Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Your opinions on the "run-up and drift back"

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Your opinions on the "run-up and drift back"

Old 07-03-19, 02:25 PM
  #26  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,764
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1975 Post(s)
Liked 232 Times in 173 Posts
https://goodmenproject.com/men-in-ti...rt-of-the-sag/
redlude97 is offline  
Old 07-03-19, 02:36 PM
  #27  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444

Bikes: bikes

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times in 711 Posts
Originally Posted by burnthesheep
Didn't put this in the 33 racer forum, it's not a race ride.

I'm talking about people doing whatever possible to filter through a group to get up front, then drifting back on hills. I'd totally see doing that in a race as a strategy.

But, this isn't a race. So, what's your opinions on this move for different types of group ride?

Regimented paceline: heck no, I would think
hammer or interval and regroup at stops: ????
fondos: ????

We've got someone doing this multiple times per group ride, to the extent they'll even go over the center yellow. And it's not just a filtering in anticipation of a hill to be in good position, it's in the last seconds before the hill and they'll run-up in a tuck or with power past the people pulling.

That's what you've got. What's your opinion? I feel the over the yellow is obviously bad, but what about the rest of it? When is that OK?

I thought I've heard people or seen it as actual advice for people before.

It's also at leaving stops. They do it there by jumping off quick.

Outside of a race, I find it annoying.
My opinion... you make a post nearly every single week criticizing some aspect of this ride.

Go find another ride.

If one's not available, just ride by yourself, since clearly you get nothing from this ride other than frustration.

Seriously. How many posts have you made about this group ride? It's gotta be approaching multiple dozens now.

I remember posting something months ago that you should find a better ride...
rubiksoval is offline  
Likes For rubiksoval:
Old 07-03-19, 04:31 PM
  #28  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,567
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 675 Times in 427 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval
My opinion... you make a post nearly every single week criticizing some aspect of this ride.

Go find another ride.

If one's not available, just ride by yourself, since clearly you get nothing from this ride other than frustration.

Seriously. How many posts have you made about this group ride? It's gotta be approaching multiple dozens now.

I remember posting something months ago that you should find a better ride...
This.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 07-03-19, 07:15 PM
  #29  
big chainring 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wilmette, IL
Posts: 7,318
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 746 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times in 347 Posts
I was on a ride a couple years ago and did just that. I didnt have the gears for the hills. There were about 20 of us on the ride. And I and they soon realized I didnt have the low gears necessary to get up the hills. So yeah, I went to the front, hugged the right side of the road and drifted back letting everyone pass me as I pounded a big gear up the hills. I dont think anyone was annoyed. If I didnt do it that way I would have been dropped on every hill and have to chase to get back in contact with the group.
big chainring is offline  
Old 07-03-19, 07:31 PM
  #30  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,501

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3873 Post(s)
Liked 1,920 Times in 1,369 Posts
Smart. When they go over the top without you, it's because you've held the highest pace you can hold for a long period. So just keep holding that pace. They'll ease off because they're about blown, You don't. On the other side, hold your power and use your aero advantage to regain your position. Yeah, you'd better have one, so work on that.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 07-03-19, 09:53 PM
  #31  
Athens80
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 13 Posts
Why do people do whatever possible to hammer up hills and then drift back on descents and flats? And also at leaving stops, starting across the intersection and down the street ultra slow?

Why not maintain a fairly steady power on the flats, a little harder uphill, a little easier downhill, without slacking off for long periods? That way people riding steady won't be passing on the flats. And they won't be tempted to cross the center line to get around you when you're dawdling.

Who's "at fault?" I don't know. But I do know that relative speed is relative. Someone is going faster than you only because you're slow.
Athens80 is offline  
Old 07-04-19, 02:46 AM
  #32  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,522

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4559 Post(s)
Liked 2,798 Times in 1,798 Posts
I see this a lot. Doesn't bother me as long as they're careful. I figure either they're riding to their strengths or just practicing bike handling and group skills. Again, as long as they're drifting around the group safely, doesn't bother me.

Heck, in groups with folks who are new to me, I've probably done something similar. Sometimes I'll notice a friend or someone new to the group falling back, so I'll drift back to ride alongside them so they don't feel like they've been dropped. I've appreciated that when I've struggled. It's a nice little morale boost when most of the group is a few hundred yards ahead. Then we can pace or tow each other back to the group.

It's mostly trying to find a compatible mini-group of 2 or 3 riders out of a larger group. Large groups tend to filter themselves into these informal sorta cliques or mini-groups anyway. Sometimes it's just finding folks you enjoy chattering with.

