Training Peaks vs. Trainer Road
10-16-13, 11:06 AM
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Training Peaks vs. Trainer Road
Sorry if this has been covered, searched around a little and could not find anything similar.
I see that both programs have training programs, etc. Are they competitive programs or do most people use both? It seems like TrainerRoad is geared to make the hours of indoor training go by faster whereas TrainingPeaks is more analysis and you have to purchase training plans?
Any thoughts?
I see that both programs have training programs, etc. Are they competitive programs or do most people use both? It seems like TrainerRoad is geared to make the hours of indoor training go by faster whereas TrainingPeaks is more analysis and you have to purchase training plans?
Any thoughts?
10-16-13, 01:04 PM
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They are totally different things.
Trainerroad gives you realtime graphs to look at while you follow some training plans it has (which are very similar to plans you find in many of the go-to training books you can buy).
Training peaks is an analysis software, which has features similar to WKO+, golden cheetah, and now strava premium.
You need something to track fitness (I use WKO+ and strava premium), and if you're on the trainer, you need entertainment (I use videos or a 3D VR Trainer workout program, you could use videos and trainer road).
Trainerroad gives you realtime graphs to look at while you follow some training plans it has (which are very similar to plans you find in many of the go-to training books you can buy).
Training peaks is an analysis software, which has features similar to WKO+, golden cheetah, and now strava premium.
You need something to track fitness (I use WKO+ and strava premium), and if you're on the trainer, you need entertainment (I use videos or a 3D VR Trainer workout program, you could use videos and trainer road).
10-16-13, 02:33 PM
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They are totally different things.
Trainerroad gives you realtime graphs to look at while you follow some training plans it has (which are very similar to plans you find in many of the go-to training books you can buy).
Training peaks is an analysis software, which has features similar to WKO+, golden cheetah, and now strava premium.
You need something to track fitness (I use WKO+ and strava premium), and if you're on the trainer, you need entertainment (I use videos or a 3D VR Trainer workout program, you could use videos and trainer road).
Trainerroad gives you realtime graphs to look at while you follow some training plans it has (which are very similar to plans you find in many of the go-to training books you can buy).
Training peaks is an analysis software, which has features similar to WKO+, golden cheetah, and now strava premium.
You need something to track fitness (I use WKO+ and strava premium), and if you're on the trainer, you need entertainment (I use videos or a 3D VR Trainer workout program, you could use videos and trainer road).
10-16-13, 02:42 PM
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Training peaks probably is more in-depth than strava, considering the same people wrote WKO+ which is arguably the gold standard in anaylsys. Strava will show you that power graph, which is very important, as well as calculate TSS and IF and graphs your fitness/freshness chart. 99% of the time that's all the info I ever need, and the other 1% of the time I'd go into WKO+ (or potentially training peaks if I paid for that service, which I don't).
If you're getting started, buy the racing/training with a power meter book and use strava premium for all your tracking.
If you're getting started, buy the racing/training with a power meter book and use strava premium for all your tracking.
10-16-13, 03:51 PM
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Training peaks probably is more in-depth than strava, considering the same people wrote WKO+ which is arguably the gold standard in anaylsys. Strava will show you that power graph, which is very important, as well as calculate TSS and IF and graphs your fitness/freshness chart. 99% of the time that's all the info I ever need, and the other 1% of the time I'd go into WKO+ (or potentially training peaks if I paid for that service, which I don't).
If you're getting started, buy the racing/training with a power meter book and use strava premium for all your tracking.
If you're getting started, buy the racing/training with a power meter book and use strava premium for all your tracking.
10-16-13, 04:13 PM
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I've been using Trainerroad for over a year now. Love it. I've become their unofficial shill, actually.
The main caveat to using it: It's indoor training, so if you hate indoor cycling, you either have to change your tune quick, or fugetabout it.
Other than that, I love it. I actually do most of my training indoors, (M-F) so it works perfectly for me. The concept is stupid simple, but they've really make a sweet interface and good tracking of your performance. When you use it with a Sufferfest video, it's insane how good (and how hard) it is.
