JochenRindt

Just for the sake of curiosity, which one is stronger and/or will last longer?

Eric F 

How long do you need it to last? There are examples of both that are many decades old, and still in great condition.

JochenRindt

I have a LeMond with 853 tubing that is more than twenty years old and has at least 15k miles on it. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I'm worried that one day when I'm cleaning it, I'll see a crack in one of the welds.

shelbyfv

Not an issue. Either will outlive you unless you abuse it. Most cyclists would put that mileage on the LeMond in 2 or 3 years so don't worry.

jadmt

I know given a choice I would always chose lugs just for looks.

easyupbug 

Depends a lot on the builder. I did a lot of non-distructive testing in my early working years managing maintenance in heavy industry and learned to respect welding/brazing artisans, agree with the above but that said look at the welds on a Moots vamoots titanium frame. They look like a stack of dimes, just gorgeous, nothing like the weld splatter you see on my LeMond Zurich and TI is much more difficult to weld.

georges1

On a steel road frame I prefer lugs or fillet brazing, on an aluminium road frame tig welding with polished welds. I have steel road bikes with lugs and others which are filet brazed that are nearly 25-30 years that are in very good condition.

datlas 

Both are fine and I am pretty sure neither is inherently more durable, that will depend on the frame builder and luck.

Aesthetically lugs are better but that’s just me.

Jeff Neese

I think you'll get the same answers from this group that you got here:

Are lugged steel frames stronger than TIG welded

mstateglfr 

Steel frames can develop cracks regardless of if they are lugged, welded, or fillet brazed.
When done properly, they are all strong and all reliable.

mstateglfr 

Most cyclists ride 5000-7500mi a year? mmm, nope.
Passive insult fail.

Koyote

I have a LeMond with 853 tubing that has been ridden well over 40k miles, which includes plenty of rain, snow, and racing miles. Still works fine. Your concern is unwarranted.

Trakhak

FYI, for the first decades of bicycle fabrication, all bikes were brazed or welded. That required precise mitering and skilled labor. Lugs came into general use by bike companies to speed up production and enable the use of semi-skilled workers. Ironic that cost-conscious lugged construction eventually became an art form.

Schwinn, having pioneered their "electro-forging" lugless frame construction technique, was the first bike manufacturer to provide a lifetime frame guarantee. Much, I imagine, to the dismay of other bike companies, who then had to match the guarantee, at least if they wanted to compete with Schwinn in the U.S.

big john

Sometimes frames break. Worrying about it won't change that. I had a steel frame break at the headtube lug, another break around the bottom bracket shell. Still another break at the non drive side dropout. Also broke an aluminum frame at the seat tube to bb weld.
Seen other people's aluminum frames break in weird places, like the middle of the downtube and the top of a seat stay.

Chinghis

I always wonder about those lifetime frame guarantees. I still have the receipt for my StumpJumper, so would Specialized honor it some day if the frame failed? (I can't even imagine what that would mean ...) I bought it in 1993, and they don't even make steel frames anymore. Huh.

Eric F 

Oh..wait! The 53cm Lemond 853 frames were known to suddenly fail, and are highly dangerous. If your frame is 53sm size, it should be disposed of immediately at a Certified 53cm Lemond 853 Disposal Facility. Lucky for you, I am an operator of one of those facilities. Contact me for details on how to properly and safely dispose of your frame.

Bob Ross

I own one of each. I expect them both to outlive me.

HelpSingularity 

Glug, glug, glug I love lugs

But fillet brazed is cool too!

shelbyfv

OK, now that I ponder it I realize lots of folks can't ride year round so knock off 1/3 for the snowbound. The point is that's not much mileage on the frame.

jadmt

an awful lot of beautiful right there.

LarrySellerz

Not to highjack, but are there are egg considerations between braised and tig welded? Choosing between a hand braised one that claims to be fancier vs the tig welded one. Internet seems to suggest no difference. Wabi classic vs special.

Eric F 

FYI...Brazed and braised are not the same thing.

Trakhak

I worked over the years in various bike stores that carried Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, Raleigh, Schwinn, etc., etc. Every warranty claim was handled on its own merits.

Frame cracks that were not completely obviously the result of crashes (e.g., valid claims such as a crack at a chainstay/dropout junction or across the top of a seat stay or at a seat tube/bottom bracket junction) almost always netted a new frame.

Then there were the more iffy claims: "I was just riding along and the fork suddenly bent, and the top tube and down tube suddenly bent backward for no reason, too." (Known in the trade as JRA/"just riding along" stories.) Some awkward conversations could occur.

That was in the days of almost universal lifetime frame warranties in the U.S. I understand that warranties on frames have become less liberal more recently.

But your Specialized would have carried a lifetime frame warranty, and it would still be in effect today. If you experience a frame failure with that bike and it wasn't caused by a crash or some other obvious external force that the frame wasn't designed to withstand, you can probably safely assume that the claim will be handled in a common-sense manner.

At that, the dealer and the Specialized sales rep would be motivated to accept any claims that are not obviously outrageous, since doing so might get them good word of mouth, whereas denying claims can do the reverse. That's how it routinely worked in my bike shop days, anyway.

big john

When my Trek steel frame broke they didn't make that model any longer. They offered me an aluminum frame or store credit toward anything I wanted. I chose the store credit and used it to buy a Landshark frame.
I was very happy with the way the Trek rep handled it.

Chinghis

I'll give them tons of good word of mouth! And it would be a great marketing story - 30+ year old Specialized gives up the ghost after decades of use!

Cool, that sounds like the route to go down. Hopefully, the bike will outlast me