but who needs an 84 hour start time? 88h55 is much better: https://adrianhandssociety.com/
(looks as if Ende may have updated/improved the website some)

Here is a thing about Adrian Hands.
To get into the Society, you need that PBP finish time of 88h55, but Adrian was not really about riding slowly, he was about ENJOYING the ride, and EVERY local non-rando cyclist that I have met that mentioned Adrian has indicated that the thing they remember about Adrian is this one simple thing:

Though Adrian had done everything (well, okay, many) things on a bike, Adrian was ALWAYS interested in hearing what the other cyclist thought, even people who had "never done anything." Being interested in what other cyclists thought and/or had done is perhaps as important as his legacy of getting full joy out of every ride.

I doubt Adrian ever had a plan. If you don't believe that, read his write-up of his 2003 PBP ride AND his write-up of his Bulgaria "1200". https://cycling.ahands.org/pbp2003/fini.html (and I can't locate the Bulgaria write-up)


Disclosure(s): I never met Adrian, but I did exchange several emails with him (perhaps more than several). I have ridden with Ian, and have heard a number of Adrian stories, most not from Ian, including:

(1) showing up at a brevet start, having ridden 15 or 20 miles to get there, without any water bottles. When that was pointed out to him, Adrian's response was "I'll find water somewhere."

(2) having completed a Fleche that ended at the NC Outer Banks, Adrian asked a fellow NC rando if he could catch a ride home. After hearing "Adrian, why didn't you mention that you needed a ride BEFORE we started / arranged our car transportation to get back to Raleigh/Durham; I'm really sorry, but there is absolutely no room," Adrian is said to have responded, "that's okay, I'll just ride back." [I can assure you from my own Raleigh to the Outer Banks Fleche experience that it is at least 360-kms each way.]

rhm

Well crap, we finished the BRB in 88:48. So you're telling me: if I'd waited seven minutes longer I'd quality for the Adrian Hands society? I could have done that. Oh, well... I'll try harder next time.

iTrod

Another consideration when comparing BRB performance to PBP is distance: PBP is about 15 miles longer. As a first-timer, I am going for the 90 hour start (if given to opportunity to ride) even though I hate the idea of an evening start where sleep deprivation will be a more significant factor. I doubt many of us will be able to sleep during the day before departure. Thankfully, the house I am renting is two miles from the velodrome, so I may attempt some extended naps before riding over.

ThermionicScott 

I've heard of people stopping and waiting by the entrance to the SQY velodrome in order to stretch out their time to qualify for Adrian Hands. (I might have even witnessed a few, but my recollection at that stage is not to be trusted.)

Seems to miss the point...

downtube42

You have a year to get faster. Do that. Unless you're chasing some finish time, speed = sleep. Speed also allows you to put time in the bank, which reduces stress. Lower stress means better sleep. Better sleep leads to being faster.

The converse is also true. Being slow and close to the clock is a vicious downward spiral. The back of the pack is where the real suffering is at PBP.

Things are going to happen - flats, cold, rain, heat, headwind, stomach issues, confusion, sleep deprivation, mechanicals, pain, etc. Not all perhaps, but some. You don't want to face all these things for the first time while at PBP. IMO, that's why you need qualifiers.

Lines can be avoided. Again, speed will get you ahead of the pack. Picking the cold food line when there's a long line for hot food is an easy tradeoff. I'm repeating myself, but the more you can sleep, the more you'll have your wits about you at the controls, and that's an advantage over most everyone else.

Machka 

I would have to agree that for the PBP, you want to be a reasonably fast rider. You don't have to be able to knock of a 600K in 24 hours or anything, but if you're doing 600K in 39 hours with a couple hours of sleep, you'll want to spend the year picking up the pace.

And much of that has to do with sleep time.

Most of my 1200s have been done with 5-8 hours of sleep in total, and I'd rather lean toward the 8 hour end of the range.

Also, yes, things do happen. Among the things mentioned above, there's also the feeling like everything starts to happen in slow motion as time goes by and fatigue sets in.


Tips ...

- go to Europe a week or so before the event to ensure you're on the right time zone.
- do a bit of cycling there to familiarise yourself with signage, roundabouts, etc.
- get as much sleep as you can in the days before the event. Go to bed early, sleep late, nap for several days in a row. For all my long distance rides, I've found this is very helpful.
- if you're going to spend a day walking around Paris, get some walking in before you go over. A couple months out, start walking several km every few days in preparation. Walking uses different muscles and if you "do Paris" a couple days before the PBP without having done much walking in advance, you could find yourself a bit sore.
- if hills are a problem for you, stair climbing helps. And hill-repeats, of course.
- the PBP is in kilometres ... get so you feel comfortable with that.
- learn a little bit of French. You don't have to be fluent or anything, but a bit helps.
- be able to ride self-supported as much as possible. While others were spending time hunting for their bags and things, I was freshening up and hitting the road again.
- if you're a liquid nutrition person (Sustained Energy, etc.), train yourself to eat real food by eating more real food on rides. The years I did the PBP there were a lot of mashed potatoes and plain pasta ... and croissants, of course.

unterhausen

Yes and no. There are people like me that are in the society honestly, by being slow. And people that just want to make a statement about not being a speed demon or honoring AH, which are also valid motivations.

There are nearby bars to wait at, very silly to wait at the gates. When I did it, they recorded the time at an electronic arch. I assume that's how Adrian Hand's son got exactly the same time.

unfortunately, you have to do that time on PBP, so it wouldn't have qualified you.

PBP is probably the perfect course for iTrod and I: as climbers, we're really good descenders. Most of the climbing on PBP is what I consider a really big roller. On PBP, there are no stop signs at the bottom of the hill, so you can bomb down hills and then gut it over the top of the next one. And there is always a next one. None of the climbs are bad though, although I remember getting to the top of a hill on the second day in the heat and seeing the next town on the top of the next hill and expressing my discouragement in a way that got all the Americans laughing. The biggest climb is le roc'h trevezel. In 2011, going down the west side was the hardest part. On the way back, the tailwind was so strong I climbed it in my big chain ring. There is nothing like Big Flats or the mountains in Virginia that are on BRB. I feel like BRB is considerably slower than PBP.

I think I got 12 hours of sleep on PBP. Nearly 6 hours in the final 200k. The last ditch nap I took nearly caused me to DNF, but I felt it wasn't safe for me to continue. And I felt great after that nap.

rhm

[QUOTE=ThermionicScott;20420482..
Seems to miss the point...[/QUOTE]

​​​​​Wait... you're saying there is a point to all this?

I'm afraid I had somehow missed that.

unterhausen

first rule of randonneuring: do not think about what you are doing and why you are doing it.

antimonysarah

If one *knows* one will be at the back, does it make sense to pick a *later* start time to be behind some of the bulge? Or does it just get worse the further back you get, period? (I have been and am going to continue to work on speed, but I'm never going to be fast.)