Shane_D

Hi all I'm having a lot of trouble finding out any info on this bike. Trying to find out the make and year. I was told when I bought it it was meant to be from 1940 something. After cleaning it up I have come across a few things. One is on the bottom bracket it has a number 40A stamped in the middle. On the left side stamped vertically it has the number 6163. The back hub is a Eddie coaster. Has a bit of tarnish on it so hard to read anything else but does say made in England. Front hub says brompton and made in England. On the crank lock nut says Walton and brown and made in England. After hours of searching still can't seem to get a definite answer. Any help would be amazing, thanks!

bici_mania

Welcome, glad you're here.

Velognome is the first person who comes to mind for this sort of bike.

You may try posting in the C&V What's It Worth subforum even if you are not looking to sell it. I am a dwarf among giants but there many very knowledge folks here.

I am guessing something English, 1960's or earlier.

Close ups of the headbadge if there is one, the bottom bracket and drop outs will be a tremendous help in identifying this bike.

It looks like it has straight lugs, is that correct? Do you know the size of the seat post? Is there any kind of symbols or stamped text on the dynamo generator or head lamp?

Shane_D

Wow that's very informative! Most help I have had so far. You will have to mind my ignorance on something's as I'm new to fixing up bikes. When u say "straight lugs" what do u mean? I'll get some more pics up tonight to help more. There is. I head badge on it at all, no brandings what so ever apart from what I mentioned. The light is miller and co. Not sure on size of seat post, can find out tonight. It's only short though. I don't know if the handle bars are meant for this bike or added after. I know the brake was added later, which I have now removed.

Shane_D

Here are a few more pics. Seat post looks like it's about 6/7 inches.

capella lugs

Just a suggestion - if you take the bike outside where there's more light, the photos should come up much clearer and sharper - and able to see the critical details which help identification , more easily . Cheers

Shane_D

I've inspected it in every type of light. All the details I have mentioned are all that can be seen or readable. Cheers

Glennfordx4

I think capella lugs meant the pictures you have taken ( except for the last 2 ) aren't very helpful because there is no detail as they are dark and fuzzy. If you have the bike in a better lighted setting they would be clearer for us to see the details and help with ID'ing the bike.

Welcome to the forum, it is a interesting looking bike that I am sure we can help with.

Glenn

Shane_D

I'll take a few more tomorrow in some better light. Got the bike in pieces right now though as been cleaning it up

bici_mania

'Straight' lug is my term, for lack of a better term. It is what we see here:



6163 might be a serial number but it could be a reference to the type of steel used to make the bike and I think this is more likely the case. 40A seems more likely to be the serial number but at this point I am just guessing.

By comparison to the common/typical lug which is has one or more points or other shape.



Your crankset may help solve the mystery if you check to see if it matches one of these.

https://hilarystone.com/CCcranksets.html



I don't have a link for this image but it is a Stronglight crankset




Also you may find this interesting, it is a 1930's bicycle with the same design seatpost as you have:

https://blog.brooksengland.com/wps/ta...vintage-bikes/
https://blog.brooksengland.com/wps/wp...6/L1050925.jpg

Bianchigirll 

The BB shell looks like, as well as the rest of the bike, A Raleigh of some type. Remember that movie reel where they showed the shell being pressed from a small tube? The attachement of the seat stays bot top and bottom look Raleighish to me as well.

Shane_D

Wow blown away with the amount of help I'm getting here! Thanks! Yes was told it looked like a raleigh, also told might be a rudge. I looked into both of those. Did find some that looked similar but also a bunch that didn't either. Serial numbers for raleigh don't seem to match anything I have on mine. Just looked up elswick hopper bikes and they look similar too. Thoughts? Here a few more pics taken in better light.

choteau

The bottom bracket looks like it has an oiler port, missing the lid. The chainstay ends, the seatstay ends, the BB, the lugs, and the fork crown look like the ones on my old Phillips. The crank has me puzzled tho, looks neo modern. Tim ps my Phillips came with a Sturmey K hub axle nut and an undated AW hub shell, so guessing the vintage is fun!

Shane_D

Yeah looked into Phillips too. As with raleigh would find ones that looked similar but then would be something slightly different. I was thinking it maybe is meant to have Phillips handle bars and these were put on at a later date. Couldn't find any records of Phillips serial numbers to see if there was anything close to mine.

