Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

Masters Worlds 2018

Old 10-13-18, 12:22 PM
  #51  
Divebrian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 160
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
No idea. If I do worlds next year I plan to beat it again

You can set world records in competition outside of the world championships, just need to have the correct people and measures in place to ratify it.....believe a couple of world records were set at this years Nationals. I believe one of them was set by our very own Sarals.
Divebrian is offline  
Old 10-13-18, 01:49 PM
  #52  
700wheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 564
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
Maybe that's per person? Because she gets the record for beating me.
I checked the rules.
USA Cycling: See Rule 9A3
UCI: I did not see such a rule.
700wheel is offline  
Old 10-13-18, 01:58 PM
  #53  
southernfox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
...and this is UCI...so...9A3 doesn't apply?
southernfox is offline  
Old 10-13-18, 03:50 PM
  #54  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
For it to be a World Record, among many other things,
- You must submit a sample to Doping Control immediately after the event.
- You must pay for the doping test.
- You must pass the doping test.
- The UCI must evaluate and certify it as so (usually weeks or months later)

Its only a UCI World Record when the UCI says its a UCI World Record. Until then, its just a time.
carleton is offline  
Old 10-13-18, 04:08 PM
  #55  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
...and your bike must pass bike check.

Im not sure if there is a rigorous bike check at Masters Worlds. The last US Masters Nationals I raced had a policy of, Do bike check if you think you will break a world record because it will certainly be checked afterwards.
carleton is offline  
Old 10-13-18, 06:29 PM
  #56  
taras0000
Senior Member
 
taras0000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 43.2330941,-79.8022037,17
Posts: 1,674
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 305 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
@southernfox, congrats on the win in the Sprints!
taras0000 is offline  
Old 10-13-18, 08:47 PM
  #57  
queerpunk
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,502
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
...and your bike must pass bike check.

Im not sure if there is a rigorous bike check at Masters Worlds. The last US Masters Nationals I raced had a policy of, Do bike check if you think you will break a world record because it will certainly be checked afterwards.
There's a rigorous bike check. Full check and weigh in, each event. At Elite Nats, it's tended to be "full check and weigh in early in the week, waved through subsequently."
queerpunk is offline  
Old 10-13-18, 09:55 PM
  #58  
southernfox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
@southernfox, congrats on the win in the Sprints!
Thanks! I'm so freaking excited!!!!
southernfox is offline  
Old 10-13-18, 09:57 PM
  #59  
southernfox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
...and your bike must pass bike check.

I’m not sure if there is a rigorous bike check at Masters Worlds. The last US Masters Nationals I raced had a policy of, “Do bike check if you think you will break a world record because it will certainly be checked afterwards.”
*I'M* aware of all of this. Every line of it. I had to go through a second bike check, have the bike photographed. And as I was planning to head to doping control, the record was beaten a second time...which means I didn't have to go to doping.

My point is the claim that a UCI record can only be beaten once in 24hrs is false.

Also: we're required to do bike check BEFORE the event anyway. So for the record they check it afterwards, also, and photograph it on the jig.
southernfox is offline  
Old 10-13-18, 09:59 PM
  #60  
southernfox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
There's a rigorous bike check. Full check and weigh in, each event. At Elite Nats, it's tended to be "full check and weigh in early in the week, waved through subsequently."
And we have to get checked before every event (and each day, even if it's a multi-day event like the sprints). And after it's checked, it goes on a rack nearby...you can't take it away, or else you have to check it again before racing.

(I'm no UCI spring chicken)
southernfox is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 12:39 AM
  #61  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
(I'm no UCI spring chicken)
But you are, though.
carleton is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 06:13 AM
  #62  
southernfox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You're explaining things to me that I already know through personal experience. Come on, man.
southernfox is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 07:14 AM
  #63  
nslckevin
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
...and your bike must pass bike check.

