chipcom 

I'm not the guy who said "Bike lanes increase ridership, and higher concentrations of cyclists improve safety."

The "rest of us" seem to agree that bike lanes are not some magic bullet, and that the increased ridership they may enable doesn't necessarily increase safety. A wobbler on the road isn't automagically made safe by a painted line...adding more wobblers or paint doesn't make it any safer.

Andy_K 

I think this is actually a very important point. I love my suburban bike lanes. They let me travel safely alongside 45 mph traffic as we cruise past miles of the fenced side of cul-de-sac riddled neighborhoods. On the other hand, there are streets in downtown Portland where the bike lane essentially marks where you should ride if you want to be doored. There are also suburban streets with bike lanes dotted with strip mall driveways every 50 feet. I wouldn't ride in those bike lanes on a dare.

gerv 

Yes.

I agree there should be more in the mix than just striping the road and calling it good. Some form of education -- even if it some stark advertisements about the Door Zone -- is a requirement.

We need to bear in mind that, safe or not safe, lanes are the future... in many cases we can't fit all those bikes in car lanes without disrupting traffic.

We also should keep in mind that there are many different implementations of bike lanes. Some work. Some don't.

Those that don't work -- for example, where there's debris in the lane -- need some of us to start hollering to city hall. If we are shouting at the right people (instead of among ourselves on BF), we might make these lanes safer and more fun.

chipcom 

Honest question...is it the paint that makes you feel that you can travel safely in 45mph traffic...or the space? If the paint automagically disappeared tonite, would you still feel safe riding on it in the morning?

chipcom 

unless of course we give "take the lane" a whole new meaning by getting rid of all the cars!


Oh crap, excuse me, I thought I was in A&S or Car-free there for a moment.

jr59

How about I'll take what I can get!

Some bike lanes work, some not so much, but at least we are now being thouhgt of!

mikeybikes

I like bike lanes because it makes it easier to ride past a large group of cars waiting at a stop light.

SlimRider

Alright! So there needs to be three lanes then!

One lane is furthest to the right (just about 2 feet in width), it means, "car parking space to the right (watch out for opening doors)". It's really a buffer zone. In the middle is the bike lane (approx. 3 feet). To the far left, adjacent to auto traffic, is another buffer zone (keeping cars away from you, just about one foot). Cyclists should have the right of way with respect to the parking lanes as long as they're moving...

- Slim

PS.

Taxis should not be allowed to drive on streets where there are bicycle lanes! (unless of course they're Pedicabs)

SlimRider

+1 ditto ^

chipcom 

Maybe too easy if you are not aware that the paint isn't going to prevent a right hook. There's that experience and education thing again.

fietsbob

Interstate highway system got bipartisan support as a way to move Military troops
and vehicles around. to quell invasion.

Put a national defense compulsory spin on bike route improvements and it May Fly

but don't hold your breath.. the APC's can move quickly to quell domestic insurrections,
by supporters promoting thru demonstrations, for stuff like that.

pallen

Bike lanes are not a magic bullet, but they do increase ridership and increased ridership does in fact result in safer conditions. We're not talking about crowding up a MUP through the park. This is on-street bike lanes. We're talking about more bicycle commuters out on the streets and more drivers getting more experience driving with cyclists around. Education is great, but experience is the best teacher. I have read many times about studies that found as more cyclist took to the street, the number of severe accidents an death was reduced.

Personally, I can take them or leave them. I am plenty comfortable riding on the street without them. I know where they have put more bike lanes around where I live, the number of cyclists on the road has gone up pretty dramatically. You hardly ever see a bike on the street in my town in areas where there are no bike lanes. I think riding a bike on the road is a reasonably safe thing to do. The magic paint just tricks people who think its entirely too dangerous into getting out and riding.

Andy_K 

It's both really. The space is all I need, but without the paint there some cars would take that space. Obviously a few cars do anyway, but I find that most drivers do respect paint on the road. Drivers, I think, mostly operate on auto-pilot. A white line guides them pretty well.

If I woke up tommorow and the line wasn't there but for some mystical reason the cars all stayed to the left side of the available space, I'd be happy -- surprised but happy.

buzzman

Interesting. Your comments parallel my experience as well. I have an 8 mile city streets commute that I've done for 20 years without bike lanes. Three years ago they started adding bike lanes. Sure I'd done the ride all those years without the bike lanes but with is much better than without. All but one and a half miles is now bike laned and as soon as I get to the section without the bike lanes I definitely notice the difference.

On a side note, my other commuting route is via an MUP. Dependent on the time of day that is the best way in and out of the city in comparison. Sure, on sunny, warm days it's crowded and annoying but I'm a year round 7 day a week, rain or shine rider and most of the time I have a clear run in and out of the city.

