bakerjw

My rule of thumb is to never buy expensive stuff from overseas. If is expensive and returns are involved, it gets hairy.
The USPS is the one that screwed up to begin with.

The only exception to my rule was a Devilbiss GTI Pro Lite spray gun from England. Shipped DHL for free and was at my house the next day. I had to show people the shipping invoice to prove that I wan't lying. Best damned spray gun that I've ever used too btw.

puma1552

It makes no sense. The return shipping label was a USPS label for a package to be delivered to UPS Innovations Returns, and listed Washington D.C. and a D.C. zip code. Yet, the initial tracking that went with that label showed it was going to Jamaica, NY, so when I was trying to track the wheels down I couldn't even tell where the hell Wiggle was actually sending them to within the US. In the end, the last scan was out of 153-63 Rockaway Blvd. in Jamaica and I guess that's the last scan I'll see until it takes 4 weeks to make an 8 hour flight over the pond. No sign of it ever having been in or going to Washington, D.C.

base2 

After all that, I'd never do business with USPS again! (Though they do a really good job delivering my utility bills )

Seriously though, how many $3000 wheelsets do you think it's ok pre-emptivly to refund, only to be left holding an empty box?

You have no other wheel set? How is that their problem?

Atlas Shrugged

There was a long multi-page thread outlining your issues and attempted solutions regarding the wheels and your attempts to remedy the situation. What happened to the thread? I was curious about how things progressed.

bruce19

Sometimes shipping is a crap shoot. I've almost never had a bad experience with USPS. OTOH, UPS has, at times, driven me crazy. They've done things like leave a package at the front door of my house (which has no path and is un-useable---think 1760 house), left a package at the back door of my garage which I can't see from my house but is in full view of the street, left a package in the middle of my driveway 10 ft from the street (back of the house, where the entrance is, is about 50 ft. from the street), and more. Bear in mind I have complained and I have always specified that packages should be left on the back porch. And, I have had the UPS hand off to the post office somewhere in transit for reasons unknown. This usually delays the package by a couple days. I've come to the point where I buy most of my online stuff from Competitive Cyclist and one of the big reasons is customer service. They have actually assigned an employee to my account and he stays on top of my orders. Returns are free and if there is a return they will ship me the item I want the day I contact them. And, on two occasions they have actual sent stuff overnight with no charge.

mstateglfr 

Wow- a whole lot of delivery complaints are being blamed on a retailer.

The situation sucks for sure.

HerrKaLeun

Vendor has no control over what subs the original carrier uses. Especially in international shipping the last mile is done by the local postal service or some other entity that is available.

Has always been that way and with better logistics nowadays they use idle resources a 3rd party carrier may have.

You want free or cheap shipping, that requires them to use the to them most economical method.

puma1552

That may be true, but in this case, to send the wheels within the US from me to the US return depot, Wiggle most certainly made a conscious decision to use two shipping companies; the return label had a destination of "UPS Innovation Returns" yet the parcel was required to be dropped off at USPS, where it would then knowingly be handed off in some fashion from USPS to UPS. And like I said, all that did was facilitate finger pointing by both entities while Wiggle sat around doing absolutely nothing when they were supposed to be investigating what was going on and working with the shipping companies, which they absolutely failed to do; that is what I hold Wiggle responsible for. And really, if Wiggle had gotten off their ass and actively worked to solve the problem, maybe it wouldn't have taken 20 days for the wheels to be found at the post office. Forget about the international shipping, Wiggle made a conscious choice to use two shipping companies for transport within the US and then leaves the customer holding the bag when there's an issue.

Ultimately I also just find myself irritated I can't just flat out do a return due to dissatisfaction with the product. I can do this with literally virtually anything else on the planet that is not custom ordered (monogrammed stuff, etc), so why is it that with all these crap UK retailers (they're all the same when you read the fine print) it's unquestionably yours the second you open it? I mean as it sits, I don't even know if I'll even get a refund at all when all is said and done. I mean I can buy a $3000 laptop from Apple, cycle through multiple returns/exchanges no questions asked, but I can't return a single product to Wiggle unless it's defective, and even then, it's gotta be proven to be defective via liaison with the manufacturer? Can't just be unsatisfied with something and return it? Spare me the "why should the retailer take the loss if you don't like something" speech because that's literally the way virtually all retailers that serve humanity operate, and it's just good business practice to do so. Every single person in this thread and on the planet has been glad they've been able to return something when it just didn't work out, so that is indefensible. Amazon didn't get to where they are by having non-existent return and refund policies. Nor did Apple, or any other huge retailer that people like doing business with; in fact they got there by having good policies and good customer service.

Really what it comes down to is just flat out crap service and people who don't know anything or care to learn correct information to do their job well. It's a different answer every time you ask a question depending on who you get, it's reactive and not proactive customer service, it's people not following through leaving you pissing into the wind, it's just ****-canned chat answers that regurgitate information you already stated you know or that doesn't answer the question that is asked whatsoever, it's them being unreliable to deal with, and really just not caring and being pretty cavalier about it. It's an issue of the retailer having absolutely no pride in doing a good job, and as someone who is proactive, who does respond to people at work, who does work hard to solve problems for others, it really rubs me the wrong way. They're just lazy-ass people. There's a reason all the Wiggle returns and customer service reviews are utter crap, and it's because they are utter crap to deal with when something goes wrong.

