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Should I buy the Wahoo Roam or the Garmin Edge 830?

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Should I buy the Wahoo Roam or the Garmin Edge 830?

Old 09-10-19, 11:01 AM
  #26  
ksryder
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Very provocative post and I'm going to ask.

Why three if they are not garbage?

Not trying to challenge or argue.

Inquiring minds want to know....


-Tim-
Can't speak for Reynolds but I replaced a Bolt after sending it through the wash when I forget it was in my jersey pocket.

It actually still worked, but the elevation numbers got all wonky. Wahoo gave me a code for a 40% crash replacement discount.

So there are replacement scenarios that don't involve a faulty unit. I too, am curious about why he needed to replace it 3x, but he said don't ask so I guess we'll never know
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Old 09-10-19, 11:33 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Very provocative post and I'm going to ask.

Why three if they are not garbage?

Not trying to challenge or argue.

Inquiring minds want to know....


-Tim-
The first got lost when the Chinese mount I bought for a second bike came undone. Spent an hour looking for it, and couldn't find (on Tahoe Rim Trail)

The second one survived 10 minutes in the washing machine a few times, but couldn't survive my wifes extra soak, double spin, super duper wash cycle she likes to use on bike clothes.

I searched and read DC Rainmaker until my eyes turned blue, and I still went back to the Wahoo Elmnt Bolt about a month ago.
Originally Posted by ksryder
Can't speak for Reynolds but I replaced a Bolt after sending it through the wash when I forget it was in my jersey pocket.

It actually still worked, but the elevation numbers got all wonky. Wahoo gave me a code for a 40% crash replacement discount.
Wow. I had no idea. thanks for the tip, I will email them and ask for a discount code for the next time I screw up!

Last edited by Reynolds 531; 09-10-19 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 09-10-19, 01:11 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
Can't speak for Reynolds but I replaced a Bolt after sending it through the wash when I forget it was in my jersey pocket.
Is it OK to laugh at this?

I once accidentally threw away a check for $1000 so I've really no right to laugh, but still...

Man, must have sucked at the moment you realized.


-Tim-
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Old 09-10-19, 02:10 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Is it OK to laugh at this?

I once accidentally threw away a check for $1000 so I've really no right to laugh, but still...

Man, must have sucked at the moment you realized.


-Tim-
It is now. Wasn't really at the time.

It was in my pocket because I had driven to another town for a ride on a tandem with a blind friend.

Then we crashed, which was pretty much my fault, as the person who could see, but in fairness it was a gravel road and sometimes those ruts are pretty well camouflaged to look like the rest of the road and you don't see them until you're right on top of them, and you can't just bunny hop a tandem like you can a solo bike.

But still, it was my fault and I felt really bad because in addition to some pretty nasty road rash, my stoker separated his shoulder.

By the time we got hauled off the course, back in our vehicle, and made the hour-long drive to get back home, I'd forgotten about putting the computer in my pocket.

It's OK to laugh about now because everyone is in one piece and recovered so if the loss of a bike computer is the worst thing out of the deal then I'm OK with it.

I just emailed Wahoo and said "hey I'm a dumbass and here's what I did" and they said no problem and gave me a crash replacement discount code.

In conclusion, Wahoo's customer support continues to be top notch.
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Old 09-11-19, 11:45 AM
  #30  
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Yes I have two Wahoo RPM speed and cadence sensors paired to an 830. No issues.
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Old 09-11-19, 01:51 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by hagak View Post
Yes I have two Wahoo RPM speed and cadence sensors paired to an 830. No issues.

I know it does not guarantee success but it is proof of concept.

Thank you.
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Old 09-11-19, 04:01 PM
  #32  
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For what it's worth I use non-Garmin chest straps without issue.
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Old 09-12-19, 09:37 AM
  #33  
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On the other hand I use Garmin ANT+ sensors with my Wahoo without issue.

What are we talking about again? I got lost.
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Old 09-12-19, 11:46 AM
  #34  
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Bluetooth Low Energy and ant+ are data transmission protocols...Meaning that they are not proprietary. I'm no expert, but I think this means that, if you list a device as BTLE or as ant+ (and most HRMs and such are one, the other, or both), then it has to work with other devices which use the same protocol.