Ratchet

Dude, whatcha been smokin' in Amsterdam? You speak of this
Euphoria a lot... I might like biking a whole lot, but I'd seldom call it euphoric... Utopia, perhaps...

BridgeNotTunnel

Bike lanes are only good when not misused.

The lanes in Manhattan are a constant gauntlet of wrong way bikes, pedicabs (half in bike lane, half in car lane), merchants pushing carts the wrong way in the bike lane, people using it as an alternate sidewalk in either direction, cabs cutting it off to drop off/pick-up passengers, and every other vehicle crowding/parking/driving in it as well.

I would rather have one than not, but it's definitely a mixed blessing. I'm not some fixie riding, traffic weaving, suicidal/homicidal maniac, quicksilver messenger wannabe, so I value and respect the lanes greatly.

I just want to get home, safely.

buzzman

While I agree with your post, I have to say, as someone who also rides quite a bit in NYC, it kind of goes with the territory. Manhattan was never all that bike friendly- I used to ride there 20 years ago when there were no bike lanes and compared to now- It's a world of difference. The bike lanes are seriously misused and abused but they have, in general, improved a bad situation to something tolerable.

buzzman

"Would you still feel safe riding on it in the morning?" Hmmm, taken out of context you pose an interesting question.

But with regards the stripes and bike lanes I look at it this way.

You're cutting a length of plywood right down the center. You mark the beginning and end points of the cut and then draw a line from one to the other and you make your cut. Should come out pretty straight.

Now make the same cut, just as straight, without the line. Not so easy.

It's got to do with providing a reference point for the driver (and the cyclist) to hold their line.

I could be wrong but that's how I see it.

Pobble.808

I wish!!

mikeybikes

Fortunately, I've been riding enough to expect right hooks.

It is the poor newbies that are just learning about the bike lanes that I feel for.

chipcom 

Probably the most valid answer I've seen. Painted lines are about order and our places or spaces. This is why Foresterites and other cycling extremists go absolutely bat crap about bike lanes and segregated infrastructure...because they feel that it not only puts us in our place, but gives the notion that is the only place we belong. Whenever I see mandatory use laws, I tend to agree with the former.

IMO, in a perfect world we could have bike lanes without mandatory use laws.

buzzman

These are really important points. One of the great attractions of getting places by bicycle is the freedom it affords.

We are not licensed. For the most part not registered. We have a multitude of liberties that are not afforded to us when we are in a motorized vehicle. This is why many bicyclists, bristle at mandatory laws that impinge on those freedoms. Mandatory helmet laws, mandatory use of bike lanes or bike paths or other restrictions on our right to travel unimpeded. (That doesn't mean I don't use or often prefer bike lanes and helmets- I'm just not into mandating their use.

I believe that fewer legal restrictions on bicycling are better than imposing more restrictions. While I obey vehicular traffic laws like red lights and stop signs (for the most part ) I believe that bicyclists would be better served by legislation like the Idaho Stop law so that cyclists are not beholden to laws that are designed for automotive traffic and not bicycles.

But this is really a digression and a separate issue from bike lanes themselves. As I said in my previous post, they are just lines that help many motorists and cyclists keep a steady line.

Given the percentage of distracted, drunk or otherwise impaired drivers I think many of them need all the help they can get to keep from swerving all over the road.

chipcom 

I don't think painted lines do anything for distracted, drunk or otherwise impaired drivers other than provide evidence after-the-fact that they couldn't hold their line.

buzzman

You could be right.

As for me, I'll give them, and all the other bozos on the road, every possible excuse not to hit me. If that means drawing a line in the sand and saying, "Don't cross it." then I'll do it.

And if I, for any valid reason, see it fit to cross that line and leave the bike lane then they better make room for me in the lane with them. It's not a two way street so far as I'm concerned. Maybe I'm one of those "entitled" bike riders who think they own the road but another reason for bike lanes is that it is a reminder to drivers that bikes may be present on the road. It validates our being there and most reasonable drivers will understand that if I leave the bike lane it's because some jerk is parked there or it's filled with debris or it's too close to opening doors or I want to make a left turn. If they don't understand then let's argue it in court or in the halls of the local legislation.

Maybe after a decade or two of more cyclists on the road in bike lanes we can let the bike lanes fade away and drivers will be more accustomed and accommodating of our presence, until then I'll take a bike lane when provided and clear for my use.

DG Going Uphill

I think bike lanes being safe is all about design. The bike lanes in San Jose, CA are the scariest, most dangerous things I've ever been on, leading to endless near misses and getting hit a few times. The new bike lanes in San Francisco make me feel safer and less stressed in most spots. In Berkeley, CA, with the slower, narrower roads, the free for all of bikes, pedestrians and cars seems pretty safe.