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Getting lean as a Masters rider

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Getting lean as a Masters rider

Old 02-05-20, 08:25 PM
  #26  
Emilio700
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Weight management from an experienced racer

A few bits of advice, based on personal experience. My background: Racing for 30 years, 57 years old last week. In 2019 I was 2nd or 3rd at Master Marathon XC, road race, XC and cyclocross nationals. 3rd at 2019 XC worlds.
Two national championships in prior years. 6' 3", 159lbs race weight. This add some veracity to my comments below. It's not just stuff I read on facebook and quoted without having tried it myself

Something I posted on another forum:

It's good to have a goal weight based on BMI (body mass index). Google that for a calculator. Healthy for a man is about 21.5 on the lean end to maybe 24.5 on the muscly end. 21.5~22, assuming body fat is close to 10% or less, is a good all round weight for a cyclist. If climbing matters to you, that can dip down to 19.8. I hover at 19.9~20.2 (6-3") because I want to go up hills faster than anyone on the planet in my age group. Plenty of really strong local riders with BMI's above 25 and low body fat, they just suffer on longer climbs and generally don't have the aerobic efficiency of the skinny riders. That extra muscle gets you explosiveness (short hills, sharp accelerations on the flat) at the cost of "fuel economy".

A have a few basic guidelines for my diet and maintaining my weight targets
- Lots of water. Few ounces soon as you wake up. Min of 1L a day if you don't ride. .5~.75L in the hour before bed. Being dehydrated when you sleep slows down metabolism so you don't recover. Other concern about dehydration during sleep is calorie burning. Body needs hydration to do work, rebuild during sleep. That "work" raises metabolic rate, which generates more core temp and burns calories. If I go to bed dehyrated, I might only lose 1/2 lb during the night. If I go to bed hydrated, I'll wake up at some point to take a leak, drink some more and go back to bed. I then wake up 2-3lbs lighter than if I was dehydrated. I'll also be cold during the night if I'm dehydrated but feel warmer or kick covers off when well hydrated. That's the difference between low and high metabolism. Body releases HGH during REM sleep. So good, deep, long sleep is vital to recovery, keeping metabolic rate high and burning calories.

- Snack, don't binge then starve. The entire western style of big breakfast, lunch, dinner with nothing in between is an artifact of our agrarian roots. It has no place in a modern lifestyle. Eat smaller meals, keep energy up with high protein, or fatty or low glycemic snacks. I eat nuts, cheese, protein shake during the day to keep energy up and manage hunger.

- Dinner. I basically don't eat dinner on days I don't train. On days I do train, I eat only a small, high protein dinner. Essentially, we don't need dinner most of the time. I do a small breakfast with good protein, normal sized lunch and minimal dinner. I'll snack when I get home, maybe 150-300 calories. Try to stop eating well before bed. Keeping high protein in diet helps stave off hunger.

- Protein intake should be like hydration.. constant. An athlete needs a constant, steady supply of protein. At 160 lbs, I eat a minimum of 60g off but usually more like 90-120g per day.

-Fat and carbs. Don't be afraid of fat. An athlete burns a lot and you need it in your diet. It's just calories. Carbs are what mess with your metabolism if you over do it. Basic outline, I cut carbs way back on days I don't train, just sticking to protein and fat. On days you train, learn to match you carb intake to work load. You are basically trying to keep muscle glycogen topped off without over fueling. It's take practice and paying close attention to weight, energy level, calories burned during training. Understand that repeated or long rides will raise metabolism for many hours or even a full day after training. Recover and fuel accordingly. One things that helps manage carbs is to start trimming starch and grains here and there. Burger on lettuce, salad with meat on it, home made charcuterie plate instead of dinner, things like that. When yo have done a long, high calorie burn ride, don't fret the carbs. Short 45 minute interval workout, maybe skip the pizza.

- Don't obsess too much about the quality and carb/fat/protein ratio as much as total quantity of calories. Despite the efforts of the multi-billion dollar diet and sports nutrition industries, weight management is just simple calorie management. I promise you could give you a diet of just donuts, soda pop and water and I could have you drop weight. I would simply restrict calories (a lot). That said, your body is an engine burning fuel just like a car. Better quality fuel equals better performance. But no fuel means no performance, too much fuel means no performance, not enough fuel means you blow up. The right amount and high octane for that engine.