HerrKaLeun

I believe there is also some fault on the manufacturer. They seem to have acknowledged that to be a warranty problem (subject to in-hand inspection, I assume) and would handle that in the US. but for no good reason they would have you go through an LBS.
And they also caused the problem due to lack of QC. the vendor is always being put in a tight spot since they may have a 1-2% margin to cover their expenses and are the ones yelled at.

good manufacturers just would have sent you a new product instead of having you go through vendors in the first place. Ultimately the vendor is just a pass-through.

I'm generalizing here. wiggle sure could have done better. but ultimately they have send that broken product back to the manufacturer's EU center before you get a new one.

ridelikeaturtle

Amazon and Apple "got to where they are" by abusing its employees and not paying any taxes.

By the way, this is getting worked out in your favor, correct? And it's just taking you a bit longer than you expected?

gregf83 

I’ve bought dozens of items from Wiggle without any problems. Had to return a Castelli jacket once which I sent by Fedex. Got there in a day or two and refund was prompt. I had to cover the shipping but assumed that’s part of the deal when buying overseas.

I’ll continue to buy from online UK retailers but generally items are under $200 to avoid duty & taxes. Have had good success with Merlin Cycles lately.

indyfabz

Exactly why I asked how much money he was planning on saving by buying from where he did. I am fascinated by the risk/reward analysis people make (or don't make) before making a purchase. The people who really fascinate me are those who will devote so much time to try to save literally a few bucks. Years ago some guy found deal on CO2 cartridges. The per unit cost was relatively inexpensive compared to what you pay at a LBS (but not significantly less than other on-line sources). Catch was that to get the low price you had to by them in something like lots of 100. It may have even been more. The guy was trying to get other BF members to chip in and split up the lot. Blew my mind that someone would go through such effort to try to save what, in the end, was a relatively insignificant amount of money. It was even crazier when you consider that the number of cartridges each person would end up with under his proposal was more than a person would likely use during a long period. It was as if the only thing that mattered was getting the rock bottom price, regardless of actual need.


Realistically, I didn't expect the OP to answer my question.

puma1552

I've said on at least a couple occasions within this thread that that is as of yet unknown; there's no guarantee a refund is even going to happen.

The savings over the LBS is about $400, or put another way, the LBS is about 100% more expensive. Not insignificant, and enough of a difference where you could buy a higher bracket of wheelset online. A bit different than some guy saving a buck on a CO2 cartridge.

indyfabz

And yet you've gone through so much already, including starting a rant. I spent several hundred dollars more than I could have on the touring/commuting wheels I mentioned previously. They got me to work this morning (again), and I will be doing a two or three day tour this weekend. Just depends on the Friday forecast.

puma1552

It's unfortunate my crystal ball was broken the day I ordered the wheels.

indyfabz

I don't buy a hell of a lot of stuff on line except in cases where I will have access to a brick and mortar location to bring any problems to. (Think REI, which has several stores near me, or L.L. Bean.) And call me crazy, but, in most cases, the more expensive/intricate the item, the less likely I am to buy it on line. I cannot imagine ever buying something like a wheel set from across the pond. A cast iron Dutch oven? Maybe. But certainly not something that could very easily be damaged during shipping or have some defect.

Several years ago I read an article that differentiated between cheap and frugal. One point that was made was that a frugal person, in addition to considering price, assigns values to both time and the avoidance of hassles when making purchasing decisions. The cheap person simply goes for the lowest price. Not calling you cheap. Just throwing out food for future thought in light of the "crystal ball" comment, which comment suggests to me that you either didn't know to consider the "what ifs" and "now whats?"

shelbyfv

If you ever hear from the wheel mfg, please start another thread. Sounds like a weird problem, would be interested to know the explanation.

ridingfool

Next time buy from merlincycles out of the uk too have bought thousands of dollars worth of stuff from them including 2 wheelsets and never a problem also fast shipping to me thankfully never had to return anything so not sure if that would be a hassle or not

ColonelSanders

Have you checked out the German E-tailers?


Bike24, Hi-Bike, Bike-discount.de, Bike-components.de, rosebikes.com


It is very rare that I need to go outside of those 5 to find what I am after, and at the best prices by a decent amount.


Having said that, I have just ordered a Hiplok Airlok from Merlin Cycles.

gregf83 

I bought a fancy Lupine bike light from Bike24 and it was a smooth transaction.

puma1552

Actually did receive an email on May 16th saying they received my return...and they received it May 5th, three days after it left the US, about as I'd expected. 11 day lag on tracking updating, and nobody at Wiggle in that time frame could tell me (or reach out to the warehouse) to verify it had actually showed up, even though I had asked. But whatever, they received it.

