bulldog1935

I ride greenways for pleasant, cool, mostly mindless miles free of vehicle traffic (occasional park-worker Cushman). My headlight is always on, usually ring my bell twice for every pedestrian going my direction. I always expect the worst to happen and always expect to panic stop.

Today the older couple guided right when I first rang the bell. But their inbred yap pooch was on a 20' yo-yo and headed straight across the left side of the trail. It would have been like Steve McQueen capturing the motorcycle in The Great Escape.

I hate yo-yo leashes. I hate it when the dog is the brains of the outfit.
Every one of my dogs was heel-trained - they kept their eyes even with my knees, walked miles upon miles that way, and were always on the outside of the trail.
Yo-yo leashes are for people too lazy to heel-train their dogs, and they should be outlawed on greenways/MUP.



I did once see a woman who had thought about it, and her yo-yo leash was like a neon-yellow boa.

genec

The problem, as you put it, is that people walk greenways for pleasant, cool, mostly mindless miles free of vehicle traffic... the latter including bicycles.

Maelochs

What you need are Spartacus-style front hubs ...

bulldog1935

it's a 25-mi long one-way, that's a helluva walk

the part of the greenway I was on, I only ride on weekdays (this was actually Friday - yesterday). It's nutso on weekends, and the problem then are the bikes - way too many.

I still hate yo-yo leashes.

baron von trail 

I can't count the number of times a dog has lunged at me as I rode by. It always startles me, even when I am sort of expecting it.

Leisesturm

BD, at the possible risk of sounding unsympathetic... I think you expect too much. MUP's are for everyone, and as a two under par trail user you have to always be thinking of your obligatory three stroke handicap when you are cycling among the heathen. Way too many I's and me's in your rant. They have no place in an objective discussion. Olive branch: nice rig. Cork grips, Nitto stem, B17(?) saddle.

OldTryGuy

Forget about GREENWAYS, around here it is the IDIOT HUMAN walking on one side of the street and the INTELLIGENT DOG at the end of the yo-yo on the other side of the street.

canklecat

Yup, stray pooches are why I like my 700x40 most-terrain tires at 50-60 psi, below the maximum suggested. Climbs better over doggie haunches.

Semi-seriously, I try to accommodate wandering, wayward and wobbling joggers, doggers and kidlets by always being prepared for evasive action. On most of our MUP there's wide enough grass and a nearby gravel trail to divert my path and go around the human and canine pinballs. But I had to learn the hard way to reduce the tire pressure to safely navigate the tricky stuff like ledges and gaps between the paved trail and grass or gravel.

And I'm seriously considering even fatter tires after I wear these out. I'm not fast anyway, so I might as well enjoy my 12 mph loafing pace as safely as possible.

Maelochs

I don't ride MUPs so I don't have to deal with as much, but even in suburbia ... the dog owner is obliged legally to control the dog at all time unless in a free-run dog park, which means having the dog on a 20-foot spool is Not in compliance with the law if the owner doesn't lock the leash short when another person passes.

If the dog, leashed or not, can reach another person who is giving the dog what should be sufficient berth, then the dog is not in control and the owners are liable.

If it were me I might flop on the grass, screaming "My neck is broken! I am paralyzed. Your dog made me crash! I am suing!"

Seriously, MUP or even on the edge of the dog owner's yard ... if the leash is long enough that the dog can reach another person who is giving the animal reasonable room, the owners are at fault.

MUP means cyclists have a right to use the road safely same as dogs and dog owners.

Walk a Rottweiler on a 20-foot spool and let it run across the whole path to "play" with other dogs and see how the dog owners like it. I bet the animal cops get called.

Miele Man

Irresponsible dog walkers who use a retractable leash can be a real hazard to a bicyclist. A few weeks ago I was riding along a paved path in a park I sometimes take a shortcut through. A couple were walking along the path and I went to ride around them and nearly got my front wheel "clotheslined" by the thin retractable leash that was attached to their dog who was just inside the bushes at the edge of the path. That leash was very nearly invisible and if i had not had slowed down to pass the people I'd have hit that leash and most likely would have been dumped.

I avoid the rail trails around here whenever there are a number of people on them. As others mentioned upthread; a lot of people using rail trails or MUP do so to avoid traffic. Unfortunately in avoiding the traffic those people also totally turn off their situational awareness. Bicyclists have to be extra vigilant around walkers especially small dog walkers where both the dog and the retractable leash can be hidden from the view of the bicyclist.

Cheers

funbikerchick

The problem is not the leash, it is the person at the end of the leash. I use retractable leashes all the time. However, I am always aware of my surroundings. When a person, car, bike, whatever, is approaching, I immediately lock up the leash in anticipation.

bulldog1935

I have never had a problem with a roaming dog when on a bike. (If you actually read my opening post, it proves I'm not expecting anything - I specifically said I expect the worst and am always prepared for a panic stop). And of course, my OP was composed as a rant, not a discussion. What follows it should be discussion, about the topic, not about me. (this thing is never on)

My buddy and I have been working several years to find the perfect route from downtown to his northside borough.
We finally found it, and it's great. What makes it great is going through neighborhood streets that parallel the major thoroughfares (get us across those at safe places, across a creek - think LA River - and under two major highways). The route is nice - when we climb out of Olmos Basin and pick up Mandalay, the houses there have 3 addresses...
But there are always dogs. The key with a dog is not to get excited.
Because he's already excited, and if he senses anxiety, you ramp up the equation.
Otherwise, he'll just follow you to the end of his perceived turf, and feel really good that he ran you off.
(Actual strays are never a problem - they are afraid of everything.)