Perceptions can be interesting too. A month or so ago I noticed a new-to-me person who seemed to prefer plenty of room around her, so she'd occasionally drift across the yellow line as long as there were no traffic problems (she was alert to oncoming and following traffic, so it wasn't unsafe). Maybe it had been awhile since she'd ridden in a group, I dunno. Didn't bother me.

But some guy was grousing about her riding style. Funny thing, he was the most erratic rider in the group. I had to watch for him half wheeling, or drifting when he reached for his water bottle, etc. But in his perception the other person was the problem.

Last edited by canklecat; 07-04-19 at 02:49 AM.
canklecat is offline  
Old 07-04-19, 05:48 AM
  #33  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,690
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 1,057 Times in 631 Posts
Something about taking the beam out of your own eye before trying to remove a splinter out of someone else's. Something something.

I'm always the person who's out of sync with the rest of the group on group rides. Maybe everyone is like that the first time time in a group (I usually only ride with a given group once or twice). I get a lot of "hold your line", "hold your speed" etc. People always accuse me of speeding up when I reach the front of the paceline. I recall noting the speed of the paceline (21 mph) and when I got to the front I maintained EXACTLY that speed, and people still accused me of going too hard. I dunno, maybe I need a power meter or something. I always seem to feeling good when everyone else is tired, and feeling bad when everyone else is feeling chipper.

Lots of cliques on group rides, popular people, unpopular people, feuds, gossiping, endless boring conversations about people's kids, houses, boats, cars, etc. On one one ride there were a bunch of people who all worked at the same prison, who talked "shop" endlessly, they were a real pleasure to hang out with. All the joys of human interaction as viewed by an "outsider" to the group who is not yet been vetted. Bad food at rest stops, really out of shape-looking people who are rude and clique-ish. Add in the atrocious adversarial behavior toward cars, blocking the road, running red lights and stop signs. And the ever-present risk of someone in front of me going down and taking out the group. There are good moments too, but it takes a lot to outweigh the bad things that go along with typical group rides.

Small groups can be a lot of fun, but something happens to people when groups exceed a certain number, group dynamics take over, and that's generally where the fun ends for me. I guess a man's got to know his limitations, and I know typical group rides are not for me personally, especially the ones you have to register and pay money to participate in.
Lemond1985 is offline  
Old 07-04-19, 05:51 AM
  #34  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444

Bikes: bikes

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times in 711 Posts
Originally Posted by Athens80
Why do people do whatever possible to hammer up hills and then drift back on descents and flats? And also at leaving stops, starting across the intersection and down the street ultra slow?

Why not maintain a fairly steady power on the flats, a little harder uphill, a little easier downhill, without slacking off for long periods?
Reverse that. Steady on the flat, a little easier uphill (not hammering it), a little harder downhill. That's how you keep it steady. If you're on the front you should never, ever be coasting. You should be doing threshold plus on every downhill that isn't having you spin out, because everyone behind you will be coasting/soft-pedaling.

This was the number one reason I stopped riding with most groups. Too slow when they need to go fast, too fast when they need to go steady. Too slow over the top of hills, too slow down the hills, too slow on the fast bits, too slow after intersections, and then attack the hills! Plus too many stops.
rubiksoval is offline  
Likes For rubiksoval:
Old 07-04-19, 10:14 AM
  #35  
Athens80
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval
If you're on the front you should never, ever be coasting. You should be doing threshold plus on every downhill that isn't having you spin out, because everyone behind you will be coasting/soft-pedaling..

Certainly if the ride is organized in a paceline or taking the available width of the road.

If the organization is more casual, and road conditions allow, I'm fine with passing in some sections and falling back in others so everyone's effort is less tightly regimented.

I don't enjoy the sections of events where riders sticking together take up the width of the road and impede those behind. On rolling courses I've spent 30 to 60 minutes keeping up with the pace on the uphill and then riding the brakes downhill. Eventually the groups break up enough so you can maintain your own pace by passing or being passed as needed. Obviously the answer is to start at the front and stay to the right and get passed by those faster up and down hill.

Some states have laws against driving in the left lane on the interstate highway impeding the flow of traffic. We don't need that in cycling law, but it's a worth remembering as a rule of thumb.
Athens80 is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 06:59 AM
  #36  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,568 Times in 973 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval
Reverse that. Steady on the flat, a little easier uphill (not hammering it), a little harder downhill. That's how you keep it steady. If you're on the front you should never, ever be coasting. You should be doing threshold plus on every downhill that isn't having you spin out, because everyone behind you will be coasting/soft-pedaling.