In other words, brands don't matter.
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Old 09-12-19, 12:26 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Bluetooth Low Energy and ant+ are data transmission protocols...Meaning that they are not proprietary. I'm no expert, but I think this means that, if you list a device as BTLE or as ant+ (and most HRMs and such are one, the other, or both), then it has to work with other devices which use the same protocol.

In other words, brands don't matter.
Kind of an academic discussion but ANT+ is actually proprietary.

Proprietary has to do with property. ANT+ is entirely owned by Dynastream Innovations which is owned by Garmin. The protocol is their property to do with as they please. This is the definition of proprietary.

ANT+ is licensed. Some licenses such as evaluation use, are free. The owners of ANT+ however, charge fees to developers to implement ANT+ in software for revenue generating purposes, charge licensing fees to chip makers who put ANT+ on their chips and charge fees to certify devices and software. I'm also not an expert and only know the basics of how this works.

BTLE is open source but the fact that one or the other is open source vs proprietary doesn't make one better than the other apart from cost.

Interoperablity of either is not guaranteed. I could pay the licensing fee for ANT+ or download a software development kit for BTLE, write cruddy code, stick it on a device and sell it to cyclists all over the world. That's the nature of all software today and why I asked about Garmin GPS and Wahoo sensor interoperablity. I'd like to think that the two biggest players would interoperate well but it isn't a given and knowing that at least one other person does it sets my mind at ease.


-Tim-
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Old 09-12-19, 01:40 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Kind of an academic discussion but ANT+ is actually proprietary.

Proprietary has to do with property. ANT+ is entirely owned by Dynastream Innovations which is owned by Garmin. The protocol is their property to do with as they please. This is the definition of proprietary.

ANT+ is licensed. Some licenses such as evaluation use, are free. The owners of ANT+ however, charge fees to developers to implement ANT+ in software for revenue generating purposes, charge licensing fees to chip makers who put ANT+ on their chips and charge fees to certify devices and software. I'm also not an expert and only know the basics of how this works.

BTLE is open source but the fact that one or the other is open source vs proprietary doesn't make one better than the other apart from cost.

Interoperablity of either is not guaranteed. I could pay the licensing fee for ANT+ or download a software development kit for BTLE, write cruddy code, stick it on a device and sell it to cyclists all over the world. That's the nature of all software today and why I asked about Garmin GPS and Wahoo sensor interoperablity. I'd like to think that the two biggest players would interoperate well but it isn't a given and knowing that at least one other person does it sets my mind at ease.


-Tim-
Tim, thanks for that info. If I am understanding it correctly, it is indeed (as you wrote) "an academic discussion" in that there is the theory (BTLE and Ant+ compatibility should be generic) and the practice (there may be incompatibilities in practice).

I had assumed it was a standard like Dolby Noise Reduction, which was proprietary but widely licensed. (And if you are too young to have used cassette decks, you may have never heard of Dolby!)
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Old 09-12-19, 02:40 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Tim, thanks for that info. If I am understanding it correctly, it is indeed (as you wrote) "an academic discussion" in that there is the theory (BTLE and Ant+ compatibility should be generic) and the practice (there may be incompatibilities in practice).

I had assumed it was a standard like Dolby Noise Reduction, which was proprietary but widely licensed. (And if you are too young to have used cassette decks, you may have never heard of Dolby!)

Both BTLE and ANT+ have standards but like everything else, people are free to misunderstand the standards, not follow them or cut corners. This is the value of certification. It ensures that your product actually meets the standards.

ANT+ Product Certification

Regarding interoperability:

The ANT+ Alliance is an open special interest group of companies who have adopted the ANT+ promise of interoperability. The Alliance ensures standardized communications through optimized brand value and partnerships with other top tier products. ANT, ANT+ and the ANT+ Alliance are all managed by the ANT Wireless division of Garmin Canada Inc.

Read More...
Bluetooth has similar programs but it is administered through the Bluetooth Special Interest Group which has something like 35,000 members.

Anyway, yes, academic for the purpose of this thread. I find the politics and economics of it interesting though. The fact that ANT+ is ultimately owned by Garmin explains why Polar only supported Bluetooth until recently.