The good thing about TR is that you actually DO the workouts. It's one thing to read about FTP, NP, TSS, but a whole different thing to actually execute and do proper power-based workouts. I'll wager that the vast majority of people who own powermeter just use it as a fancy recording device that doesn't change their workouts much. WIth Trainerroad, that will definitely not be true - you'll be doing the FTP test, and then doing workouts based on it. It's very eye opening to see how hard 70%FTP, 80%FTP, 100%FTP, and 120%FTP are and how long you can last at those power ranges. For me, it meant more suffering than what I was used to.
The main caveat to using it: It's indoor training, so if you hate indoor cycling, you either have to change your tune quick, or fugetabout it.
Other than that, I love it. I actually do most of my training indoors, (M-F) so it works perfectly for me. The concept is stupid simple, but they've really make a sweet interface and good tracking of your performance. When you use it with a Sufferfest video, it's insane how good (and how hard) it is.
The good thing about TR is that you actually DO the workouts. It's one thing to read about FTP, NP, TSS, but a whole different thing to actually execute and do proper power-based workouts. I'll wager that the vast majority of people who own powermeter just use it as a fancy recording device that doesn't change their workouts much. WIth Trainerroad, that will definitely not be true - you'll be doing the FTP test, and then doing workouts based on it. It's very eye opening to see how hard 70%FTP, 80%FTP, 100%FTP, and 120%FTP are and how long you can last at those power ranges. For me, it meant more suffering than what I was used to.
10-16-13, 04:27 PM
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I've been using Trainerroad for over a year now. Love it. I've become their unofficial shill, actually.
The main caveat to using it: It's indoor training, so if you hate indoor cycling, you either have to change your tune quick, or fugetabout it.
Other than that, I love it. I actually do most of my training indoors, (M-F) so it works perfectly for me. The concept is stupid simple, but they've really make a sweet interface and good tracking of your performance. When you use it with a Sufferfest video, it's insane how good (and how hard) it is.
The good thing about TR is that you actually DO the workouts. It's one thing to read about FTP, NP, TSS, but a whole different thing to actually execute and do proper power-based workouts. I'll wager that the vast majority of people who own powermeter just use it as a fancy recording device that doesn't change their workouts much. WIth Trainerroad, that will definitely not be true - you'll be doing the FTP test, and then doing workouts based on it. It's very eye opening to see how hard 70%FTP, 80%FTP, 100%FTP, and 120%FTP are and how long you can last at those power ranges. For me, it meant more suffering than what I was used to.
The main caveat to using it: It's indoor training, so if you hate indoor cycling, you either have to change your tune quick, or fugetabout it.
Other than that, I love it. I actually do most of my training indoors, (M-F) so it works perfectly for me. The concept is stupid simple, but they've really make a sweet interface and good tracking of your performance. When you use it with a Sufferfest video, it's insane how good (and how hard) it is.
The good thing about TR is that you actually DO the workouts. It's one thing to read about FTP, NP, TSS, but a whole different thing to actually execute and do proper power-based workouts. I'll wager that the vast majority of people who own powermeter just use it as a fancy recording device that doesn't change their workouts much. WIth Trainerroad, that will definitely not be true - you'll be doing the FTP test, and then doing workouts based on it. It's very eye opening to see how hard 70%FTP, 80%FTP, 100%FTP, and 120%FTP are and how long you can last at those power ranges. For me, it meant more suffering than what I was used to.
I wouldn't say I enjoy training indoors but it works often enough for me since I keep my trainer in the office and can frequently ride in the evenings for an hour or two (not that I've ever ridden two hours on the trainer but this year I'm committed!)
10-16-13, 04:57 PM
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Can you export your rides from trainer road into programs such as Strava or Training Peaks? Come to think of it, I guess this is a silly question since I can also record the ride on my head unit and download from there?
10-16-13, 05:35 PM
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There's a super easy 'export workout' button on TR which will save it as a .tcx or .gpx file (I forgot which), which can be imported into pretty much anything - Strava, Golden Cheetah, Training Peaks, Garmin. WOrks great.
Hope you have a fan for your office, and a big one. I typically leave a 2-3 foot puddle of sweat after I"m done with a TR workout.
Hope you have a fan for your office, and a big one. I typically leave a 2-3 foot puddle of sweat after I"m done with a TR workout.
10-16-13, 08:27 PM
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I've been using Trainerroad for over a year now. Love it. I've become their unofficial shill, actually.