Shane_D

Was just thinking is there any chance this bike may be older than 1940/50s that I was told? The headset looks very different to any I have seen in the 40/50s age and the serial number sea very low compared to bikes made later.

rhm

The lugs, bottom bracket shell, etc. are all English made, probably Walton and Brown, which was a major supplier of such items in the 30's. The removable seat stays are typical of both track bikes and roadsters of that period. The bike is certainly from the 30's or so. In many ways the frame resembles an Alvin track bike I had until recently, made by Alvin Drysdale of NYC; same lugs, same BB shell, etc. Serial number location was different, though, so it's probably not a Drysdale.

32 spokes in the front wheel, 40 in the rear, this is typical of an English bike. Is that also typical of Australian bikes?

Is there a number stamped anywhere on the fork? I'd expect to find the serial number there somewhere, either the back of the crown or the steerer (and it should match the one on the BB).

I'm guessing your bike was made in Australia from English parts.

bici_mania

I did a Google Image search for "1930's Australian track bikes" and found this:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...k-Bike-Perhaps

Same lugs; head tube, headset, fork crown, seat stays, seat post and if not the same, very similar crankset, stem and bars. Underneath the orange paint was discovered the same black paint.

I vote for Alvin Drysdale track bike.

rhm

^^Well, like I said, I considered that briefly. That's why I ask about the serial number on the back of the fork crown. But the serial number on the BB is in the wrong location, wrong format, wrong font. It's at a quality level (=price point) similar to the Alvin, but it's not an Alvin; the seat stays and rear dropouts are different. The fork crown is different. There's no reason for a builder to offer two distinctly different frames at the same price point. Bottom line: I don't think it's a Drysdale.

And it's in Australia. There's really no reason a Drysdale bike would have been exported to Australia.

Shane_D

It does look remarkably like that bike. Closes one of seen as yet. Almost everything is identical. Only thing is mine came with mud guards which to my knowledge were original to the
Bike.

I'm am not sure about old australian bikes. I have only recently started collecting and fixing up old bikes so all this is new to me and learning as I go. Yes on the crank set it says Walton and brown and made in England. I inspected the forks and could not see any serial
Number on there. Did see a couple of holes on them though which I took a photo of. 2 of them are on the forks just below half way. Not sure what they are for. Pics ain't the best as I just took them a min a go and it's dark here. Also have seen traces of blue paint underneath the black. Is this a typical primer/undercoat or could of originally been blue?

choteau

The black paint appears to be pretty sloppy, so YES it was probably blue originally and been painted over! I've been looking for years on a Phillips serial # data base but... no luck.

Shane_D

Found this on a chat about a alvan drysdale bike. I know they are talking about the saddle but the serial number on my bottom bracket is exactly the same as this..2 digits and a letter. Could this be related?
On the GS RD. If there is a cable adjustment nut, 1953-1959. No adjustment nut, 1960-1963. Open C on the back, 1953-1957. Closed C, 1958-1963.

The lock nuts on the GS hubs will have a date stamp.

+1

There may also be a date stamp on the saddle. It would be on the cantle plate, so underneath the back, probably on the right side. Two digits plus a letter. The digits refer to the year, and the earliest I have seen was 59. I don't know what the letters mean, and I've only ever seen A, B, and C.

That style saddle was introduced in the mid fifties.

clubman 

Looks like a 30's/40's club racer. Flip those bars around and voila. Those look like Williams cranks so have a good look on the back of the arms and the rings and see if there's a code to fit this chart for a date...https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...amsdating.html

It's not likely a track bike with mudguards and not as refined either. Reminds me of a Golden Arrow.

I don't see any mention of wheel size...26 X ?

Shane_D

Sorry 28inch wheels. Tyres say Dunlop Australia but are most probably a replacement pair. I'll have a look at the crank again when I get home but all I could see on there last time was Walton and Brown and made in England on the lock ring.

ericbaker

The dropouts are not found on any drysdale bike Ive seen, as well the original mudguards on the Alvin are very different from yours.



The lugs look the same because they are common basic uncut builders lugs, like RHM said, probably Walton &Brown, but does not indicate they are from the same maker. Same goes for the "lucky 7" style seatpost and bolted seat stays.

The light setup appears very British and in the 1930-40s style
To my eye, its no later than 40's and quite probably 30s

Shane_D

Cool. Can prob safely say from comments on here it's around the 30/40s bracket. It's just finding out who bloody made the thing lol.

Shane_D

Just saw a healing bike that looks exactly like mine! Looked into it a bit more and I'm thinking I might have hit on it. Though I do have all English parts on mine. Would this be something that healing might of done..ie imported in English parts?