A Cinelli ?? It cant be, right?
#26
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Looks likely to be a Cinelli, final check would be 26.2 seatpost size. If it is a Cinelli it has been repainted and bottle bosses added on down tube and cable guides under the bottom bracket, there may be other braze ons I haven't noticed. It has an earlier Cinelli 1a nutted stem, and mixed of parts like Shimano brakes, later super record shift levers etc. The headset may be original. Although Cinelli serial numbers are all over the place the one on this bike has the ring of being correct. If you can see the head badge clearly there is a site somewhere which shows the different periods of badge.
#27
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#28
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#29
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If it's a Cinelli, and if that is the original fork, it is a Model B. I would have cheerfully taken a Model B in my size if I had found one before I lucked into my two SCs. A great score if it pans out.
Close-up photos of the seat lug would be helpful (Windsor Pros were very similar, but not identical). Checking the serial number on the bottom of the BB shell might also help - not so much to establish age (a fool's errand with Cinelli numbers before 1980 or so) but to see if the format is correct. The clincher for me would be the seat post diameter. 26.2mm = Cinelli. Anything else = not Cinelli. 27.2mm = Windsor.
The Cinelli SC, Cinelli Model B and the Windsor Profesional are all good bikes, but a Windsor Pro is not a Cinelli. If you are looking for a good frame and the price is right, any of the three will do just fine. But if you are jonesing for a Cinelli, a Windsor Pro just won't do.
Close-up photos of the seat lug would be helpful (Windsor Pros were very similar, but not identical). Checking the serial number on the bottom of the BB shell might also help - not so much to establish age (a fool's errand with Cinelli numbers before 1980 or so) but to see if the format is correct. The clincher for me would be the seat post diameter. 26.2mm = Cinelli. Anything else = not Cinelli. 27.2mm = Windsor.
The Cinelli SC, Cinelli Model B and the Windsor Profesional are all good bikes, but a Windsor Pro is not a Cinelli. If you are looking for a good frame and the price is right, any of the three will do just fine. But if you are jonesing for a Cinelli, a Windsor Pro just won't do.
find better badge fasteners, restoring the badge is WORK. The @bikingshearer question is, what to do with the Chrome?
#30
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You'd get rid of the brazed-on BB cable guides in favor of, what? A clamp-on guide? Weird. Also, anyone with a modicum of artistic talent could easily restore the badge. It's as simple as painting within the lines.
The shift bosses look fine to me. Any perceived "misalignment" is probably due to the camera angle/lens distortion.
The shift bosses look fine to me. Any perceived "misalignment" is probably due to the camera angle/lens distortion.
#31
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Looks very much like my '70 Cinelli B, including the head badge without screws. Only 11 units apart on the serial number. That's saying a lot...
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Without knowledge of asking price , it is unknown. I would get it if it were reasonably priced and the right size. You can choose to ride it as is until you decide what to do with it. I did a few minor changes to my Colnago but pretty much left it the way it came for about a year. Then I made it my own!
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#35
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You'd get rid of the brazed-on BB cable guides in favor of, what? A clamp-on guide? Weird. Also, anyone with a modicum of artistic talent could easily restore the badge. It's as simple as painting within the lines.
The shift bosses look fine to me. Any perceived "misalignment" is probably due to the camera angle/lens distortion.
The shift bosses look fine to me. Any perceived "misalignment" is probably due to the camera angle/lens distortion.
Sweeping critique of the talent and materials required to restore the head badge. I do not think you have attempted to do one. If you have, please share your amazing results.
Don’t neglect the silver plating base.
Last edited by repechage; 10-16-23 at 09:59 AM.
#36
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I have not done a Cinelli headbadge. But as an artist, I can easily see that it would not be a problem. I have painted similar plates. If you're not an artist, then I can understand why you would see it as a challenge.
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If he buys the bike perhaps you would volunteer to set it right and prove how easy it is. Be sure to source the silver plating first.
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A worn original as seen on velobase
#39
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26.8, the correct seat pillar size for the (early) Acer-Mex Windsor and Carabela Profesionals is 26.8.