The main caveat to using it: It's indoor training, so if you hate indoor cycling, you either have to change your tune quick, or fugetabout it.
Other than that, I love it. I actually do most of my training indoors, (M-F) so it works perfectly for me. The concept is stupid simple, but they've really make a sweet interface and good tracking of your performance. When you use it with a Sufferfest video, it's insane how good (and how hard) it is.
The good thing about TR is that you actually DO the workouts. It's one thing to read about FTP, NP, TSS, but a whole different thing to actually execute and do proper power-based workouts. I'll wager that the vast majority of people who own powermeter just use it as a fancy recording device that doesn't change their workouts much. WIth Trainerroad, that will definitely not be true - you'll be doing the FTP test, and then doing workouts based on it. It's very eye opening to see how hard 70%FTP, 80%FTP, 100%FTP, and 120%FTP are and how long you can last at those power ranges. For me, it meant more suffering than what I was used to.
The main caveat to using it: It's indoor training, so if you hate indoor cycling, you either have to change your tune quick, or fugetabout it.
Other than that, I love it. I actually do most of my training indoors, (M-F) so it works perfectly for me. The concept is stupid simple, but they've really make a sweet interface and good tracking of your performance. When you use it with a Sufferfest video, it's insane how good (and how hard) it is.
The good thing about TR is that you actually DO the workouts. It's one thing to read about FTP, NP, TSS, but a whole different thing to actually execute and do proper power-based workouts. I'll wager that the vast majority of people who own powermeter just use it as a fancy recording device that doesn't change their workouts much. WIth Trainerroad, that will definitely not be true - you'll be doing the FTP test, and then doing workouts based on it. It's very eye opening to see how hard 70%FTP, 80%FTP, 100%FTP, and 120%FTP are and how long you can last at those power ranges. For me, it meant more suffering than what I was used to.
10-16-13, 09:18 PM
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I did try Peripedal for a few months during the free beta. It also works, but trainerroad is much prettier, and was much smoother on the power acquisition for whatever reason (smoothing was on in both). It's also $75 now. If it were $30, I'd probably go with it, but at $75, I'd rather have Trainerroad and its awesome web synchronization - I really missed that part with peripedal. (But it does cost more.)
I'm still hoping some cycling buff programming guru will just open source an alternative. It seems so friggin' easy to do conceptually if you're a programmer - just put up a graph, suck in the power data, and display it in real-time. As much as I love Trainerroad, they have a near-monopoly on the market here, and they're making a pretty ridiculous killing for something so simple in idea. (By my guesstimates based on users/month that I casually looked through, they should easily be making $500k+ a year, probably for both programmers.)
I'm still hoping some cycling buff programming guru will just open source an alternative. It seems so friggin' easy to do conceptually if you're a programmer - just put up a graph, suck in the power data, and display it in real-time. As much as I love Trainerroad, they have a near-monopoly on the market here, and they're making a pretty ridiculous killing for something so simple in idea. (By my guesstimates based on users/month that I casually looked through, they should easily be making $500k+ a year, probably for both programmers.)
10-16-13, 11:37 PM
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.. but trainerroad is much prettier..... I'm still hoping some cycling buff programming guru will just open source an alternative. It seems so friggin' easy to do conceptually if you're a programmer - just put up a graph, suck in the power data, and display it in real-time.
1) I'm workin' on it.
2) It won't be open source.
3) All software is conceptually easy. It's the execution that's hard.
4) Trainer road is pretty?!?! It's graphs! And ugly ones at that.
Seriously tho, props to the guys that have their product on the market. TR is a great resource for people to have, even if the price seems a little silly.
10-17-13, 06:35 AM
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Update, I signed up for trainer road and since it's raining here today and coming into winter will start with their FTP test on the trainer this afternoon.
Personally what I would like to see would be a video game (Kinect style), that would interface your riding onto a race course, allow for online play, etc. but using your regular trainer (not a compu trainer style). So even though there may be no feedback back or added resistance back to the bike it would be fun to have that level of interaction. I once took the Wii remote, stuck it in my sock and did a mini jogging course while riding on the trainer, that was interesting...
Personally what I would like to see would be a video game (Kinect style), that would interface your riding onto a race course, allow for online play, etc. but using your regular trainer (not a compu trainer style). So even though there may be no feedback back or added resistance back to the bike it would be fun to have that level of interaction. I once took the Wii remote, stuck it in my sock and did a mini jogging course while riding on the trainer, that was interesting...
