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Old 01-25-19, 06:34 PM
  #2326  
carleton
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You ever hear stories about roadies who retire for years then train for a month and can win competitive crits? The saying is that it's because he/she "has thousands of miles in their legs".

Here's the proof that the phenomona is real.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...-mmd011719.php

More details: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...018.01887/full

The old adage "use it or lose it" tells us: if you stop using your muscles, they'll shrink. Until recently, scientists thought this meant that nuclei - the cell control centers that build and maintain muscle fibers - are also lost to sloth.

But according to a review published in Frontiers in Physiology, modern lab techniques now allow us to see that nuclei gained during training persist even when muscle cells shrink due to disuse or start to break down. These residual 'myonuclei' allow more and faster growth when muscles are retrained - suggesting that we can "bank" muscle growth potential in our teens to prevent frailty in old age. It also suggests that athletes who cheat and grow their muscles with steroids may go undetected.
That last part is interesting, too. Basically, the benefits of steroid use don't go away after atrophy. The muscles continue to be conditioned and can easily return to that form without the use of steroids in the future.
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Old 01-25-19, 06:42 PM
  #2327  
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Originally Posted by 700wheel View Post
In the USA see Post #2322 above.

Elsewhere in the World see https://www.uci.org/docs/default-sou...rsn=da0c2a70_8
Thank you 700wheel! Not sure why my youtube search did not find that
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Old 01-25-19, 06:44 PM
  #2328  
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The way I understood it was that when we train, over months/years the body will create new blood vessels as needed to support the increased workloads. These don't go away when an athlete lowers the workload during retirement from training. They are still there. So, when the athlete takes up sport again...any sport...they just recruit the pathways already in place.

There are countless stories in various sports like this. I'm vaguely reminded of a female road racer or TT specialist that retired to start a family. When the children got to a certain age she started riding again and was making the podium at world class events within months. I wish I could recall her name. She's either American or Canadian.
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Old 01-25-19, 08:51 PM
  #2329  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
The way I understood it was that when we train, over months/years the body will create new blood vessels as needed to support the increased workloads. These don't go away when an athlete lowers the workload during retirement from training. They are still there. So, when the athlete takes up sport again...any sport...they just recruit the pathways already in place.

There are countless stories in various sports like this. I'm vaguely reminded of a female road racer or TT specialist that retired to start a family. When the children got to a certain age she started riding again and was making the podium at world class events within months. I wish I could recall her name. She's either American or Canadian.
Sue Palmer-Komar. Had a baby girl, Trinity in late 2000/early 2001. An occasional riding partner of mine (when she was in town). She was back on her regular bike within 3 months of giving birth, and competing at the next road/TT world championships.

​https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sue_Palmer-Komar​​​​​​
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Old 01-26-19, 04:42 AM
  #2330  
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I thought you Carleton was referring to Kristen Armstrong.
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Old 01-26-19, 10:12 AM
  #2331  
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Old 01-26-19, 10:27 AM
  #2332  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
I thought you Carleton was referring to Kristen Armstrong.
​​​​​​He might have been. There have been a few.
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Old 01-26-19, 11:12 PM
  #2333  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
I thought you Carleton was referring to Kristen Armstrong.
YES! Thanks!

Her story is a good one as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristin_Armstrong

Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
​​​​​​He might have been. There have been a few.
Although Palmer-Komar​​​​​​'s story is similar, I recall hearing about the woman as I watched her race on TV a couple of years ago long after Palmer-Komar​​​​​​ had retired.
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Old 01-26-19, 11:32 PM
  #2334  
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Originally Posted by Poppit View Post
This is awesome.

Here are the images that Dolan tweeted:









Not sure where they got 28.0cm drops from. Prototypes? Team GB bars?

Take Away:
At every speed and on every rider type, narrow wins and more-narrow wins bigger.

This is why I'm a fan of the 33cm Alpinas. They work! For me, my Kilo times in 33cm Alpinas matched or beat my Kilo times in aerobars.
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Old 01-26-19, 11:39 PM
  #2335  
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I imagine that Dolan included the 28cm bars in the test to show that their commercially-available 33cm bars (159.99 / $200USD) are very close to the *Team GB bars that are (nearly) impossible to get.


*I'm assuming that the 28cm bars are Team GB bars. I can't think of any other bars that narrow.
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Old 01-27-19, 09:43 AM
  #2336  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
​​​​​​He might have been. There have been a few.
Beryl Burton of the UK was road and track star who had daughter (that became world champ track medalist) in the middle of her career.
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Old 01-27-19, 01:42 PM
  #2337  
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Originally Posted by 700wheel View Post
Beryl Burton of the UK was road and track star who had daughter (that became world champ track medalist) in the middle of her career.
Her's is a an interesting story. Very impressive rider.
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Old 01-27-19, 06:49 PM
  #2338  
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Originally Posted by tobukog View Post

I wondered how long it would be until we'd start seeing bars like this, the technology has been around since before Rio to actually it but nobody bothered to.

