KraneXL

Below are some excerpts and comments (from another related A&S thread), as to why MUP don't work well for cyclists:

I ordered my bell before I ordered my bike. In that case, home cycling would be better. At least that way you have illusion of going somewhere other than in a circle.
I already proved that much in my earlier thread.

And nothing to some people.If you think they will all move to one side/the right, you'll be sadly disappointed. They "scatter" -- in every direction -- guaranteeing you can't avoid running into someone no matter what action you take.[quote]

You might think so, but the legality works differently. If its multi-use you have to warn pedestrians as you approach. Otherwise, you stand the chance of suffering any liability should an accident occur. See above

Pfff, like that means anything. There's no penalty, so people ignore those completely. As you can see from the video. pedestrian simple consider bike only lane as extra sidewalk.I wish that were the case where I ride. Somehow I even have to avoid peds on high-speed stretches of road that transition back to the paths.Sweet. ^^ But pedestrians, dog walkers, etc. will find the paths even when they have alternate routes. Only a physical barrier (note the fence) will keep them at bay. And even then, sometimes you'll find holes in it. Who said anything about reckless? I'm talking about not having to be the only one responsible for safety. Even a pedestrian crossing the street has the responsibility to look both ways before crossing. However, if there is an accident its not immediately the fault of the motorist. I'm not talking around a school area, I'm referring to other adults who need to share the responsibility of good sense choices for safety and awareness for themselves and their small ones. If you know cyclist share the path then its not the time or place to zone out staring at the sky. I've had instance where I've come across groups that block the entire path (even when there's room on either side) so that I had to stop, dismount, walk my bike around them then get back on and ride away. There are a million places to stand and sightsee, but only one path. The only way that will happen is if there is a physical barrier that peds can't circumvent. Even when there are two sides conspicuously marked people will still walk (casually) on the "Bike Only" side. BTW, I'm glad you said disorderly and not dangerous. MUP are not inherently dangerous except where pedestrians don't adhere to the rules.

noimagination

So, you want thousands of people to help you pay for an MUP, then you want them to stay off of it so that you can use it for your purposes and you don't have to deal with the others who helped pay for it. Or, if they do use it, you want them to use it in a way that is most conducive to your enjoyment of the MUP, not theirs.

Gotcha. Let us know how that works out for you.

Sorry, just kidding. Seriously, you have some choices: you can take the MUP as it is and enjoy it as it is; you can opt out and not use it; or you can make yourself miserable by fussing and fuming about all of the other jerks on the MUP, which has exactly zero effect on how others choose to use the public MUP. Or, I suppose (this being the Advocacy & Safety forum), you could form a group to advocate for the creation and enforcement of MUP rules with an aim towards maximizing your enjoyment of the MUP.

Personally, I choose to take the MUP as it is. It was paid for with public funds, and I'm happy to see others enjoy using it even if their use impinges upon mine. The MUP I've used is not appropriate for fitness cycling, it is appropriate for teaching kids to ride away from traffic, for other fitness uses (walking, running), for strolling and looking at nature, and for dog walkers. That's just how it is.

KraneXL

And therein lies the inherent problem: if paths are for kids to "learn to ride" then where do they go to ride when they grow up? As for the remaining, can't all of the rest be done just as effectively -- and even safer -- in parks and other safer recreational areas?

Since we're talking about taxpayer supported facilities consider for a moment you and your friends, family, etc. gathered in the park for a picnic, ball game or other outdoor recreational activity when someone on a bike decides to ride around and through where you are set up.

That likely wouldn't sit very well with most folks even though the ride could claims the park belongs to everyone. What would be your immediate response/suggestion to the cyclist?

Most likely you'd suggest they go use the path. Which would be an appreciate suggestion if the situation were ideal. Meanwhile, your group gets to chose either area and can freely encroach on all sections of the MUP including those specifically designated and marked for the purpose of cycling only. Funny how people tend to think only of things to their advantage, and not to the advantage of others. Go figure.

wphamilton

Big advantages to the MUP (some of them) that sometimes makes up for all of these "fail" reasons: nice cool shade during these 100°+ heat index days, relatively flat, and you don't deal with vehicular traffic. When you're not trying to ride fast, or doing intervals or something else totally inappropriate, it can be a great ride.

KraneXL

https://emojipedia.org/man-biking/

Nightcap

Doohickie

Wait. One thread of this crap wasn't enough?