This was the number one reason I stopped riding with most groups. Too slow when they need to go fast, too fast when they need to go steady. Too slow over the top of hills, too slow down the hills, too slow on the fast bits, too slow after intersections, and then attack the hills! Plus too many stops.
While the finding a different group part might be true, it doesn't make the question invalid. There'll always be someone somewhere doing it, I just wanted to know why before ever saying something in person to someone who may very well be in the right.

But, this post, I totally agree with and can see why you said what you did now.

I think deep down a lot of people are wheelsuckers and sandbaggers more than they'd ever admit. I think a lot of people save more on their turn up front than they should hoping to spend it later. Not actually taking on a bit of hurt on the front.

With this question, what about if you ARE doing what you're supposed to. You hammer down the hill for the group and should probably pull off so their momentum carries them up. But, now you've got Mr/Mrs I hate hills coming around in a supertuck in a spot that the front folks would peel off to let the group momentum carry up the start of the hill.

I asked a local P/1/2 guy this exact question and his response was that you better be hammering down the hill for the group then peel off right at the bottom or barely after the bottom so the group's speed behind you can carry up as you re-attach on the back as they go by.

So, if that's true. It would be a pretty bad move to be trying to pass everyone to ready for the hill if the front people are peeling off to set the group up for success. They'd be pulling off right as the "run-up" person is flying around.
burnthesheep is offline  
Likes For burnthesheep:
Old 07-05-19, 07:04 AM
  #37  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,060
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 15,299 Times in 7,231 Posts
People who smell bad bother me more.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 07:49 AM
  #38  
Badger6
Obsessed with Eddington
 
Badger6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330

Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times in 368 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval
Steady on the flat, a little easier uphill (not hammering it), a little harder downhill.
Years ago, a coach told me, if you are resting when the tarmac is sloping down, you're never going to win. Words to live by...you still gotta hammer uphill for Vo2 Max tests and find a flattish to gently uphill sloped piece for FTP, but on a long road ride (in a group or not), do this and you'll be smoother and go longer...
Badger6 is offline  
Likes For Badger6:
Old 07-05-19, 07:54 AM
  #39  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 8,553

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn, Lakitu

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4905 Post(s)
Liked 1,731 Times in 958 Posts
Group ride ≠ race

No podium at the end, guys.
__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 08:30 AM
  #40  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,567
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 675 Times in 427 Posts
BTS, it seems that you have an image of what the group ride should be, and you are not getting that on any of the rides you do.

As Rubik said, find a new ride. Or start your own and make it explicitly clear how the ride will go. If no one wants to do it the way you want, then ride by yourself.

As to your question about the correct way to go up hills - Rubik explained it correctly to have a steady group ride. If someone needs to go off the front because they cannot hang with how the group is going uphill, that is fine, but it's more common on race rides than the steady group rides that Rubik outlined. How one should do that, well, it depends - and there are way too many variables to start going through it. That is the best answer you are going to get.

Again, find a new group ride. Start your own group ride. Ride alone. Or suck it up and let it go.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 08:53 AM
  #41  
velojym
Senior Member
 
velojym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Alabama
Posts: 519

Bikes: Konas: Jake the Snake-Fire Mountain-Zing Supreme, Dew Deluxe,Zone Ltd. (frame, needs parts), Surly Long Haul Trucker, Santana Arriva tandem, Montagues: Paratrooper-Fit, Trek 1200, Bianchi Ocelot, Fantom Cross Uno, Bridgestone 200

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 227 Times in 122 Posts
On some of the more casual rides, some of the slower riders will make a point of inserting themselves into the front of the group at every stop. I'm guessing it's a desire to see themselves 'up front'. Unfortunately, as the group gets rolling, they have to be avoided as they lag... again... some of 'em are on e-bikes.
Just another thing to allow for. I ain't gonna spill too many tears, but I may grumble to myself when I have to find away around the e-hells-angel for the sixth time on a ride, while he motors along without any sense of what's happening around him.
velojym is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 08:55 AM
  #42  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by velojym
On some of the more casual rides, some of the slower riders will make a point of inserting themselves into the front of the group at every stop. I'm guessing it's a desire to see themselves 'up front'. Unfortunately, as the group gets rolling, they have to be avoided as they lag... again... some of 'em are on e-bikes.
Just another thing to allow for. I ain't gonna spill too many tears, but I may grumble to myself when I have to find away around the e-hells-angel for the sixth time on a ride, while he motors along without any sense of what's happening around him.
You have e-bikes on your group ride?
WhyFi is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 09:07 AM
  #43  
velojym
Senior Member
 
velojym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Alabama
Posts: 519

Bikes: Konas: Jake the Snake-Fire Mountain-Zing Supreme, Dew Deluxe,Zone Ltd. (frame, needs parts), Surly Long Haul Trucker, Santana Arriva tandem, Montagues: Paratrooper-Fit, Trek 1200, Bianchi Ocelot, Fantom Cross Uno, Bridgestone 200

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 227 Times in 122 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
You have e-bikes on your group ride?
Usually just one. It's a "pick up" casual ride, everyone invited, so I don't stress about it too much.