- Consider incorporating more of your protein from plant based sources. Every bit of research that exists on the subject shows no specific benefit from high meat intake but many benefits from a more plant based diet. Protein needs a complete amino acid profile to be of any use. Many combos of two different sources like dark beans and whole grains. Google for more combos. But Quinoa, Peas and Soy are complete protein. Soy not great for male masters athletes as its high in phytoestrogens. Unless you're into manboobs. So soy in moderation. Whey very good but animal based. Quinoa is basically superfood. A Tour de France rider could switch to getting all their protein from Quinoa without issue.

- To maintain a healthy BMI of 22-24 means only occasional hunger pangs. To get below 22, you have to get used to being hungry for long periods during the day. Not starving, stomach churning but feeling like you could have had another serving.. all the time. It's work to stay that light but it pays off when you race bikes.
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Old 02-07-20, 01:56 PM
  #27  
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47, 6'3" 185#, 10% body fat or so on 10/1. quit drinking. 11/1 quit meat and dairy aka plant based athlete. currently 167#, very little body fat, and for the first time in a long time my wife is worried again about my weight. training and riding 8 to 12 hours a week, so nothing major there. dont log my food and eat when I am hungry. while dropping beer was likely a huge factor being plant based is right up there. i feel better, sleep better, and recover better. back to back hard efforts are "easier" these days as a result. that's all i know. later.
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Old 02-12-20, 09:03 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by aham23 View Post
47, 6'3" 185#, 10% body fat or so on 10/1. quit drinking. 11/1 quit meat and dairy aka plant based athlete. currently 167#, very little body fat, and for the first time in a long time my wife is worried again about my weight. training and riding 8 to 12 hours a week, so nothing major there. dont log my food and eat when I am hungry. while dropping beer was likely a huge factor being plant based is right up there. i feel better, sleep better, and recover better. back to back hard efforts are "easier" these days as a result. that's all i know. later.

Are you going plant based as a lifestyle choice going forward ? or using it as an experiment for this season
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Old 02-12-20, 10:15 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
Are you going plant based as a lifestyle choice going forward ? or using it as an experiment for this season

Lifestyle choice. I was never a big meat eater. The bigger lose is dairy. Love pizza, cheese, ice cream ect.... In general my diet was crap and full of processed stuff. So this is a good thing for me.
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Old 02-12-20, 06:42 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
When I was 47, I weighed 325. When I celebrated my 50th birthday, I weighed 165.

I have maintained my weight within 5 lbs of 170 since 2013.

BB
Damn!!!!
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Old 02-13-20, 10:18 AM
  #31  
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Worth every bit of effort and self control. Healthy tastes better than another slice of pizza.
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Old 02-14-20, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by aham23 View Post
Lifestyle choice. I was never a big meat eater. The bigger lose is dairy. Love pizza, cheese, ice cream ect.... In general my diet was crap and full of processed stuff. So this is a good thing for me.

a woman i was dating tried to go plant based. For her it was too drastic a change and she burned out. It doesnt sound like you had to make a complete 180 degree change to do it, although dairy is a big loss.

She just obsessed with making substitute foods for the foods she was giving up so much that she didnt realize how much over processed over hyped stuff she was starting to put back into her body

i had never before heard of someone going vegan and then gaining weight .
But she was sweet and i wish her the best in all her future endeavors regardless
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Old 02-14-20, 03:48 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
a woman i was dating tried to go plant based. For her it was too drastic a change and she burned out. ...
FWIW, I credit my success to starting slow and making minor changes I could live with. If I had tried to go from what I was eating to how I eat now, I would have crashed and burned before a week was out. But gradual change and compromise meant I made diet and lifestyle changes that I can stick with. My criteria at every step in the process was that I wanted to make lifestyle changes I could/would live with for the rest of my life, not short term diet changes. So far, so good.

