BillyBob

I read a lot of threads last night about brake chatter and realized that no cross check owners participated in those threads. I started to wonder if I should pick up a cross check fork. Maybe this thread can figure out what doesn't work.


Edited List:

Problem Setups
2006 Lemond Poprad, Avid Shorty 4, stock pads
XXXX Douglas Project Cross, Avid Shorty 6, Kool Stop pads

Minor Issues:

XXXX Van Dessel, froggleg or 4ZA, unknown pads

Acceptable:

XXXX Kona Jake, Avid Shorty 4 or 6, Aztek pads
XXXX Soma Double Cross, Avid Shorty 4, stock pads

nowheels

With the Avid Shorty 4 or 6 try a better pad than the stock one, I am using the Aztek pads with great success on my Kona Jake. On my Van Dessel I went to a more tradational brake like a Froggleg and an 4ZA (made by Frogglegs). That was the oly thing that would quite the carbon fork and almost eliminate the shudder.

isotopesope

ok, i edited my huge drooling rant. ha!

crappy setups on my douglas project cross frame and fork (easton ultra-light tubing):
avid shorty 6's, stock cartridge pads.
avid shorty 6's, black koolstop non-cartridge pads, "normal" toe in.

decent setups on the douglas:
avid shorty 6's, black koolstop non-cartridge pads, 5mm of toe in.

i'm waiting for a real ride with my ritchey wcs carbon fork to determine the true setup quality, but it just pushing the bike around with the brake engaged, only my extreme toe in seems to be working.

good setup on my wife's soma double cross frame and fork:
avid shorty 4's, stock pads, toe in.

251

Setups that have been problematic:
Gunnar Crosshairs w/ Gunnar steel fork, Tektro Oryx cantilevers, original black cartridge pads
Gunnar Crosshairs w/ Gunnar steel fork, Tektro Oryx cantilevers, Kool-stop red cartridge pads

Setups that work well:
Gunnar Crosshairs w/ Gunnar steel fork, Paul's Neo-retro cantilevers, Kool-stop black pads
Specialized Sirrus (with a drop-bar conversion) w/ stock fork, Tektro Oryx cantilevers, Kool-stop red cartridge pads

isotopesope

251,
what levers are you using with the paul's? how was the setup on them?

JimmyMack

Sucky setup:
Ridley Crosswind with python fork. 4ZA Brakes and stock pads
Ridley Crosswind with python fork. 4ZA Brakes and kool stop pads
Ridley Crosswind with python fork. Paul neo and touring (Better but not great)

Sold the bike

Now
Kona JTS Project 2 Fork Paul Neos and touring -- works great no problems.

251

I'm using 105 9-speed STI levers. The setup is very easy; the Paul's cantis (I have neo-retro on the front and touring on the back) use v-brake pads, and adjustment is done with spherical washers. Setting the tension of the return spring for each arm is easy as well.

The feel of the neo-retro is superior to the touring brake. I would probably not use a touring brake on the front, but they are sufficient for the rear.

dragonmg

I hate front brake chatter!

Indy Fab Ti Planet X w/ Alpha Q carbon fork - fork has mega chatter without toe-in of pads. Zipp 404 Pave rims. Pauls Touring Cantis. Best results with Kool Stop Thinline pads. Been using Ritchey pads as well w/ toe in with good luck.

I have a friend (6'4" 260 lbs) who had the same setup, but we could not get the chatter out of that front fork. The braking forces required to slow him down were much greater, and when he pulled on the front brake with moderate to heavy force, the Alpha Q would chatter like crazy (which was dangerous on a road descent). We switched him over to a steel Indy Fab fork, and with a little toe-in problem solved!

In the past I have raced a steel IF Planet X with steel fork and had no problem with chatter (Pauls Touring Cantis, Velocity rims). Brake pads were toed-in.

We've built up quite a few cross bikes in our shop, and the Avid Shorty 6's on the front have been the worst when it comes to chatter and squeal.

isotopesope

251, thanks. i was curious how they would work with sti levers.

as for the pauls, i was wondering how bad the spring tension adjustment was on them. i like that they seem to be the only wide profile canti that uses spherical washers. i've read lots of folks running the neo's in the front and the touring in the rear, with great success. i was considering the same setup. would the neo's be over-kill in the back? i know calf/shoe/etc. clearance can be an issue. what sort of straddle cable height/length is everyone running on theirs?

i'm thinking new brakes are coming my way too. i've narrowed it down to either the paul's or the shimano br550's. there in lies the big hinge for me: low profile or wide profile brakes and how well each works with sti levers. i'm running ultegra 10. after this thread i'm leaning more toward paul's... though my wallet likes the shimano's better.

i want my this bike to feel comfortable and controllable. i'd like to start racing if i can get my bike dialed in. i'd love to start the 'cross season since it starts right after track season and i'd still be in shape.

Robert_in_ca

Anyone try the IRD CAFAM's?

Lectron

Use them as rear brake on two bikes (one sold). Great stuff.
Like'em better than the Avid shortys and the tektro oryx (cane creek)
For front brakes I use Paul's neo retro.

isotopesope

as an update, my avids finally! are working great now with my new ritchey wcs carbon fork. i have the pads toed in 5mm.

251

I think the neo-retros would work well on the rear. The only issue I have with the touring/neo-retro setup is the brake feel and lever travel is different front and rear. The spring tension is easy to adjust. You loosen the Allen bolt, turn the adjuster with an open-ended wrench and tighten the Allen bolt. On a side note, I was disappointed with the straddle cable carriers that came with the Paul's brakes. I used an old Avid Tri-dangle and a weird eyeball carrier; another option would be the expensive Paul's moonunits. Here are some shots on my brakes and straddle cables:

isotopesope

that bike looks sweet. thanks for all the detailed info and gorgeous photos; it's been super helpful. you've also got me shopping for paul's, even though i've got my avid's working much better. i'll probably wait though since i'm collecting materials for a custom track racing frame that my friend eric baar, ground up, is going help me to build.

i_r_beej

I'll add my USD.02...


Problematic:
2006 Poprad (stock Kenesis aluminum fork), Avid Shorty 4, stock pads

Acceptable:
2006 Poprad (stock Kenesis aluminum fork), Avid Shorty 4, Kool-Stop dual compound "Mtn Pads" (black + salmon colored material)
With this set-up i get some chatter and squeal under hard fast braking over rough terrain.

kartoffel

Shuddering at slow speed: 2007 JTS, Easton EC70X carbon fork, Avid Shorty 4, stock pads, crappy stock straddle cable.

Infinitely better: same setup, old school Diacompe hanger and raised straddle cable height.

JOHN J

MY Cross check chattered real bad.

1) first set of brakes I put on were tektro Oryx [B]nasty chatter Squeal like mad pig [/B],lousy brake anyway.

2) switched to a Nos set of Deore Lx [B]nasty chatter squeal like disturbed pig [/B]better brake though

3) tried a NOS Paul stoplight for front Nasty chatter squeal like annoyed pig , not a great brake mushy very mushy.

4) bought a Paul NEO RETRO for front nasty chatter but minimal squeal very good brake But chatter none the less.

I toed in , toed out, toed all about , toe jammed , cheap pads , black pads , red pads , pink pads chatter chatter chatter.

I finally saw a thread about how a fork crown cable stop solved the chatter problem for some

well I tried a fork crown cable stop and my chatter and squeal went away!!

My only issue is That Due to the Crown cable stop My Traverse (straddle) cable isnt near as long On the Paul Neo retro as it was using a steering tube cable stop. less room to play with for set up.
"John"