Im not sure if there is a rigorous bike check at Masters Worlds. The last US Masters Nationals I raced had a policy of, Do bike check if you think you will break a world record because it will certainly be checked afterwards.
Last year we "broke the WR" for 55+ TP and they checked all of our bikes afterward because of that. The funny thing is that the UCI doesn't have ANY TP world records. So I have no idea why they did what they did and why they talked about the WR.

This year after Larry Nolan broke Vic Copeland's 60-64 2km record they checked his bike and he was drug tested.

We broke the national record for 4,000m TP in qualifying, but then caught our opponents in the final this year. I got drug tested after the final, but not the whole team like when we set it at elite nationals. My guess is that this new record will never make it in the books.

At elite nationals we had some discussion with the USAC official. Their policy was that USAC wasn't interested in paying for drug testing for a masters national record at elite nationals. They put a call into USADA to see if they would pay for it or if we would have to pay for it. USADA paid for it so we got tested and submitted the record paperwork. But I still had to bug USAC a couple of months later to get it listed.
nslckevin is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 07:30 AM
  #64  
Poppit
Senior Member
 
Poppit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
Thanks! I'm so freaking excited!!!!
I should imagine that there will be an interesting debate over the next few days.
Poppit is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 02:06 PM
  #65  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Poppit View Post


I should imagine that there will be an interesting debate over the next few days.
Agreed.
carleton is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 04:21 PM
  #66  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,261
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1223 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 14 Posts
Not sure how interesting it will be. If it's the debate I am thinking, it was hashed out in the 33 a couple years ago.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 04:55 PM
  #67  
southernfox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
...sigh. Don't do that debate on here. Here's a resource:
I'm an internationally recognized expert.
southernfox is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 05:37 PM
  #68  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
...sigh. Don't do that debate on here. Here's a resource: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buGIShx4ofs
Whew...now we can talk about the elephant in the room!

This explains your "meteoric rise" through the women's fields on the North American Track scene. I think it's a worthwhile conversation.

You talked to USA Today about it, too: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ess/995434001/

Originally Posted by southernfox View Post
I'm an internationally recognized expert.
That plus $1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee.

We aren't stupid (at least not very stupid)

You know full well what you are doing and what drama it will cause


(By the way, my comments are 100% about what happens on the track. Not what happens socially elsewhere. I don't care about that stuff and fully support "you doing you" 100%.)
carleton is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 06:36 PM
  #69  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
You mention in your video that you are approaching this as, "An athlete, an academic, and an activist".

Regarding "Activist":
I don't think anyone is saying that you shouldn't be allowed to race. The question is about which division. You have some clear competitive advantages but came here having us believe that you were a prodigy. I felt duped when I found out. Then I was like, "Ah...that explains everything."

Regarding "Academic":
I can't help but feel that you used our niche sport as an experiment.

If you really love the sport of track cycling and want to be a good sportsman in the name of sportsmanship, then let us know. But, as it stands now, I feel like everything that has happened was part of a big social experiment to prove a point and you didn't really care about the sport. It was just a means to an end.
carleton is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 06:46 PM
  #70  
southernfox
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm following all the rules. You have no evidence I have an unfair advantage. It seems to me that you've been antagonistic for this reason.

Last edited by StanSeven; 10-23-18 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Removed insulting language
southernfox is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 06:57 PM
  #71  
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: 60 Miles South of Hellyer
Posts: 6,738

Bikes: Yes.

Mentioned: 227 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Divebrian View Post
You can set world records in competition outside of the world championships, just need to have the correct people and measures in place to ratify it.....believe a couple of world records were set at this years Nationals. I believe one of them was set by our very own Sarals.
No, I didn't set any records. I wish! Barbara and I "likely" set a record in the TS for 65+ women on a 333 (T-Town), but the UCI and hence the USAC does NOT track records in the TS since last June ( we found out at Worlds)...
__________________
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
sarals is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 07:23 PM
  #72  
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: 60 Miles South of Hellyer
Posts: 6,738

Bikes: Yes.