10-17-13, 07:20 AM
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Update, I signed up for trainer road and since it's raining here today and coming into winter will start with their FTP test on the trainer this afternoon.
Personally what I would like to see would be a video game (Kinect style), that would interface your riding onto a race course, allow for online play, etc. but using your regular trainer (not a compu trainer style). So even though there may be no feedback back or added resistance back to the bike it would be fun to have that level of interaction. I once took the Wii remote, stuck it in my sock and did a mini jogging course while riding on the trainer, that was interesting...
Personally what I would like to see would be a video game (Kinect style), that would interface your riding onto a race course, allow for online play, etc. but using your regular trainer (not a compu trainer style). So even though there may be no feedback back or added resistance back to the bike it would be fun to have that level of interaction. I once took the Wii remote, stuck it in my sock and did a mini jogging course while riding on the trainer, that was interesting...
10-17-13, 07:37 AM
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1) I'm workin' on it.
2) It won't be open source.
3) All software is conceptually easy. It's the execution that's hard.
4) Trainer road is pretty?!?! It's graphs! And ugly ones at that.
Seriously tho, props to the guys that have their product on the market. TR is a great resource for people to have, even if the price seems a little silly.
2) It won't be open source.
3) All software is conceptually easy. It's the execution that's hard.
4) Trainer road is pretty?!?! It's graphs! And ugly ones at that.
Seriously tho, props to the guys that have their product on the market. TR is a great resource for people to have, even if the price seems a little silly.
10-17-13, 07:54 AM
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I used it quite a bit last year and used it this year for the first time last night. I live in Texas so it is just now getting "cold". I have actually been surprised at how good a distraction it is. Someone on Slowtwitch asked about it and this is what I wrote there:
I have ridden/raced over 200 "kilometers" on it mostly on last year's development version and will be using it this winter as well. I found that whether racing against algorithms or real people it provides motivation that just riding on a trainer or rollers doesn't. It is interesting psychologically that having a graphical representation of a real person trying to beat you to an imaginary digital finish line really will make you work harder than you would otherwise.
Basically you will have two types of races. Those against all Artificial Intelligence riders and those against AI's mixed with humans. Personally I think both are fun but the humans are less predictable and so more interesting. For the AI races they will have differing abilities, and I believe they are chosen based upon your race history. So if your race history shows your average watts to be 200 you aren't going to be stacked up against a bunch of 400 watt AIs, but for your first few AI only races you may win them easily while you develop a history. The drafting and calculated "speeds" (I'm using air quotes there since you aren't actually moving in real life) seems realistic from the visual cues on the screen. When a real person joins in the race it provides even more motivation. The 3D is constantly improving but for me that is secondary; just having the visual cues of other riders, different terrains and elevations, and speeds calculated based upon real physics, whether it all looks cool or not, is the best part of the program. The added benefit is it just keeps getting better visually and has gone all the way from a red floating cube to pedaling people with trees, windmills, towns, etc.
I think it is great and worth a try even without the try-it-before-you-buy-it offer. I have even hooked it up on one computer with TrainerRoad on the other and just rode a time trial on TdG while I was doing TrainerRoad intervals with the little 3D me on the screen speeding up, slowing down, speeding up, slowing down, etc.
I have ridden/raced over 200 "kilometers" on it mostly on last year's development version and will be using it this winter as well. I found that whether racing against algorithms or real people it provides motivation that just riding on a trainer or rollers doesn't. It is interesting psychologically that having a graphical representation of a real person trying to beat you to an imaginary digital finish line really will make you work harder than you would otherwise.
Basically you will have two types of races. Those against all Artificial Intelligence riders and those against AI's mixed with humans. Personally I think both are fun but the humans are less predictable and so more interesting. For the AI races they will have differing abilities, and I believe they are chosen based upon your race history. So if your race history shows your average watts to be 200 you aren't going to be stacked up against a bunch of 400 watt AIs, but for your first few AI only races you may win them easily while you develop a history. The drafting and calculated "speeds" (I'm using air quotes there since you aren't actually moving in real life) seems realistic from the visual cues on the screen. When a real person joins in the race it provides even more motivation. The 3D is constantly improving but for me that is secondary; just having the visual cues of other riders, different terrains and elevations, and speeds calculated based upon real physics, whether it all looks cool or not, is the best part of the program. The added benefit is it just keeps getting better visually and has gone all the way from a red floating cube to pedaling people with trees, windmills, towns, etc.
