AWillZ

Currently have a Ridley Damocles frame with Dura Ace 7800 10 speed - 50 34 crank 12 - 27 casette. I live and ride in a hilly place and need sometimes need lower gearing than 34 - 27...would like a 30 tooth cog on the casette. I know that the 7800 derailleur (as good as it is) can't handle a 30 tooth cog so I am thinking about converting to 11 speed. The latest mechanical Dura Ace group is out of my price range - especially for a frame that is 9 years old but I am considering Campy Chorus or Ultegra. If it matters the wheels are HED Ardennes with HED hubs

Questions - 1. Will there be any issues with spacing on the rear wheel and 2. Is there any difference in spacing between Campy and Ultegra. I would prefer to go Campy. The Dura Ace 7800 has been superb but I also have had Chrous 9 speed on my last bike and I like the "tactile" feel of Campy. I would go Ultegra if the "fit" was better and not sure I can even do it at all. I can measure the distance on the drop outs if necessary
Thanks!

caloso

My guess is that you'll just need to swap free hub bodies. Check out https://hedcycling.com/hed-hub-bodies/

(I did a similar thing with some Easton Wheels, so I could use a really nice Chorus/Centaur 10-speed group that was just gathering dust in a bin.)

rccardr 

Least expensive way to do this is to buy a 9 speed Deore RD, 10 speed chain and a cassette (that Deore will shift up to a 34, easy).

All else is way more bucks.

tomtomtom123

You can look on the specs site.
https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/sp...r%20Derailleur

To use your existing shifter, there is only the rd5701gs for 10 speed road that goes up to 32t for$35, but I don't know which cable pull ratio it uses. You need to check it. The rdr3000gs for 9 speed road goes up to 34t for $20. There are several MTB 9 speed that go up to 34 or 36t and possibly cheaper down to $15.

Going from 27t to 30t is only 11%. You might as well go lower. 34t would give you 26%. I mixed my own 12-34t 10 speed cassette. If you want closer cassette spacing then you need to use a smaller inner chainring but if you have 110bcd then you're stuck with minimum 33t. Otherwise you could try a triple crank that has 74bcd and use it as a double.

tFUnK

Easiest way to get a 30t cassette is to get a 9 speed Shimano mountain rear derailleur. Before you do that though you can check to see whether your current 7800 rear derailleur actually can clear the 30t. From personal experience I was able to run a 32t cassette on my 6700 rear derailleur but that's using a 34/46t crankset so chain wrap capacity wasn't an issue for me. I'm guessing the 7800, even if it clears the 30t large cog, may run into chain wrap capacity issues with 34/50.

cpach

Another option not mentioned above is that while most 11 speed cassettes require a wider freehub body, Shimano 11 speed 11-34 cassettes do not (the 34t cog overhangs towards the spokes like 11 speed MTB cassettes do), so you can use them with a Shimano 11 speed drivetrain with a GS derailleur on your 10 speed freehub body.

11 speed Shimano/Campagnolo have essentially the same cog spacing, but you probably have a 10 speed Shimano freehub, and 11 speed Campagnolo derailleurs only have an official max cog of 32t, so you could probably hack it all together but I wouldn't. If you can get a Campagnolo freehub body for your hub you're golden, as they're compatible all the way up to 12 speed.

Another option for lower gearing would be a subcompact crank, depending on how much you need to maintain your current top end. A 46/30 cassette would also likely get you the low gear you're looking for, and the loss of top end will mostly matter if you sprint (particularly in a group) or are very attached to pedaling down hills at all times.

Also if all you want is a jump up to 30t--I've run a few setups that have a published max cog of 27 with a 30t with good results, but results will certainly vary.

AWillZ

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. There is no way on earth that I would put a Deore or any mountain bike rear D on that bike...I know that is bike snob but I wouldn't be able to ride it, just could not. So if it will fit I will most likely go with Chorus 11 and just pay the thousand $

jbucky1

Im glad you said that. Panache is panache

- james
www.buckyrides.com

jbucky1

You should try a Wolftooth Road link before you buy a full new groupo. Cheap to try and I know some people have had success.

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink

- james
www.buckyrides.com

woodcraft

This is like saying "my shoes are tight so I'm going to buy a new suit".

Get one of these: https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...l=1&ssn=875186

a cassette and chain, and avoid this massive confusion.

rccardr 

(shrugs shoulders)

Right tool for the job...

tomtomtom123

You know that there isn't much difference between the different levels of road Rd and MTB Rd? Most of it is the parallelogram length for the max cog size, slight difference in material and paint on the cage plates, and the pulley bearings? (And cable pull ratio and shadow on some MTB rd)
For the bearings, some people replace the jockey wheels anyway with the tacx wheels with cartridge bearings. So it doesn't matter if you're using the most expensive derailleur available.

bldegle2

Not a fan of extensions, puts too much force on the hanger. Nothing the matter with a GS. To the OP, yes, maybe a short cage is cool in your mind, but most of the people I ride with use a GS so the 34 is very reachable on the cassette, running a compact 50/34 up front....lots of hills in the SF/Oakland Bay area...