BB
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Last edited by bbbean; 02-14-20 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 02-14-20, 04:43 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
i had never before heard of someone going vegan and then gaining weight .
The only diet/people that I see on large basis that is not fat is Japan. I think some it's their diet but I think a much large part is portion control.
https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/...apanese-diet#1

"The Japanese diet is the iPod of food," says Naomi Moriyama, co-author of Japanese Women Don't Get Old or Fat: Secrets of My Mother's Tokyo Kitchen, "it concentrates the magnificent energy of food into a compact and pleasurable size." And you don't have to cook Japanese-style to enjoy the diet's healthy foundations -- just eat more fish, vegetables, and fruit; serve smaller portions; eat mindfully and slowly; and add some healthy options like tofu and rice, she says. Here's how to get started.

First, the benefits. "Thanks to the relatively healthier Japanese diet and lifestyle, Japanese women and men live longer and healthier than everyone else on Earth," Moriyama tells WebMD. Not only can they expect to live 86 and 79 years respectively (compared to 80 and 75 years for Americans), but they can also anticipate an average of 75 years lived healthy and disability-free, the World Health Organization reports. On top of that, Japanese people enjoy the No. 1 lowest obesity rate in the developed world -- 3% -- versus 11% for the French and 32% for Americans, according to the International Obesity TaskForce. "You might think it's all in our genes," Moriyama says. "But when Japanese people adopt a Western-style diet, they put on weight quickly."

I don't know how to say this PC. 50% of my cowokers are vegan and they are all fat and out of shape. ( anyone in the bay area that works for a hitech company will tell you the same) I see zero difference in being vegan or meat eater at my work.

I see a huge different in people who work out and care what they put in their body. portion control etc...

Vegan is not some magic bullet.. You still need portion control. Exercise to be toned and have good cardio and heart.
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Old 02-19-20, 08:23 AM
  #35  
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Recent podcasts point to some modest use of HIIT being good to improve insulin sensitivity when paired properly with rest and recovery.
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Old 02-21-20, 03:42 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Recent podcasts point to some modest use of HIIT being good to improve insulin sensitivity when paired properly with rest and recovery.
"Recent podcasts" aren't exactly in the same league as "recent studies", or "peer reviewed articles", so let me fix that for you:

See https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...=1&oi=scholart
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Old 02-21-20, 03:57 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by dennis55 View Post
I do the above and eat no bread, no sugar, few beers and never more than 2. Eat lots of salad. I stay hungry.
Yup.
This is an important key, to drop weight and stay light means spending at least part of the day hungry. Occasionally being a little bit hungry the entire day. Finding foods that have low calorie density like salads, helps a lot in this regard.

Most people are conditioned to not ever get too hungry and to fully stuff themselves at least once a day. That's the recipe for putting on too much muscle and fat.

I stuff myself maybe once a week if that. And only after I've ridden a minimum of 4 hours. The rest of the time I always stop eating well before I am full.

Lately, having incorporated strength training into my regime again, I find myself putting on muscle. Not a massive amount but there's the last two pounds I'm struggling to keep off that I didn't have any problem with last year before the strength training. So I'm keeping the protein in but having to cut way back on the carbs to keep from getting bigger.
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Old 02-21-20, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
"Recent podcasts" aren't exactly in the same league as "recent studies", or "peer reviewed articles", so let me fix that for you:

See https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...=1&oi=scholart
Why so smug? You realize Fasttalk and others host the actual PhD writers of these studies, right?

Also Coggan and others have had forum handles on Slowtwitch and other forums to discuss these studies in the open. Theyíve also held Skype Q&As for the benefit of the forums to present the studies.

So, Iíd dial it back just a touch.
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Old 02-24-20, 09:58 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Why so smug?
Why so defensive? In the absence of specific references, "recent podcasts" are as conclusive as "recent conversations at the coffee house."
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Old 04-10-20, 10:09 AM
  #40  
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Got back into cycling and went from 212 to 159 in five months.

Feed your training, not your appetite. With race training, it's a waste of hurt to get careless with diet.

Look up Mediterranean diet. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...t/art-20047801

Find a set of recipes, meals and between-meal snacks you like and learn them. Have enough recipes to give you variety, but few enough that you know the calorie content of each recipe and you can easily prepare them.

