wheelhot

Hi,

So after riding for a few days (10-20km) and one of them being a 105km ride, I notice my hamstrings are aching. I'm not sure if it's overriding/overtraining or cause of the seat height adjustment I did the week before.

The reason why I did a seat height adjustment was cause I think my saddle height is too high. The bike was fitted but I think the person doing it is lazy to further adjust the bike as I noticed that he doesn't do some checks when certain part of the bike was adjusted and etc. (let say I watch too many bike fitting videos )

My inseam measurement is 86.6cm, so using the LeMond method, my ideal BB to Saddle should be 76.5cm.

My original bike setup is:
BB to saddle: 78.5cm
Tip of saddle nose to stem plate: 54.4cm

So when I compared the values, it does seem that the saddle height is off by 2cm.

I then did the following adjustment (second setup):
BB to saddle: 76.5cm
Tip of saddle nose to stem plate: 53.7cm (I didn't adjust the saddle fore-aft)

With this setup, the cockpit felt cramped and I feel totally underpowered when riding. As I was using MTB pedals (SPD) and shoes on my road bike, I guess I'll have to do add some extra height to compensate as I guess LeMond method is based on road cleats and shoes.

After reading around, I found out an additional 5mm tend to do the trick for most SPD Road users, I also adjusted the saddle fore-aft to match the original setting and this is my current setup:

BB to saddle: 77cm
Tip of saddle nose to stem plate: 54.4cm

With this setup, immediately I felt good and similar power as my original setup. The only issue now is as mentioned, the hamstring starts to ache, but this happens after a few days of riding with 1-2 days of rest in between some days.

So any suggestions on how I should proceed next? Should I adjust my saddle fore-aft or do I need to increase my saddle height again? And by how much increment would you all suggest.

I do not have a turbo trainer which made remote bike fitting service not an option and my only option seems to go out riding and adjust based on what I feel.

Carbonfiberboy 

IME measuring with tape and formulas is a waste of time. The quick and correct way to do it is to use the heel-on-pedal method. Measure with your leg. With your heel on the pedal and your knee completely locked out, your heel should barely touch the pedal or perhaps have up to a 4mm gap between heel and pedal. An important caveat is not to tilt your pelvis, reaching down for the pedal. A good method is to go out on a level road with your allen wrench in your pocket. Get moving, then unclip one foot and pedal very slowly while coasting with the heel of the unclipped foot on the pedal. That knee should completely lock out while barely or not quite touching the pedal. Repeat with the other foot.

This is a good approximation, but might still be a few mm off of what is perfect for you. Make final very small adjustments while feeling for that perfect knee bend which gives you good pulling-back power at the bottom of the pedal stroke.

Your hamstrings may ache because they're not used to the proper saddle height. Pulling back at the bottom uses some ham strength.

Fore-and-aft saddle adjustment is by feel. You want your hands to feel light on the bars and in fact be able to remove them briefly from the bars without sliding forward on the saddle. The further back the saddle, the less weight on the hands. So first measure your current saddle height. I measure from the center of the pedal axle right along the seat tube to the saddle top. Adjust the saddle fore-and-aft until it feels right. Then reset saddle height.

12strings

I have no comments on your specific measurements...

However, I did have the same experience early last fall, after a few months of several indicators that my saddle might have been a bit too high. I lowered it a bit, and immediately felt my hamstrings working more. However, it was not extreme and decided to stick with it for a while. After several rides, my hamstrings did not feel so overworked (got stronger, I guess)...And, as I had hoped, I now felt like my quads were fresher when I needed to get out of the saddle for a surge or a steep climb. So it sort of works out that sitting and standing gives my different muscles more of a refresh than it used to, when even sitting efforts were very quad-heavy

I kept it there for the fall/winter, including a couple cyclocross races, and feel like it works for me, to have more of a kick in reserve when standing.

There is definitely an adjustment period, though, and I can't tell you whether yours is now "too-low" or not, or what the correct balance is...but I would say try it for a bit, allowing adequate recovery between hard efforts and see if you adjust to it or not.

79pmooney

My first thought is to ask if you do hamstring stretches. This sounds like tight hamstrings and that you have just dialed in your bike until it matters. Most cyclists pay little attention to hamstrings until something comes up. (Guilty here and I have paid with 40 years of knee issues.)

Second thought. IMO your seat height adjustments are huge! I consider 1/8" (3.3mm) big. My approach to seat height is to raise or lower it an 1/8" or less and ride that for several weeks before attempting the next 1/8".

I use Carbonfiberboy's approach with a tweak. I have always liked lowish seats so I do his test barefoot, bike in a hallway so i can sit on it vertical. With the crfank in line with the seatpost, I adjust my seat until I hit the magic point there I can either straighten my leg completely, knee locked out, or bend it a touch and my foot doesn't lift off nor do my hips rock. This isn't a means to find your perfect seat height. You probably don't want you seat that low. But iti s a great way to set seats on any bike quickly once you know where it should be. Say you find a seat 3/8" higher than barefoot gives you. Find the slippers (or road cycling shoes) that meet that heel criteria.

All the pedal, cleat and shoe options do screw up the simplicity of this test. Back when road cycling shoes and rattrap type pedals, things were easy. Now, if you switch shoe/cleat/pedal systems, that has to be looked at.

Ben

Carbonfiberboy 

My winter boots need the saddle ~6mm higher than my usual bike shoes. Once I know my saddle height in mm, I can transfer it to any bike no matter the crank length.

wheelhot

Thanks for the tips guys, I went with @Carbonfiberboymethod and turns out I had to raise my saddle quite considerably, +1cm. And now it feels much better (my hamstring doesn't feel pain at all even after a hard 40km and 90km relaxing ride) and is actually just .5cm less than my original saddle height which I felt was a little high.

I wonder why no one creates a new updated formula or technique on getting saddle height as most of the "formulas" are old or didn't take account of crank arm length or shoe height (inc. pedals and cleats).

Fore-aft seems about right but quick question on that, so do we keep the same fore-aft measurements regardless the saddle height or if the saddle height changes, then the fore-aft measurement changes as well?

Also, a little off topic, but even on 40km hard ride, I tend to get chafing/cuts near my inner thigh/butt-cheek area, I'm not sure if it's cause I'm not using bib shorts (using shorts with chamois at the moment) or is it the saddle shape. Opinions?

I originally thought adjusting saddle height will solve this issue, but apparently not

Carbonfiberboy 

Saddle shape. Doesn't neck down quickly enough?

wheelhot

So you think it's down to saddle shape? And what you mean by doesn't neck down quickly enough?

Carbonfiberboy 

Saddle vary from pear-shaped to T-shaped. You're looking for a saddle which doesn't have any saddle where you have sores. Of course the further forward you sit on a saddle, the less that rubbing is going to be, but you don't really want to be doing that all the time, either. First thing is to go to a LBS and get your sitbone width measured and a nominal saddle width recommended. Then look at saddles which have that advertised width, and look for one that doesn't look like it'll rub you there.

I have the same problem, always have. I'm currently riding a Selle Italia MAN saddle, and interestingly enough, every time I go on a group ride I see more and more of them on bikes. You might look at one of those.

First thing I do with a candidate saddle is to put it on a stair or chair and sit on it with just undershorts or gym shorts on.

PaddleFoot

CFB get thrown out of a lot of LBS's because of this method.

Good luck to OP, you are learning (from the best) about the most important thing on the bike.