But, it's like the one guy in a restaurant who wants to listen to something on his cellphone... without earbuds... annoying, but not enough to wanna storm out or anything. A couple others do the same thing, though at least they're self-powered. It's the only time they can be "up front", I suppose.
velojym is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 09:08 AM
  #44  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by burnthesheep
I think deep down a lot of people are wheelsuckers and sandbaggers more than they'd ever admit. I think a lot of people save more on their turn up front than they should hoping to spend it later. Not actually taking on a bit of hurt on the front.
Everyone has different strengths and agendas for a group ride. Riders who are racing the next day are not going to go as hard as someone using the ride for training. Some riders are stronger than others and will spend more time up front, climbers go up hills faster etc. It's best just to ride how you want and not worry too much about the others unless they're impacting your safety.

Our groups are in the 10-20 range and don't have any of the issues you're complaining about so perhaps you should look for a smaller group.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 10:21 AM
  #45  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times in 253 Posts
Mass makes a difference on how you ride. I often tandem - that makes a huge difference. You are going to appear to those of different mass to be applying power at different rates than they expect.
Each ride has its own culture. Some always become races. The idea is to be first. But they will roll along and chat at the start. Then you never really know what the other rider is there for. Often the racer kids would go to these larger faster group rides. Some days they went hard as it was a race replacement. Some days they didn't and some days they would avoid them as they were too fast for race prep.
Doge is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 02:10 PM
  #46  
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,548

Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by velojym
On some of the more casual rides, some of the slower riders will make a point of inserting themselves into the front of the group at every stop. I'm guessing it's a desire to see themselves 'up front'.
What is the deal with people who do this?

I encounter this all the time when commuting. It's always the slowest and most clueless riders who pull in front of everyone at lights -- a surprising percentage do it repeatedly.
banerjek is offline  
Likes For banerjek:
Old 07-06-19, 03:28 AM
  #47  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,522

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4559 Post(s)
Liked 2,798 Times in 1,798 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval
Reverse that. Steady on the flat, a little easier uphill (not hammering it), a little harder downhill. That's how you keep it steady. If you're on the front you should never, ever be coasting. You should be doing threshold plus on every downhill that isn't having you spin out, because everyone behind you will be coasting/soft-pedaling.

This was the number one reason I stopped riding with most groups. Too slow when they need to go fast, too fast when they need to go steady. Too slow over the top of hills, too slow down the hills, too slow on the fast bits, too slow after intersections, and then attack the hills! Plus too many stops.
That used to annoy me and I'd avoid most rides with groups that did this. But now I actually look for that weird accordioning as a different challenge, so I don't get stuck in a rut with solo training, or riding only with compatible folks.

I wouldn't ride with them too often, but once a week or a couplafew times a month has been an interesting challenge this year. As long as they're riding safely otherwise it doesn't bug me so much now.

I suspect it's due to getting advice from local coaches or trainers (no idea how qualified they are, but I know some newish but improving riders who train with the same two or three people). I've noticed that soon after they started training with these coaches, they immediately began hammering up every climb, then coasting downhill and soft-pedaling most flats until we got to a sprint zone where they wanted a new PR.

So maybe it's like the ninjas I see around my neighborhood. Somewhere along the way they were told to ride against traffic. Same with the accordion riders who hammer up climbs and split the groups.

Originally Posted by banerjek
What is the deal with people who do this?

I encounter this all the time when commuting. It's always the slowest and most clueless riders who pull in front of everyone at lights -- a surprising percentage do it repeatedly.
I ride a lot of casual group rides with participants ranging from hardcore Strava warriors to commuters to folks who ride only once or twice a month in casual group rides. The impression I get is the slower folks filter up front hoping the rest of us will take the hint and slow down to keep the group together. A few of my friends who enjoy riding a lot do not enjoy riding alone. They prefer groups for perceived safety, to build confidence in riding with other people, and for the socializing. So if they participate in casual pace rides -- 12-15 mph -- that is billed as a no-drop ride, sure, they'll be frustrated when the Strava warriors turn it into a segment-to-segment sprint, splitting the group and grousing about having to wait for stragglers on a no-drop ride.