Ahearne Map bars on Technomic stem, Paul brakes, B17 Select, which is the only one that lasts...(My Special with about the same miles has stretched to the point that it needs a toe strap after each ride, and that's the precursor to lacing it - which I've done before)
I ride Many miles - at 129 today for the week, and riding again tomorrow

Maelochs

I've seen that bike in other threads ... it is a beautiful thing.

I cannot agree that merely not getting excited by dogs is enough. I usually simply ignore them ... but I am always still very aware, because whoever is in the right or not, a dog can either spill me and hurt me, or get hurt, and neither is acceptable. I never trust the dog or the people ... I slow down because I do trust myself.

We have an older couple (by which I mean, a little younger than I) in the neighborhood who walk several dogs at once sometimes. You have to know, if anything really happens, that none of those dogs would be "controlled." Three would go three ways and the fourth would run right over the person holding the leashes, and it would be dogs everywhere.

I annoyed an old girlfriend (hard to imagine, I know) when I said I didn't like choker leashes, or the ones with the prongs. She explained that her giant dog was so strong she didn't have even a chance of controlling him without those prongs.

I didn't bother to tell her that if he was sufficiently aroused, the momentary pain from those prongs before he pulled free and did whatever the flock he wanted, wouldn't be even the slightest deterrent. But when I see folks walking huge dogs, I sometimes think of her.

Don't tell her that ... she might take it wrong.

bulldog1935

thanks
3 dogs is a bad thing. 2 dogs are just 2 dogs - they may be more than the handler can handle. But 3 dogs is a pack, and has a mind of its own.

Rather than ignore them, I always talk to dogs and tell them they're good.

ps - there are a lot of people on the trail who handle their dogs wonderfully - they tend to be the same people who greet you and thank you for your bike bell.
But there is no reason for a person walking a dog with a yo-yo leash on a greenway to let the dog out. There is also no reason for a person walking a dog to be mindless of their dog....it's every bit as much a responsibility as passing blinded pedestrians on a bike.

ItsJustMe

Retractible leashes are usually illegal. Most places that require leashes stipulate a 6 foot leash.

SugarMonkey

My dog hates people on bikes. Bikes are fine, people are fine, but put the two together and he flips out. I pretty much treat all dogs as if they belong in the "I'm gonna flip the hell out" category as a precaution.

Photodoug

Local MUP,approaching from behind a group of two pedestrians followed by a woman on blades with three dogs pulling her wherever they want to go. Sensing a possible tricky situation, I slow down considerably and announce "passing."

Just as I close the distance, skate woman goes left into my path without ever looking over her shoulder.

I slow to her speed and wait for her to clear the pedestrians and move back to the right. As I creep past her I ask if she did not hear me. She responded that she was passing too and "that was what brakes were for," then proceeded to chew me out. I suggested she calm down and enjoy the beautiful morning then rode away.

I hope she doesn't drive that way, but that's what brakes are for.

CB HI

^^
You are both approaching pedestrians and you did not anticipate her passing them.

berner

There is no such thing as mindless miles, especially when riding a bike and most especially riding on a MUP.

Photodoug

She was moving at the pace of the pedestrians until her dogs decided to speed up. The three looked like a single group. Her situational awareness was zero.

bulldog1935

I finished 155 mi for the week today, and none of them were quite mindless. The last today were in downtown traffic - light early morning traffic, though - but riding the remote sections of the greenways doesn't pose the same demands as riding with cars and intersections.
There's always an editor...for the third time, I always expect the worst, and I always expect to panic stop.


It's interesting - riding in streets is safer in large groups.
Riding on greenways becomes dangerous when groups are also riding them - riders in the group have a tendency to pass mindlessly, following the rider in front of them. Throw in pedestrians, hills and blind curves, and the situation gets out of hand.



There was a half-marathon in the lower remote section of yesterday's greenway ride. It can be tough to get some of those guys to move over, as they often run 4 and 5 abreast - many nice folks, but just as many run-grouches.
I also had the kid chasing me for 8 miles, doing everything he could to pass me, but he wasn't really riding my pace, especially up hills.
Pace was also a factor, because my pace was 33 miles, and he was riding 16. He finally did pass me in a gravel rough, dropped his cell phone just as he did, and I called him back to it.
He and his partner caught up and were friendly at the next trailhead stop, but the one didn't like getting smoked by an old man.

CB HI

And you forgot to include that in your rant? Hum...




.

bulldog1935

sled dogs...she should train them properly

CB HI

Photodoug:

Now you delete your rant about cyclist that ride too fast for you. Sounds like you need to build your own personal path.

Chris0516

Hmmm.....Another dog thread.