The email I got from them on the 16th said that the return had reached the retailer, and actually said I'd receive a refund within 7 days, which would be by tomorrow. I don't think for one second I'm getting a refund by tomorrow.

One time a guy on chat told me US based people sometimes were getting refunds before tracking even showed the returns arriving, which tells me that although they failed to look into and verify receipt of the return in my particular case, they can and do sometimes look into and process returns before the tracking even says its received. Therefore, for the heck of it, I just got on chat with them to give me an update overall, and cited them receiving the package on May 5th. It's possible that despite the email on May 16th, they could already have been processing it for 17 days now, so I figured I'd just politely check in.

The guy on chat told me that it was still in transit to the UK, despite their own system currently saying that they received it 17 days ago. At that point I was like huh? Your own system says you received it 17 days ago, and in fact, I received an email on the 16th confirming as such. 17 days is more than enough time for any and all internal systems to communicate and update, and even if not, how can the internal workings and departments be so utterly silo'd and fragmented and lacking communication?

His response was that he would forward this issue to the returns team, and that I'd hear within 48 hours. They are batting .000 on customer service followups, so I'm not holding my breath that I'll hear anything by Friday morning, but I guess we will see.

What a clown show these people are running over there - their own systems say they received it 17 days ago and the CS rep on chat can't even tell me what their own systems say.

puma1552

So, an update to the above post - the returns team of course never responded to me within 48 hours like they said they would. So, 48 hours later, I got back on the chat and asked what the deal was. I don't remember the exact details of what the conversation was (had so many convos at this point) this time, but it ended with the guy telling me he would ask the warranty team to contact me.

Lo and behold, they did. I got an email from the warranty department on Monday telling me that although the wheels were received May 5th, they still hadn't made their way to the warranty department (...) but that "However, we are beyond the agreed 14 day processing time" and that before they process a refund/replacement, tell them "what the exact fault is for our supplier." So I sent them all the emails with the NA branch of the manufacturer and sent them the word doc I typed up (both of which I had printed and included in the box with the wheels), and then lo and behold, this morning I get an email saying they've processed a refund.

I haven't seen it hit my account yet, and I wasn't sure if they had also processed a refund for the return shipping. I got on the chat this morning to ask about the return shipping and they told me it looked like they didn't do that (...) but that they should've and that he was going to contact returns to get that processed as well.

So in the end, I am finally getting my money back and *should* be out clean, back to square 1 to decide what I want to do. I guess I'll never get a resolution on if the wheels were faulty or what the fault was, and I'm not going to follow up and push it - I'm going to take the refund and run.

puma1552

Clearly nobody cares anymore but I am going to continue to document how awful this organization is to deal with.

It's been two weeks now and still, no money. Called my bank this morning, nothing in the pipeline on their end for either refund.

Lo and behold, get an email 30 minutes ago from Wiggle sales (this will be important later) telling me the refund failed, and that I need to go back and re-add my default card to my account (which is now missing) and then reply to the email to tell them to try and do the refunds again?

Umm, ok.

Go to their site, try to put in the card, can't be saved. Rogue unidentified error with saving the card data. Tried both IE and Chrome (on my work computer right now). Neither worked, same error.

What the ****.

Get on the old chat for the 500th time, get told to clear cookies, that's always the problem. Did it for both IE and Chrome, tried again, didn't work in either still.

Ask the guy, Jesus H Christ since you for some reason can't manage and seemingly now have no record whatsoever of the original card I used (........) and now my default card is missing from my account (...), and your system will now no longer accept saving a card to the account in TWO browsers with cleared cookies/website data (...), how about I JUST GIVE YOU THE CARD INFO HERE IN THE CHAT AND YOU FIGURE IT OUT MANUALLY?

"We cannot do this I am afraid, let me look into this for you."

And now here I sit, waiting again, because this is the most incompetent, disorganized company I have ever dealt with in my entire ****ing life.

So maybe we can hit 75+ days on the refund.

puma1552

"Try logging out and use this link to log in and update your card details"

Didn't work.

"Try a different device?"

Didn't work.

"Try changing your password, that will do it."

Didn't work.

"OK we have to open an IT ticket and you'll hear from us within 48 hours."

Fine, whatever.

I respond to the original sales email telling them that everything I tried didn't work (recall they did indeed tell me to respond to that mail so a human *does* read that) and that it's now on an IT ticket so I guess they have to wait.

6 hours go by and I actually get a signed personal response from a complete imbecile named Bobbi K in Wiggle support, which literally says thanks for your email (my email was to sales, not support) and for updating your card details, your refund will be processed in 3-5 days.

Seriously? SERIOUSLY??? ****ING idiots.

base2 

Well, for all your trouble, you could just fly there & sort it out in person?

I went to Vision/FSA just Friday with an old set of wheels. The guy went to the warehouse and dug through dusty old boxes. About 20 minutes later he emerged with the parts & was happy to get me back on the road. I'm pleased as punch; those parts are not listed for sale or available anywhere.

Sometimes it is worth talking to a real human in person...That's all I'm sayin'