Miele Man

Says optimized for 10 and 11 speeds. Would it work on a 9-speed or on a 7-speed system?

Cheers

cpach

The price between Chorus 11 and 12 isn't major--I'd go 12 if you're going to do it. Aside from the additional gear, I think the lever shape, shifter feel, and shift speed is better in 12 sp.

AWillZ

Just concerned about the spacing for either 11 or 12 sp. I wanted to do this myself but looks like I will have to have it done at the shop

cpach

The frame spacing is the same 8-12 speed road in all brands.

If you want to run Campagnolo you really should get a Campagnolo freehub body on your wheel and use a Campagnolo cassette. If you wanted to you may be able to get away using a Shimano 11 speed 11-34 cassette with Campagnolo 11 speed, but you'll technically be exceeding the derailleur capacity by 2 and I personally would not recommend this setup.

Campagnolo uses the same freehub body for 8-12 speeds. 12 speed isn't really more difficult to set up or work on.

woodcraft

I've only used it on ten speed, but have seen at least one report of success on 8 speed- it's all pretty much the same

so should be fine.

AWillZ

if the spacing is good, I will go with Chorus 11 or 12 - either is OK so long as I can get a 30 tooth cog for a 50 34 crank. I don't race any more. - can hang on the flats and rolling but need the gear for the steep climbs! Have an affinity for Campy as I road Nuovo Record friction, down tube shifters on my Guerciotti SL (wish I still had that frame) and Chorus 9 speed on a Ti frame back in the day.

appreciate the comments - thoughtful and well intended and I thank all who contributed

HTupolev

Do what your heart tells you I guess, but beyond the decal, putting a long-cage road rear derailleur on a bike is roughly the same thing as putting an older MTB rear derailleur on a bike.

AWillZ

not about the decal...I don't care about that...its about road

cpach

Campy is nice, I doubt you'll regret it. If you're doing it go all in with 12 speed, 11-34. If you feel you need to go from 27-30, I can nearly guarantee you'll appreciate having the 34. I'm a reasonably fit, relatively young professional bike mechanic and I still outfitted my all road/gravel bike with a 30/46 crank and 11-34 cassette. It's nice to not run out of lower gears on steep climbs, even if you could certainly do fine on a 34-28 or whatever.

HTupolev

In the scope being discussed in this thread, the decal is the primary differentiator between road and mountain.

For example, compare a Sora "road" RD-M3000-GS to an Alivio "mountain"/"trekking" RD-T4000. The parallelogram geometry is just about identical, they use the same location for the limit screws, the cable entry and cable clamp points are the same, they use similar bushinged pulleys, they both use a sprung b-pivot, they both have the jockey wheel offset so that it's a bit rearward of the a-pivot when the cage is pointed toward the ground, neither have any damping on the a-pivot, and they have fairly similar styling on their outer plates (although the current color schemes are different, with the T4000 only offered with a silver cage). They have similar cost, although the T4000 is slightly heavier, owing in large part to it's somewhat longer cage.
In other words, if Shimano slapped a "Sora" decal on the T4000 and listed it for sale as a Sora RD-R3000-SGS, it would pretty much be a road derailleur and everyone would be none the wiser.

WizardOfBoz

Well, I rode a Paramount with full Campy back in the day. Recently got back into cycling with a Series 6 Trek Domane (CF, Dura Ace). So I understand the "Only DA (or Super Record) is good enough" mentality.

That said, I recently resurrected an old Lemond Zurich (853, made in the USA) frame with a full Ultegra R8000 Groupset. It's pretty nifty, even if its not Shimano's top of the line. In fact, the cassette is probably stronger (I broke my DA cassette - they tried to go low weight with a single rivet where they should have used two rivets - I got the redesigned version). I don't think anyone would be gauche enough to suggest a 105 on there, but be open to other ways to go. Heck, XTR is high end - don't they have an XTR RD with a long cage that would work? Having written that, I suspect that the XTR RD is nearly the same price as the DA, IIRC.

Do what you'll enjoy most and can afford. But I humbly suggest that from a riding standpoint you probably wouldn't notice much difference.

Sometimes, you gotta have bling, though.

DaveSSS 

It would be wise to buy Chorus 12. It's actually cheaper than Chorus 11, other than groups on closeout sale, since 11 speed is out of production. It's no different to install. The new RDs all have a 25mm extension to clear a 34T sprocket. All 2020 Campy 12 groups, have the same 72.5mm length RD cages so they will all work with a 34T sprocket. I'm sure that some people won't like the looks.

I don't like the Campy chain joining pin, so I use SRAM eagle 12 speed quick links to join the chain.