KraneXL

I don't know of a single soul that thinks that. Do you? You didn't read it. Its not the same Timmy. Similar subject but one is Safety, the other Advocacy.

Doohickie

It's still crap.

genec

MUPs "fail" because cyclists tend to treat other MUP users like motorists treat cyclists riding on public streets.

squirtdad

mups mean multi-use, not cylists rule Yes, as a cyclist you have to watch out for others and yes it is frustrating. Deal with it or ride elsewhere. The MUPS in area are that, there are none labled for cycling only and on average there are way more other users than cylists.

The only fail is the self-centered focus of this thread

KraneXL

I have yet to find a MUP like that. Every single one I've tried has been dominated -- overwhelmingly -- by pedestrian. Because I have to watch out for everybody going in all directions, my average speed on the MUP is 1/2 of what it is on the road with constant traffic signals and stop signs. You didn't read any of my posts did you?

CliffordK

It may really depend on one's MUP, and time of day.



Around here, most of the MUPS are heavily used by cyclists, walkers, etc.. but there is generally enough space that one can get quite some distance between having to slow down and yield to pedestrians.

So, the big question.
If cyclists can't share a Multi-Use-Path with pedestrians and joggers...
Should cars share roads with bicycles?

KraneXL

Not only are there laws to the road, there are enforcers and penalties for violating them. No such instance exist on MUPs. So no, Clifford that's not a adequate parallel. In any event, since nobody's reading maybe this video will help explain.

mr_bill

Another bridge, another river, same result.

See wow well "enforcement" is working here?

-mr. bill

FrenchFit 

FrenchFit 

I'd say cyclists here are pretty much 'entitled' when is comes to using MUPs. If you walk in the middle of the path, don't hard leash your dog, let you kid run wild ... you will get yelled at. As crazy as MUPS are, I'd say the non-cycling users up here are pretty well trained.

I feel a little uncomfortable saying it, but Critical Mass' angry activism in Norcal seems to have cemented a 'don't screw with us' attitude between cyclists and the rest of the community & politicians, plus all the good works done by our biking coalitions working with local govts. Then again, maybe it is wishful thinking on my part...

mr_bill

squirtdad

the local mups get police enforcing the 15mph speed limit and dogs of leash, etc

DaveZ

Agreed.
Around here there are more cyclists, but it depends where you are. The locations closer to parking lots have more pedestrians. On weekends, the locations close to the river raft rental places are full of kids carry rafts right down the middle of the path. Etc.
You can either get mad or not.
Everyone has the right to use the bike trail.

FBOATSB

🚴 Why MUPs Fail

Who says MUPs fail? Are they being closed and abandoned or are they growing in use, length, and location more and more every year? I use mine all the time and never had any massive pileups with pedestrians, takes a little self control. Worst is other bike riders in race mode. Last year got sideswiped by some kid passing too close, neither of us went down though. No one yelled either.

CliffordK

Pedestrian/Bicycle separated MUPS are rare around here.



I think that means cyclists beware of GIANTS.

Nonetheless, I find it most comfortable to ride to the right. I don't think I passed King Kong on that path.

Bike Path bridges are unique, and at least around here, there are often pedestrians loitering on the bridges. Yet, 100 yards and one is across the river, and off down the path again.

I tried a freeway hop a while ago... Nice wide shoulders, right? It didn't occur to me that they narrowed the shoulders for the bridge... next time back onto the path.

Many MUPS are owned and maintained by the parks departments, not the highway departments.

I'm trying to remember the history of the MUPS in Eugene/Springfield. I think they pretty much took a couple of existing parks and expanded the paths through them, and beyond.

It is hard to claim the parks should restrict users.

genec

Hey, this is EXACTLY what motorists say about cyclists on public streets. "Those dang bikers cause me so much delay..."

Almost the same words. Certainly the same sentiment.

genec

Agreed... they are difficult to negotiate with, tend to use ninja methods (subtle color blending) and often cross at right angles to the direction of traffic... they also never signal and tend to take off in wild directions when approached. They are the real bane to organized MUP users.

KraneXL

A shared paths implies equal access and use. However, I've never seen any cyclist occupying or continuous riding on the pedestrian side. However, I can't say the same for the reverse.

As a motorist, I've never said that. Knowing full well a single cyclist can do little to disrupt my means of travel. In fact, when I see a cyclist, I give him a thumbs up, knowing that he represents one less car on the road I have to contend with.