Plan your meals around your training. Plan your between-meal snacks as well.

Good luck!

And when the hunger pangs strike, ask yourself, "Are these as bad as the final 30 seconds of your last effort of MaxV02 training.

Once you start feeding your training, then weight loss is much easier.
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Old 05-11-20, 12:29 PM
  #41  
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I have studies diet diaries for guys 'who are doing everything right but just can't lose weight'. Weight loss or gain can be looked at plus or minus 200 calories per day. Often, that 200 calories can easily be seen as 'healthy' snacks, taken after meals or between meals - e.g. a bananna, a 'diet' yogurt, an apple, etc - it all adds up, so it's worth keeping a detailed diary for a while to monitor yourself.
Another piece of advice I give, which people find useful, is to aim to cut all portions by around 10% - even the treats. The 'loss' is hardly noticible from any meal or snack but is, of course, a very big reducation overall.
And, yes, get used to the sensation of hunger!
Fasted rides of over 2 hours of easy riding are not generally recommended unless you are specifially adapted to it - you can go into a 'catabolic' state after that, burning muscle in part.
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Old 05-11-20, 12:58 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by tomgdaly View Post
I have studies diet diaries for guys 'who are doing everything right but just can't lose weight'. Weight loss or gain can be looked at plus or minus 200 calories per day. Often, that 200 calories can easily be seen as 'healthy' snacks, taken after meals or between meals - e.g. a bananna, a 'diet' yogurt, an apple, etc - it all adds up, so it's worth keeping a detailed diary for a while to monitor yourself.
Another piece of advice I give, which people find useful, is to aim to cut all portions by around 10% - even the treats. The 'loss' is hardly noticible from any meal or snack but is, of course, a very big reducation overall.
And, yes, get used to the sensation of hunger!
Fasted rides of over 2 hours of easy riding are not generally recommended unless you are specifially adapted to it - you can go into a 'catabolic' state after that, burning muscle in part.
Yup.

The idea, and practice of making massive changes to diet to lose weight never works. It's simply making a small adjustment, like 200 calories a day and sticking to it. Gotta be patient. Weight will fluctuate but if you are persistent, it will trend down and you won't be starving.

Also agreed and danger of fasted rides. Nothing worse than purposely bonking on a ride then being really sore for a few days afterward because your muscles ate themselves to get you home. We do such careful work to build highly efficient musculature. Take care of it, don't toss it into the fire. Eating minimally on 2-5hr very low intensity (Z1) OTOH, is very effective at training your systems to operate with greater economy.
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Old 05-12-20, 10:16 AM
  #43  
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I was always thin but after having kids in my 20s, the weight gain started.



In my later thirties, I was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid and told to lose the weight. I did Ė and when people asked about it, they were SO disappointed that I cited diet and exercise. Like I had a magic pill!



Fast forward to my fifties, when the menopause weight gain became untenable. After spending a lot of my life hovering around a hundred lbs, I did not want to go out north of 150!



Anyway, diet and exercise baby. Diet and exercise. Itís not sexy and itís not fun, but thatís what it is.



As we age, we donít need as many calories. We canít eat like we used to.



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Old 05-30-20, 11:10 PM
  #44  
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cut out some of the carbs and sugars mix in some resistance training and bike sprints instead of just long distance rides
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Old 06-17-20, 12:51 AM
  #45  
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I was 86kg in January 2019...for me that was obese since I am short, only 1.68m. Having raced at 58kg in my 20's I was some way from being where I needed to be.

I used an app on my watch to track calories in and out, went to gym for 1 hour every day, walked for 1 hour every day and cycled 2-4 hours 5 days a week. I paid no attention to any special diet. I ate the same things I normally do, neither very unhealthy nor very healthy. I was 66kg 3 months later in time for my 50th birthday.

Today I am much fitter, far stronger and weigh in at 65kg. I plan t lose another 1 or 2 kg over time but I'm as fit and fast as I was in my late 20's. I am definitely able to challenge top spot for my age group in my region.

Calorie deficit and exercise, worked for me. I now eat as much as I did in my 'fat' years but in moderation according to the exercise I have done on the day.
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