To me, it's pretty much all good. As long as folks are reasonably safe, I just go with the flow of whatever the group is doing today. But when I see sketchy stuff I keep plenty of room around me. Kept me from getting tangling in a bad crash Friday afternoon when a fellow nicked the ledge of a seam and hit hard at 20+ mph. I had a bad feeling a few moments earlier, seeing him pass on a fast downhill, but riding the tops instead of the hoods or drops, and hugging an obvious seam that undulated between flat and downright dangerous. I'm sorry he was hurt but I'm glad nobody else got tangled up.
canklecat is offline  
Old 07-06-19, 11:52 AM
  #48  
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,548

Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by canklecat
The impression I get is the slower folks filter up front hoping the rest of us will take the hint and slow down to keep the group together. A few of my friends who enjoy riding a lot do not enjoy riding alone. They prefer groups for perceived safety, to build confidence in riding with other people, and for the socializing.
In general, I'm on board with the concept. When I take beginners out, I ride behind so they can set a comfortable pace. I also ride left and back behind them to push the traffic off and help manage how those interactions work. But that's way different than having those with the worst judgment, awareness, and skills unilaterally try to control riders they don't even know.

Beginners feel more comfortable with other beginners, but I'm not convinced it's a good idea. The last thing you'd do with a newbie driver is put them in a swarm of other newbie drivers. Matter of fact, even (or maybe especially) an experienced driver would avoid that mess like the plague. Operating a bicycle safely requires more awareness and finely tuned motor skills than a car, so the principle applies even more.
banerjek is offline  
Old 07-06-19, 02:58 PM
  #49  
Princess_Allez
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 40 Posts
Originally Posted by Lemond1985
Something about taking the beam out of your own eye before trying to remove a splinter out of someone else's. Something something.

I'm always the person who's out of sync with the rest of the group on group rides. Maybe everyone is like that the first time time in a group (I usually only ride with a given group once or twice). I get a lot of "hold your line", "hold your speed" etc. People always accuse me of speeding up when I reach the front of the paceline. I recall noting the speed of the paceline (21 mph) and when I got to the front I maintained EXACTLY that speed, and people still accused me of going too hard. I dunno, maybe I need a power meter or something. I always seem to feeling good when everyone else is tired, and feeling bad when everyone else is feeling chipper.

Lots of cliques on group rides, popular people, unpopular people, feuds, gossiping, endless boring conversations about people's kids, houses, boats, cars, etc. On one one ride there were a bunch of people who all worked at the same prison, who talked "shop" endlessly, they were a real pleasure to hang out with. All the joys of human interaction as viewed by an "outsider" to the group who is not yet been vetted. Bad food at rest stops, really out of shape-looking people who are rude and clique-ish. Add in the atrocious adversarial behavior toward cars, blocking the road, running red lights and stop signs. And the ever-present risk of someone in front of me going down and taking out the group. There are good moments too, but it takes a lot to outweigh the bad things that go along with typical group rides.

Small groups can be a lot of fun, but something happens to people when groups exceed a certain number, group dynamics take over, and that's generally where the fun ends for me. I guess a man's got to know his limitations, and I know typical group rides are not for me personally, especially the ones you have to register and pay money to participate in.
This confirms my lack of interest in large group rides- as a noob. Sounds like a close knit (2-5 person) ride is much more enjoyable and manageable.

On a related note, I'd probably be the guy doing whatever he feels like on a large ride

Last edited by Princess_Allez; 07-06-19 at 03:03 PM.
Princess_Allez is offline  
Old 07-07-19, 05:12 AM
  #50  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,456

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Liked 1,272 Times in 734 Posts
Originally Posted by burnthesheep
Didn't put this in the 33 racer forum, it's not a race ride.

I'm talking about people doing whatever possible to filter through a group to get up front, then drifting back on hills. I'd totally see doing that in a race as a strategy.

But, this isn't a race. So, what's your opinions on this move for different types of group ride?

Regimented paceline: heck no, I would think
hammer or interval and regroup at stops: ????
fondos: ????

We've got someone doing this multiple times per group ride, to the extent they'll even go over the center yellow. And it's not just a filtering in anticipation of a hill to be in good position, it's in the last seconds before the hill and they'll run-up in a tuck or with power past the people pulling.
How is the group riding that someone would have to "filter through" or go over a yellow line to pass? I am not condoning crossing a yellow line but it suggests the group is all over the place and not generally cohesive. And, for some people who are not strong climbers, getting a roll toward a hill will put them in a position to be passed on the hill but not off the back so much. If they don't take the roll and start climbing from the back, they are toast and will not be able to keep contact with the group after a couple hills. Don't ask me how I know.
bruce19 is offline  
Likes For bruce19:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.