Because no shim/insert-reinforcement in the top of the seat tube. Using a longer seat post stiffens the seat stay/seat tube/top tube juncture similarly.
The ride quality of early Acer Mex Pros is indistinguishable from cotemporaneous Cinelli Mod Bs, (or SCs for that matter). no surprise as they were built by a guy who built them for 25 years. After they became popular, mid-70s or so, the quality declined and discrepancies presented.
Cinellis changed too, so a mid-80s example sure does not ride the same as one from the mid-60s.
Because no shim/insert-reinforcement in the top of the seat tube. Using a longer seat post stiffens the seat stay/seat tube/top tube juncture similarly.
The ride quality of early Acer Mex Pros is indistinguishable from cotemporaneous Cinelli Mod Bs, (or SCs for that matter). no surprise as they were built by a guy who built them for 25 years. After they became popular, mid-70s or so, the quality declined and discrepancies presented.
Cinellis changed too, so a mid-80s example sure does not ride the same as one from the mid-60s.
I would very much expect that a 1960s Cinelli and a 1980s Cinelli to ride differently. As for whether the shorter, more upright 1980s frames ride better than the longer, more laid-back1960s frames - that is very much a matter of personal taste.
First, one has to define what "better" means. Is it better if it is stiffer? If it is more agile? More all-day comfortable? More straight-line stable? Pretty much all of these are YMMV criteria.
As for me, I have two mid-1960s Cinellis, both 64cm ctc, both heavy, both with 73/72.5 angles, and both with looong wheelbases. They both ride great. The one that I have blasphemously desecrated with a Campy 10sp triple drivetrain is the best riding bike I have ever been on. What makes me like it better to me than the other, Eroica/Cino complaint one is solely a matter components. Both bikes are stable, plenty stiff, plenty responsive although no one's first choice for a criterium, plenty comfy on a long ride, and have a certain slight extra, alive-feeling springiness that I can't quantify or adequately describe but that I love.
Would you prefer the ride of the 1960s Cinellis over that of the 1980s Cinellis? I don't know, but based solely on your comment, I kind of doubt it. I also largely don't care other than hoping that the bikes you ride - Cinelli or other - put big smiles on your face. As for me, if you see me on the road, I'll be the big guy on the big mid-1960s Cinelli with a big goofy grin on my face. Whatever you are riding, I wish you the same goofy grin.
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#40
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No problem. But I ain't paying to have it plated. The painting, however, would be a piece of cake.
#41
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Artistic License Does Not Allow Ignorant Arrogance
(As an "Artist" you must be aware that Enamel Paints are only an approximation of melted glass?)
Plating is rather plain in comparison.
Last edited by machinist42; 10-16-23 at 12:14 PM.
#42
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Also typical for that era would be a semi-sloping external-socketed fork crown (sort of like the Cinelli Model B but not exactly) but I've seen a few with a "Cinelli SC-like" full-sloping internal socket forkcrown (not sure if those examples were something after-market like a Tange replacement or made by Acer-Mex)
Plus the serial number on Windsor/Carabela Pros would typically be stamped on the side of the seat lug, usually the LH side, not on the BB shell.
All details subject to change and "exceptions prove the rules"
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I would think it would be worth it if it were a keeper . I think if you were to want it correct , the end of the restoration would be a high number . There was one that popped up here in my size and an early bike like this one. The seller wanted too much for it considering the amount of work it would take to bring back. It seemed very reasonable at first , but once I added up what I would have to do to the bike , it was a no go. The seller would not hear of any negotiating , someone had told him an end of the rainbow value and was he sticking to it! Right now even the high end bikes have taken a hit , but it IS a Cinelli.....
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It is!
Model B that is.
Original headset, nice! But without original spacer. I know a guy if you are interested.
Those are not original headbadge screws.
And as others noted, braze on shift bosses and cable guides are not original.
Model B that is.
Original headset, nice! But without original spacer. I know a guy if you are interested.
Those are not original headbadge screws.
And as others noted, braze on shift bosses and cable guides are not original.
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Definitely a fake. WHERE'S IT LOCATED?!?!?
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