bikemig 

I was excited when I found this Motobecane Grand Record on Craigslist late last year and I've been looking forward to rebuilding it. I'm guessing it's a '72 or '73. The parts don't quite match the catalog but the Campagnolo rear derailleur is a '72 so it can't be earlier than that. The paint is in decent shape. There are a lot of scratches but I can touch them up. The parts are remarkably clean. They all look shiny and in good shape. I suspect this bike was largely a garage queen that has been knocked around a fair bit (hence the scratches). The bike came to me almost completely original other than the pedals, saddle, and seatpost. The parts are as follows:

(1) campagnolo NR derailleurs
(2) Pivo bar and stem
(3) TA crankset
(4) stronglight headset
(5) maillard luxe hubs and weinmann rims
(6) weinmann 610 centerpulls

I love finding old bikes like with almost all the parts in great shape.

So here are the pics:



Moto GR as found in the wild


Moto GR parts


Moto GR frame


Moto GR frame

bikemig 

So I need to get to work and make some decisions.

First, I need to clean off the frame and touch up the paint job. Once I have it ready, I'll wax it a few times before building it up.

Second, I need to make some decisions about the parts.

I may go with a different wheelset. I overhauled the original wheels (you know it's a good day when you have the right tool for an old French freewheel and the thing comes off easily) but I have no idea whether the hub is French threaded or not. I have a set of 5 speed wheels with sun CR 18 27 inch rims and Shimano hi flange 333 hubs. The hubs are "wrong" for the bike but they look good and there's a lot to be said for hook beaded rims.

The other question is gearing. I'd like to run a 14-28 but that's a bit of a crap shoot with a campy NR rear derailleur. I'd also like to run smaller chainrings up front (maybe a 46/34) but I'll need to track down a 34 tooth TA chainring (I have the 46 outer). I also need to track down a 26.6 seatpost. I'll use a Brooks professional saddle. I haven't decided on the pedals yet but I'm leaning towards lyotard 460s. The bike originally came with atom 700 pedals but the lyotards will let me run a wider shoe.

I'll update this as I do more work. I need to get this done before this ride happens,

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...rail-ride.html

noobinsf 

What a great find! I absolutely LOVE my Grand Record. You won’t be disappointed.

sykerocker 

In your comment that the bike doesn't quite manage the catalog, one of the things you need to keep in mind that that '72-73 was the height of the Bike Boom, and all French manufacturers were struggling to ship enough product to the US. Which means they'd be substituting parts just to keep production levels up.

You're lucky, at least you got all European parts. You knew things were getting bad in the production department if a French firm started substituting Japanese components.

bikemig 

Right, that's why it doesn't matter that the bike doesn't quite match the existing catalogs. I know they switched things up a lot. The parts on this bike are terrific and of the right generation. I may muddy things up though if I go with the sun cr 18 wheels laced to shimano hi flange 333 hubs! That bugs me a bit but there's a lot to be said about a modern hook beaded rim. I'll need to figure out whether the maillard lux hubs are french threaded or not. I don't think they are . . .

Also I believe the bike did come stock with a Japanese seat post.

SurferRosa

The RD will have a tougher time with those rings than the 28t cog.

Unless you go to a Soma long cage, keep the chainring difference to 10t, and you should be fine.

52telecaster

The soma long cage is a great solution for wider gearing, as for t.a. rings, u can get them from 26 to whatever in 2 tooth steps if u look hard enough.

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/ta-chainrings.php#pro5

https://store.somafab.com/sonuredecapl.html

bikemig 

Thanks guy. Yeah TA rings can be found new. I've been searching around on ebay. I have a 32 TA ring which is a bit beat and I may try out a 46/32 combo. I'm trying to spend as little money on this build as possible,

I'm pretty sure that the front campy derailleur can handle 14 teeth. The rear derailleur has a chain wrap of 26 teeth so in theory I'll be okay if I run a 14-26 freewheel.

VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo 1020/A, Nuovo Record v3 (w/ spring, solid rivets)

bikemig 

I'm with you on this as well. I'm a little skeptical of how far you can push campy NR derailleurs but the paper specs look promising.

It looks like the campy front derailleur can handle a 12 or even a 14 tooth jump.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-capacity.html

The rear derailleur in theory can handle 26 teeth of chain wrap and a max cog of 26

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-capacity.html

But there are a lot of variable on this and folks here have run 28 or even larger freewheels with a campy NR RD. Still the moto came with a 12 tooth jump up front (52/40) and a 14-26 freewheel which means it can handle at least 24 teeth of wrap.

rustystrings61 

For whatever it is worth, if those are the same hubs that were marketed as Normandy Luxe Competition, they were meant to go head to head with Campagnolo. Their only Achilles heel is the lack of replacement cones. If you're talking about riding 27-in tires either way, I'd slap a set of Panaracer Pasela in 1 & 1/4 on the stock rims, inflate to 70 psi and be done with it. I have been shocked at just how smooth and swift those tires at that pressure are, and while I really liked it on wheels with the plain-Jane Normandy Sport hubs, the same tires on Normandy Luxe Comps is eye-opening. I've come to the conclusion that above 70 psi on 32 mm or 1 1/4-in tires might feel faster but that's just road noise. Good tires make all the difference in the world!

bikemig 

Yeah they're Normandy luxe comp hubs laced to weinman rims. One cone in the rear is a bit scored so needs replacement but frankly I'd ride it. On an old bike, sometimes you just live with parts that aren't perfect. I was thinking of putting up a wtb for the cones but I know how hard they are to find. The front hub is really interesting because it takes 12 3/16 ball bearings.

