GoJacob

i got new bearings (the ones that are connected by a cage type thing) to replace my old ones. which way do they go? does the open side face the hub or the cone? if anyone could answer quickly, i'll adjust this thread tonight... in the middle of an overhaul because I just got my bike, but i need the answer before it gets dark out here. THANKS!

cny-bikeman

It's best to use loose ball bearings, unless you have a high quality cage that has a complete complement of balls, BUT the open side (where you can see almost the entire bearing) faces the cone, so that no part of the cage is rubbing on a bearing surface.

moxfyre

+1

Loose ball bearings are much better for hubs and bottom brackets, since it's quite easy to install them loose. Installing loose bearings into the bottom race of a headset is a bit harder, because you have to flip the bike to do it easily. But even there, installing loose bearings is usually worth it, because it will often make the headset smoother. I've switched caged to loose bearings and made an old headset MUCH smoother.

GoJacob

thats what confuses me... it has the open bearings one side, and the back of the cage on the other? the guy at the lbs said these would work just fine... and they're easier to take out/maintain.

damnit...
the LBS is closed now... I was going to ask for loose bearings but he said they would work fine

which way should I put them in? it seems like the back of the cage is going to be against one of the bearing edges...

EDIT: sorry cny-bikeman, i didn't see that you said it faces the cone... won't this hurt the cup? or does the back of the cage not rotate?

thanks

wmodavis

One way the cage will likely scrape and the correct way it won't. Put it together held by hand and rotate parts to see if it rotates smoothly or if you feel a scrape. Not foolproof but has worked for me several times when it wasn't obvious which was the correct way.

GoJacob

when the bearings are facing the cone, the cage doesn't move and the axle spins smoothly... when the bearings are facing the cup, the cone grinds against the cage. neither seem ok to me. i really wanted it to work for today, but i noticed a small pit on one of the cones. so, screw it, i'm going to a different LBS, buying a new axle/cones and loose bearings and doing the right way from the get-go. i'm quite pissed that the guy gave me the caged bearings as my only option, because now i have to wait a couple days to replace everything (because classes started yesterday... ARGGHHH)
thanks for all the comments everyone!
i'm going to post a picture thread of my newly overhauled nishiki international.
the frame is really nice, but i'm cleaning up some of the components.
until then, everyone have a good week

moxfyre

Bearings facing the cone is the way to go! The cage standing still won't be a problem, because it's the bearing balls which touch BOTH THE CUP AND THE CONE, and which thereby allow the smooth rotation of the bearing. If you see an exploded diagram of a cup-and-cone bearing (maybe Sheldon's site has one?) you'll see how it works.

I wouldn't worry too much about a small pit. If it spins smoothly with new balls, new grease, and proper adjustment... then it's good to go, and should last nearly as long until the next overall, when you can see if it's gotten worse.

Oooh. Nishiki International. I like 'em! Hope to see those photos up soon.

GoJacob

actually, another reason (that i forgot to mention!) for replacing the axle is that it cross threads about a centimeter into it on one side. I physically can't force it anymore and I don't have any other way to grasp the other end to wrench on it. I think it just needs to be replaced...

but... if you're saying that a small pit doesn't hurt anything... then maybe I can work on it another day. Is there anyway to get around a cross thread without having it re-threaded? The nut (not the cone, it was already threaded on) only goes on about a centimeter before it gets stuck and it looks slightly crooked to me.

anywayss... thanks for the response, and possibly saving me $15-20

do you have any recommendations for chains (it didn't come with one!)? it's a 12 speed. would i have to adjust the tension? that same guy tried selling me one without a master link and said a chain with one wouldn't fit into my derailleur. any suggestions/comments?
I remember someone recommending the SRAM PC-58
would i have to adjust the length on this? if yes, is it easy?

sorry for the long winded questions. thanks!

mike

open side to the bearing cones. Bearing race back to cups.

GoJacob

thanks mike

this is why i thought it wouldn't work...
where the red arrows point, i thought the caged would grind into the cup...
i'm wrong, but you can see why i was concerned.

anywaysss...