I think it is great and worth a try even without the try-it-before-you-buy-it offer. I have even hooked it up on one computer with TrainerRoad on the other and just rode a time trial on TdG while I was doing TrainerRoad intervals with the little 3D me on the screen speeding up, slowing down, speeding up, slowing down, etc.
10-17-13, 08:10 AM
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awesome thanks, will definitely give it a shot when I have to move indoors!
10-17-13, 12:45 PM
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Well that was pretty cool! I think I'll like it for indoor training, definitely better than just riding along with no direction on the trainer
10-17-13, 02:03 PM
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Update, I signed up for trainer road and since it's raining here today and coming into winter will start with their FTP test on the trainer this afternoon.
Personally what I would like to see would be a video game (Kinect style), that would interface your riding onto a race course, allow for online play, etc. but using your regular trainer (not a compu trainer style). So even though there may be no feedback back or added resistance back to the bike it would be fun to have that level of interaction. I once took the Wii remote, stuck it in my sock and did a mini jogging course while riding on the trainer, that was interesting...
Personally what I would like to see would be a video game (Kinect style), that would interface your riding onto a race course, allow for online play, etc. but using your regular trainer (not a compu trainer style). So even though there may be no feedback back or added resistance back to the bike it would be fun to have that level of interaction. I once took the Wii remote, stuck it in my sock and did a mini jogging course while riding on the trainer, that was interesting...
https://vrbike.jmxdigital.com
10-17-13, 02:18 PM
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This is what I've been using for a couple years, and it's basically what you said altho no online play (since I'm the only user of the software).
https://vrbike.jmxdigital.com
https://vrbike.jmxdigital.com
10-17-13, 03:18 PM
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This is what I've been using for a couple years, and it's basically what you said altho no online play (since I'm the only user of the software).
https://vrbike.jmxdigital.com
https://vrbike.jmxdigital.com
Expected release date for public use or even beta testers?
10-17-13, 04:39 PM
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wow, nice! I'd be interested in using it if you want more testers! Since you come from the industry maybe you should look at a console version? Small world I used to live in Orange back in 2000 and worked for Sega GameWorks for a number of years while they were trying to grow. Helped out the Irvine and Ontario locations as well as Vegas and Seattle.
Nope and no. I pretty much don't touch it all summer since I ride outdoors, so once the weather gets cooler I'll actually work on it more and can see if it'll be out this season or not. I haven't got a lot of interest from folks, so there's not been much urgency on my part....it works great for my workouts, and I don't mind a bug or three
10-17-13, 06:53 PM
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I think you should try and release it.
You're hugely underestimating both the interest and how much money you could make off something like this.
To put in perspective, when I browse Trainerroad's active user list per month, it's over 1000/month (I can't even count them since there are so many) whom are paying $10/month, and not just during winter. (I checked during summer.) That's well over $10k/month and could be even 5x that amount by my guesstimates. And they have almost zero competition. (There are two other pieces of software out there - peripedal and one more.)
Your product looks great and you already have a working prototype. Just finish it, and beta it for free for 6 months to work out the quirks - that's how TR got started from a homegrown project, and now they're fully legit and don't even need to advertise.
Get the beta out, on a forum, and you'll really see how much constructive feedback and encouragement you'll get.
You're hugely underestimating both the interest and how much money you could make off something like this.
To put in perspective, when I browse Trainerroad's active user list per month, it's over 1000/month (I can't even count them since there are so many) whom are paying $10/month, and not just during winter. (I checked during summer.) That's well over $10k/month and could be even 5x that amount by my guesstimates. And they have almost zero competition. (There are two other pieces of software out there - peripedal and one more.)
Your product looks great and you already have a working prototype. Just finish it, and beta it for free for 6 months to work out the quirks - that's how TR got started from a homegrown project, and now they're fully legit and don't even need to advertise.
Get the beta out, on a forum, and you'll really see how much constructive feedback and encouragement you'll get.