Back on topic, some of the DC Rainmaker comments about the Wahoo leave me wondering if I shouldn't try the Garmin 830 first.


-Tim-
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Old 09-12-19, 02:48 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
.
Back on topic, some of the DC Rainmaker comments about the Wahoo leave me wondering if I shouldn't try the Garmin 830 first.
-Tim-
Iíve got ď paralysis by analysis.ď Iím in a holding pattern, as my old computer is still serviceable. When I do buy one, though, it will probably be the Garmin edge 830. Oh, wait, or maybe the Wahoo. Oh, geez.
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Old 09-12-19, 03:18 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Back on topic, some of the DC Rainmaker comments about the Wahoo leave me wondering if I shouldn't try the Garmin 830 first.
You know, with all due respect to DCR, his negative review of the ROAM was basically "it doesn't do as much as I think it should do" rather than "it fails at doing some things." I think DCR can be a kind of a "princess and the pea" type of user, it seems.

I think that critical aspect of Wahoo's appeal--out-of-the-box reliability--is still very much valid. It just works. I'm pretty simple and I don't need most of the new features that some of the new units offer. I just want it to record my ride and tell me how fast I'm going while doing it, more or less.

Yes, there were a few issues with the firmware updates back in May, but I think they've been blown way out of proportion. They seem to have been fixed pretty much immediately.

I admit that I am just a single user but I haven't had any problems with my Bolt since they fixed the firmware updates. Even the problems I had were fairly minimal -- it screwed up how I had some pages organized, and it changed all my units to metric. I didn't actually lose any data.

So yeah, the Wahoo doesn't have as many features, but it just plain works.

Caveat: I've never used a Garmin so I can't compare it directly. They're probably great. But I've had no complaints with Wahoo.
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Old 09-12-19, 04:38 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Iíve got ď paralysis by analysis.ď Iím in a holding pattern, as my old computer is still serviceable. When I do buy one, though, it will probably be the Garmin edge 830. Oh, wait, or maybe the Wahoo. Oh, geez.
Ha ha, exactly the same here.

Mine is also serviceable and I'm waffling on brand more than a politician.

Really waiting for an REI sale or some other reason to spend the money.
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Old 09-12-19, 04:41 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
You know, with all due respect to DCR, his negative review of the ROAM was basically "it doesn't do as much as I think it should do" rather than "it fails at doing some things." I think DCR can be a kind of a "princess and the pea" type of user, it seems.
Oh, I agree 110% with the princess and the pea analogy. Its easy to be picky when you own 37 computers.

The thing that concerns me the most is his comment that the Garmin has twice the battery life. I should go back and reread to make sure I'm not mistaken.


-Tim-
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Old 09-13-19, 05:49 AM
  #42  
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the way I read his Roam review was that it was good, but it wasn't as good as it should have been relative to the new Garmins. My guess is they will do an update to catch up.
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Old 09-13-19, 07:58 AM
  #43  
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So a lot of people have the Wahoo "Just Works" mentality over Garmin. Being someone who has used both now a good deal I do not see one or the other better in this respect. I have had failures with my Wahoo "Not working" just like I have with the Garmin. Actually to date I have had more "not working" events on the wahoo over the garmin but to be fair I have more time on the Wahoo. But I have only had 2 events in 6 months with Garmin (one was with an 820, the other the 830). I have NEVER lost a ride with either Wahoo or Garmin. My events have been a won't start or won't connect to a sensor issue. I have been burned by bad firmware on the Wahoo, not yet had that experience with the Garmin. Mind you the bad firmware was an early version of the Elemnt and the resolve was to do a force reset to get it working again but it prevented me from using it on a ride.

Even with that said I have been happy with both Garmin and Wahoo, but for my use case the Garmin is better.
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Old 09-13-19, 08:01 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Oh, I agree 110% with the princess and the pea analogy. Its easy to be picky when you own 37 computers.

The thing that concerns me the most is his comment that the Garmin has twice the battery life. I should go back and reread to make sure I'm not mistaken.


-Tim-
Yeah, I'll give him that. My Bolt will last about 11-12 hours. For 99.9% of the rides I do that's fine. On Dirty Kanza I just brought a spare power supply, but I do rides like that once, maybe twice, a year.
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