I'm a fan
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Old 01-27-19, 08:31 PM
  #2339  
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Originally Posted by pierrej View Post
I wondered how long it would be until we'd start seeing bars like this, the technology has been around since before Rio to actually it but nobody bothered to.

I'm a fan
Those custom finger grip jawns are wild.
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Old 01-27-19, 10:55 PM
  #2340  
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Originally Posted by benjovland View Post
Those custom finger grip jawns are wild.
They make a lot of sense nowadays, with the high hands position and the current 10cm limit most of the fast teams are only holding the extensions with their pinky and ring fingers. Molding to these as well as the arm gives a bit more stability in the position
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Old 01-28-19, 10:42 AM
  #2341  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
You ever hear stories about roadies who retire for years then train for a month and can win competitive crits? The saying is that it's because he/she "has thousands of miles in their legs".

Here's the proof that the phenomona is real.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...-mmd011719.php

More details: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...018.01887/full



That last part is interesting, too. Basically, the benefits of steroid use don't go away after atrophy. The muscles continue to be conditioned and can easily return to that form without the use of steroids in the future.
It's always interesting when science finds an explanation for things that people always kind of "knew" or at least "felt" was true.

I certainly feel like it comes back to me a lot faster than when I first started riding, and I was never that fast to begin with.
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Old 01-28-19, 11:09 AM
  #2342  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
This is awesome.

Here are the images that Dolan tweeted:









Not sure where they got 28.0cm drops from. Prototypes? Team GB bars?

Take Away:
At every speed and on every rider type, narrow wins and more-narrow wins bigger.

This is why I'm a fan of the 33cm Alpinas. They work! For me, my Kilo times in 33cm Alpinas matched or beat my Kilo times in aerobars.
This is one of those situations where they visualized data badly, and by truncating the y-axis, do more to confuse than to clarify. That said, going from 38 to 33 has changes that range from 2.5% drag reduction to 4%. I could think of some better ways to show this... but the story is, that's a ton! And, if we assume that these are representative... more gains to be had with larger people (or rather, smaller people need to go narrower to see proportional gains).

Probably going to stick with my 36cm bars for now, but having used them for a year or two, I really wouldn't be opposed to trying 33-34cm bars.
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Old 01-28-19, 11:24 AM
  #2343  
carleton
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
This is one of those situations where they visualized data badly, and by truncating the y-axis, do more to confuse than to clarify. That said, going from 38 to 33 has changes that range from 2.5% drag reduction to 4%. I could think of some better ways to show this... but the story is, that's a ton! And, if we assume that these are representative... more gains to be had with larger people (or rather, smaller people need to go narrower to see proportional gains).

Probably going to stick with my 36cm bars for now, but having used them for a year or two, I really wouldn't be opposed to trying 33-34cm bars.

I totally agree about the visualizations. One should always include zero in comparisons like this. I completely overlooked that and looked at the numbers.
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Old 01-31-19, 04:31 AM
  #2344  
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Old 01-31-19, 04:58 PM
  #2345  
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Here's something interesting: all the German's run 3/32. And 9 or 10 speed shimano road chains.....


Last edited by tobukog; 01-31-19 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 01-31-19, 07:51 PM
  #2346  
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Originally Posted by tobukog View Post
Here's something interesting: all the German's run 3/32. And 9 or 10 speed shimano road chains.....
They're more efficient, it's not by much but they are
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Old 01-31-19, 07:57 PM
  #2347  
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Originally Posted by pierrej View Post
They're more efficient, it's not by much but they are
I was surprised that even their sprinters had gone narrow. They were using Shimano or Kappstein rings.
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Old 01-31-19, 09:04 PM
  #2348  
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Efficiency because of less surface contact area? Or because 9/10 speed chains have better implemented tech to make the chains more efficient? I could see that Shimano and other chain producers focusing more on premium 10 speed chains compared to their 1/8tj offerings.
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Old 02-01-19, 09:12 AM
  #2349  
carleton
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
Efficiency because of less surface contact area? Or because 9/10 speed chains have better implemented tech to make the chains more efficient? I could see that Shimano and other chain producers focusing more on premium 10 speed chains compared to their 1/8tj offerings.
And they are probably cheaper and more accessible than the boutique 1/8" chains with coatings that are being offered now.

It's "free speed", I guess.
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Old 02-01-19, 11:20 AM
  #2350  
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11 speed DA chain is the efficiency weenies dream. It's unfortunate that not nearly as much effort goes into 1/8 chains (realistically there doesn't need to be other than from a pure efficiency standpoint, of course as things get narrower on road chains they have to keep working on them)

I'm surprised to see sprinters on them though, some of the stronger guys may be able to snap them.
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