Wordbiker

This diagram should help:

GoJacob

where does the cone go? the top side or bottom (bottom seems likely to me)? there would be no bearings touching the cone then...

maybe i was just born ********, it still doesn't click... i'll see if good ol' sheldon brown has anything on his site.

mike

You know what, GoJacob, it has been so long since I used caged bearings that I am almost questioning my memory. The other posters here gave you good advice that I will also suggest - advice that will eliminate your concern.

That advice is to use free bearings. Since you are doing this work by hand, you don't need the cages that are used by the assembly-line producers. Caged bearings reduce performance, so you are well advised to get rid of them. In fact, you can take the ball bearings out of the cages and use them free.

Just use grease in the cups like glue to hold the bearings in place as you put the BB spindle/axle in place and put the BB back together.

You will notice the difference in performance for this easy approach.

GoJacob

loose bearings are what i'm familiar with-- and i know they work.
If it will not damage the HUB, i'll use the caged for now and see how they perform/hold up... that's saying if i can get the axle to thread right. if not, it's off to the LBS to replace it all.
i appreciate your comments and advice, as i am still new to some of this and don't want to ruin a decent hub.
The guy at the LBS said they'd work, so I'll assume, along with everyone else's comments, that they will. thanks guys

GoJacob

good news...
i got the axle on and the wheel on the bike.
the axle didn't want to fit into the fork dropouts.... I had to kind of pry them open to get the wheel onto the bike... is this ok? i had the same problem with the rear. as long as the wheel is locked into place and straight, will this become a problem (especially for the frame? i love it)
now i'm off to the LBS to get a chain and some grip tape!

moxfyre

Yes, that's okay to pry the dropouts open slightly. Not all bikes are made with exactly the right spacing, and it generally won't hurt anything to squeeze them a bit. I for one have been using a 130mm (9-speed) hub in 126mm (8-speed) dropouts on an ALUMINUM frame for a couple years, with no problems other than having to squeeze the dropouts a bit to get the rear wheel in. When I asked if this was safe on rec.bicycles.tech, I heard from many others doing the same thing for thousands of miles with no problems.

GoJacob

great, thank you

anyone know where to get cheap leather-looking bar tape? the $60-70 for the brooks stuff just aint in my budget. i don't care if it's real leather, just something that looks like a leather and preferably padded.

moxfyre

Good question I've been looking for the same thing! They used to use faux-leather tape on 80s road bikes, and it looks pretty nice to me. I don't why they only make the fancy stuff now...

I_bRAD

velo orange has elkhide bar covering that looks slick and is half the price of the Brooks. I'm gonna get some for myself one day:

https://www.velo-orange.com/elsebarco.html

mike

How about trying the automotive steering wheel grip tape. You can get it at Dollar Tree for $1.00 which is cheap enough to experiment with.

Let us know how it goes.

moxfyre

Cool! Do you know what the brand is? I've never seen such a thing at a dollar store.

GoJacob

those velo orange elkhide sew-ons are really neat (the espresso would match my saddle perfectly!). maybe just a tad bit pricey, but much better than the brooks (and i kind of like the sew on look rather than the wrap!). just not sure if i wanna spend the 34 bucks. hmmmm

i'll have to make a stop at a dollar tree, i'm wondering if it's as soft as i'd need (i hate the thin tape or thin wrap where you feel the bar and every bump)

thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming!

Bikedued

Cinelli makes a black wrap in carbon weave pattern. It looks pretty old school, though I wasn't happy with the padding. Interesting texture, but I took it off in favor of some black cork. It reminded of being a kid and trying to ride those old transparent vinyl taped bikes. (((((((shudder)))))))Yep, just showed my age, haha.,,,,BD

The padding was "okay" but nowhere near the comfort of cork...

GoJacob

https://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...s%2FBar%20Tape

Nashbar cork tape! I don't know why I didn't see this before... it comes in a "natural" finish which is almost exactly what I'm looking for, for CHEAP. and maybe I'll splurge and get the nashbar gel padding for underneath. anyone use nashbar cork? same as cinelli?

btw, bikedued, i love your brakehoods!

moxfyre

I've only used Nashbar gel tape, which I like a ton. It's thick and has a rough, cork-like feeling, and it comes in a lot of colors and patterns. And it's cheap.

Haven't used the cork though, haven't had any desire to switch from the Nashbar gel tape (which is superior to the thin, smooth Cinelli gel tape in my opinion).