Mentioned: 227 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sarals View Post
No, I didn't set any records. I wish! Barbara and I "likely" set a record in the TS for 65+ women on a 333 (T-Town), but the UCI and hence the USAC does NOT track records in the TS since last June ( we found out at Worlds)...
The other side of that coin is: Bonnie Woodbury and Barbara Gicquel, 75 and 78 respectively, trained all year - since Worlds 2017 - to set a WR in the TS for women 75+. Bonnie had a very bad year, she was injured pretty badly in a crash, and then a little over a month ago had to deal with a serious illness. She rode at Worlds JUST to set the record. Which the UCI no longer recognizes. "Oh, so sorry, we stopped doing that in June 2018". Talk about a slap to the face....
__________________
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
sarals is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 07:37 PM
  #73  
spartanKid
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: In your head
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I felt duped when I found out. Then I was like, "Ah...that explains everything."
Dude, c'mon, firstly, it doesn't really matter how you feel. Saying you feel duped is a really selfish way to frame something that really doesn't directly involve you. Trans people are under NO obligation to mention their status to the world at-large, and especially not random people on internet forums.

Secondly, you're literally dismissing all of the training and work that goes in to this sport. On this forum you constantly talk about how people need to work hard, it doesn't come over night, etc. clearly recognizing that it takes hard work, so instead of assuming that SF *also* put in lots of hard work, you throw the benefit of the doubt out the window? Just being trans doesn't make some one an all-star athlete.
spartanKid is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 08:11 PM
  #74  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by spartanKid View Post
Dude, c'mon, firstly, it doesn't really matter how you feel. Saying you feel duped is a really selfish way to frame something that really doesn't directly involve you. Trans people are under NO obligation to mention their status to the world at-large, and especially not random people on internet forums.
How can you say it doesn't matter how I feel? I'm a fan as well as a participant. No, she didn't take a world championship from me or bump me off of the podium. But, I watched her do it to others. Am I not allowed to have empathy?

As noted in the USA Today story, her own team captain (also trans) disagreed with her approach and dismissed her from the team.

Bearden (team captain) agrees with the International Olympic Committee that naturally occurring testosterone gives transgender women an unfair advantage in competition against cisgender women, meaning women who were born female, while McKinnon believes subjecting trans women to testosterone blocking violates their human rights.

Bearden sees trans women who compete with unlimited levels of natural testosterone as dopers and cheaters while McKinnon says looking at the issue that way only furthers the oppression of transgender people.
Originally Posted by spartanKid View Post
Secondly, you're literally dismissing all of the training and work that goes in to this sport. On this forum you constantly talk about how people need to work hard, it doesn't come over night, etc. clearly recognizing that it takes hard work, so instead of assuming that SF *also* put in lots of hard work, you throw the benefit of the doubt out the window? Just being trans doesn't make some one an all-star athlete.
Please quote where I dismissed her personal progress or achievements?

I really think you are interpreting anything other than "You go, girl!" as me wholly rooting against her in all facets.

Last edited by carleton; 10-14-18 at 08:12 PM. Reason: removed photo caption text from the copy.
carleton is offline  
Old 10-14-18, 08:16 PM
  #75  
spartanKid
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: In your head
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
How can you say it doesn't matter how I feel? I'm a fan as well as a participant. No, she didn't take a world championship from me or bump me off of the podium. But, I watched her do it to others. Am I not allowed to have empathy?
You're projecting a perceived advantage onto the feelings of others. You think it's unfair so you're assuming that others also all assume it's unfair. It's even in the wording you used, "bump off of the podium", as if she doesn't belong.

Also, with regard to the testosterone levels, you're also assuming that SF and other trans-athletes are out there riding around with 17 year old male levels of test, which is DEFINITELY not the case.

,
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Please quote where I dismissed her personal progress or achievements?
You literally just said "Ah...that explains everything". As if being trans explains all her accomplishments.
spartanKid is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.