I'm not sure if the hub is English threaded or not.

The original weinmann rims aren't hook beaded though and the CR 18s are laced to those shimano hubs are.

I reckon you're right though and it doesn't matter much as long as I don't run those tires much past 70s psi. There is something cool about running a bike with all original parts.

But shouldn't you use a tire with a wire bead with a rim without a hook bead?

rustystrings61 

I run wire-bead blackwall Paselas and they work way better than they have any right to - especially since they came on a $9.99 clunker challenge bike from a couple of years back! My Normandy Luxe Competition hubs have scored cones as well, and initially I thought I would just run them until I found something better - but they're ridiculously smooth running, and sometimes even I know enough to leave well enough alone.

Is there a single groove between the threaded portion of the rear hub and the flange on that side? If memory serves me, that groove is an indicator that the hub is threaded ISO/English rather than French.

bikemig 

There are no markings on the hub or freewheel. Sutherlands is pretty good on this and it says that some atom freewheels are marked with a punch mark on the back in which case they're English. So I'm not confident that the hub/freewheel is French or not.

I guess I can use a bottom bracket cup to check the hub threading:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html

I find that the teeth on Japanese freewheels are a better shaped than on the older European ones but the atom freewheel uses a nice splined remover like the Shimanos do which is better than the 2 or 4 prong designs.

unworthy1

Probably correct about this being around '73 given the plastic headbadge and decal set, the round badge was introduced in '74 but color scheme otherwise the same for this black/red version. Do you know if it has all 531 DB (I would think yes)? My '74 had a straight alloy post with steel clamp so no country of origin on that but OEM was a Brooks Pro saddle and Nitto stem, and not the TA Cyclotouriste crankset (3-pin instead).

nlerner

Cool project! I'm working on your frame's sibling: same paint scheme, same headbadge, assume it's a '73. I got it as a bare frame + crankset/bb, so a blank canvas. I have found that it fits 650B x 38mm tires with lots of room to spare (i.e., room for fenders) and likely could go to 42mm tires. Currently it has Weinmann 750 centerpull brakes with drop pads on the rear for extra reach, but I'm considering sending it out to a certain Altier in Portland, OR, for a some canti-stud installation.

bikemig 

Yeah the cyclotourist crank makes it a bit hard to date as the '73 and earlier bikes came I think with stronglight cranks. Still parts got switched around a lot during the boom years. I believe the early moto GRs had a 531 DB main triangle and fork and became full 531 DB around '77. The 531 stickers are toast on my bike so I can't read the main triangle sticker.

bikemig 

These could be twins; heck they even had the same crank. I love the old 531 stickers. I wish mine hadn't disappeared but there's always velocals. This bike deserves the full Gugie treatment, . The paint will become toast though, right? The paint on my bike is scaly and scratched up but it's mainly intact so I'm just waxing it and riding it.

jeirvine 

My '72 Grand Record is running a TA 52/36 with a NR front derailleur no problem.

unworthy1

according to the published 1974 specs for the US-market GR, it's open to interpretation, see the attached screengrab: the GR had "REYNOLDS 531 double butted tubing" but the GJ lists only "main tubes" while the Le Champ has "...butted tubing throughout". However I will say mine has the decal that states "ALL 531 DB" but we know decals can be deceiving (as can catalogs)!
Another point: was not paying close attention cause
the color scheme is same between the "73" and "74" EXCEPT for the head tube and lugs where they are OPPOSITE from each other (tube and lugs colors)

ryansu

Drool @bikemig from a slightly jealous 78 MotoGT owner. I have seen a GR once in person, in the Mariners bike lock up in the parking garage when I rode to a baseball game last season. It was a bit dark in the garage but I took pics anyway since I never see these (and only rarely a Grand Jubilee) , looks like it is doing commuter duty.

bikemig 

Yeah you might be right. I thought at first that meant that the GR had only main tubes and fork Reynolds in the early 70s but maybe it's full Reynolds. Certainly the weight is in line with the Le Champion and the Jubilee says main tubes only. Who knows but I like your interpretation better than mine,

bikemig 

The grand tourer is a heck of a nice bike. I used to own and ride a super mirage.

Yes I was very lucky to find this bike on CL. It's the first I've seen and I've been looking on and off for a while.

big chainring 

I bought a Grand Record in '73. Got interested in racing and bought a LeChampion a couple years later, and turned the GR into a "track" bike. I put track wheels on it, took off the brakes, and used an 1/8" chain on the road chainring. The chain would start popping and grinding like mad in races. But it worked.

ryansu

I rebuilt a Super Mirage and found that it fit like a glove but I had no room for it and moved it on, but I never forgot the fit and looked on and off for Moto GT for about two years and finally scored one on local CL in 2015 and finally got around to the full spa treatment last summer. Have fun with your GR



post rebuild

cqlink 

I run the original Normandy Luxe high flange hubs on my '72. Polished and repacked with Phil grease. They ride and look great. I see (or feel) no difference with Campy Record high flange hubs.