Tire not seating - do I have a the wrong tube/tire size?
07-01-20, 05:13 PM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Tire not seating - do I have a the wrong tube/tire size?
Hello,
I have the 2015 Raleigh back alley that came with a 23c tire and tube. I had my local bike shop as per their suggestion upgrade it to a 28c tire and tube but I'm wondering if the rim is too small for the 28c.
I'm have a big low spot on the tire while I ride - surprising only on the back tire - how much ever I try to seat the tire/properly I have a low spot, I even tried the soap method.
Here is an image of the tube fitted on the rim and inflated to 20psi not sure if the gap is an indication of the wrong size.
Any help so really appreciated
I have the 2015 Raleigh back alley that came with a 23c tire and tube. I had my local bike shop as per their suggestion upgrade it to a 28c tire and tube but I'm wondering if the rim is too small for the 28c.
I'm have a big low spot on the tire while I ride - surprising only on the back tire - how much ever I try to seat the tire/properly I have a low spot, I even tried the soap method.
Here is an image of the tube fitted on the rim and inflated to 20psi not sure if the gap is an indication of the wrong size.
Any help so really appreciated
Last edited by draxz1289; 07-01-20 at 06:17 PM.
07-01-20, 07:14 PM
#2
Veteran Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,757
Bikes: 32 frames + 80 wheels
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1331 Post(s)
Liked 764 Times
in
431 Posts
First off, the 23 and 28 numbers refer to the tire width, not the tire diameter, so this has nothing to do with the tire fitting on the rim. You clearly have the wrong tire size for that rim. Perhaps (probably) the rim is 700c but the tire is 27", which is slightly larger. Look at the tire sidewall. there should be a number (ETRTO) on it that tells you the tire width and size. For example, if the tire is 700 x 28c, meaning that it fits a 700c rim and is 28mm wide, then this number will be 28-622. If it says 27 x 1-1/4, meaning it fits a 27" rim and is 1-1/4" wide, then this number will be 32-630. The first number is the tire width in millimeters and the second number is the tire bead seat diameter in millimeters. As long as the tire bead seat diameter matches the rim bead seat diameter, the tire will fit properly on the rim.
07-02-20, 12:54 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,688
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times
in
222 Posts
The width of the tire vs the width of the rim is generally far more accommodating. 23 to 28 shouldn’t be a problem. There are charts that list recommended rim/tire width combinations. Or tell us the internal width of your rim.
Soapy water, inflate-and-wrestle in steps will usually get the job done eventually. In extreme cases, when I’ve known the rim to be the odd one out, I’ve built up the inner diameter of the rim using tape to help center the tire.
The tube size is NOT part of your problem. Although getting the reinforcement around the base of the valve caught under the beads might be.
If they mounted the tire, put your tools down and bring it back. Their pick of parts, their instal, their problem.
07-02-20, 06:58 AM
#4
Veteran Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,757
Bikes: 32 frames + 80 wheels
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1331 Post(s)
Liked 764 Times
in
431 Posts
I now realize that your photo is of the tube, not the tire. As @dabac has said, the tube has nothing to do with the tire seating on the rim. When a tube is inflated uncontained by the tire, it will expand to a much larger size than the tire. A 28mm wide tire will usually fit on a rim that previously had a 23mm tire mounted on it, but it can be difficult to mount. Sometimes the tube gets pinched between the tire bead and the rim seat, preventing it from seating. Try inflating the tube slightly inside the tire, before attempting to mount the tire bead. Also, it helps to coat a new tube with talcum powder, to keep it from sticking to the tire casing.
07-02-20, 02:56 PM
#6
Member
Thread Starter
Wow thank you everyone for the reply. As you can see I'm a complete noob.
The tire has a marking of 28-622c (700x28c) and the replacement tube I bought was the Contitube Race 28 (700c) wide
I just checked the bike spec and looks like it came with Kenda Kadence 700x23c tires so that means I suppose I have the correct size rim, tube and tire.
Thanks I just checked the old bike spec that came with it and it says Kenda Kadence 700x23c tires so I guess I was wrong about the incorrect sizes. I actually changed the tires last year but didn't ride it - winter and injury - so can't go back for he shop now 
I have tried the soap and half inflating and working it out but it's still bumpy at one particular spot.
Thanks Tejano, I haven't tried the talcum power will try it again
First off, the 23 and 28 numbers refer to the tire width, not the tire diameter, so this has nothing to do with the tire fitting on the rim. You clearly have the wrong tire size for that rim. Perhaps (probably) the rim is 700c but the tire is 27", which is slightly larger. Look at the tire sidewall. there should be a number (ETRTO) on it that tells you the tire width and size. For example, if the tire is 700 x 28c, meaning that it fits a 700c rim and is 28mm wide, then this number will be 28-622. If it says 27 x 1-1/4, meaning it fits a 27" rim and is 1-1/4" wide, then this number will be 32-630. The first number is the tire width in millimeters and the second number is the tire bead seat diameter in millimeters. As long as the tire bead seat diameter matches the rim bead seat diameter, the tire will fit properly on the rim.
I just checked the bike spec and looks like it came with Kenda Kadence 700x23c tires so that means I suppose I have the correct size rim, tube and tire.
The diameter of the tire pretty much has to match the diameter of the rim. 700C to 700C etc. It’s very rare to get away with fudging this.
The width of the tire vs the width of the rim is generally far more accommodating. 23 to 28 shouldn’t be a problem. There are charts that list recommended rim/tire width combinations. Or tell us the internal width of your rim.
There is a tolerance span in the sizes of rims and tires. Some combinations simply will fight you.
Soapy water, inflate-and-wrestle in steps will usually get the job done eventually. In extreme cases, when I’ve known the rim to be the odd one out, I’ve built up the inner diameter of the rim using tape to help center the tire.
That pic doesn’t say anything. Tubes have very little structural strength themselves. They’re MEANT to stretch until they’ve filled the tire.
The tube size is NOT part of your problem. Although getting the reinforcement around the base of the valve caught under the beads might be.
If they mounted the tire, put your tools down and bring it back. Their pick of parts, their instal, their problem.
The width of the tire vs the width of the rim is generally far more accommodating. 23 to 28 shouldn’t be a problem. There are charts that list recommended rim/tire width combinations. Or tell us the internal width of your rim.
There is a tolerance span in the sizes of rims and tires. Some combinations simply will fight you.
Soapy water, inflate-and-wrestle in steps will usually get the job done eventually. In extreme cases, when I’ve known the rim to be the odd one out, I’ve built up the inner diameter of the rim using tape to help center the tire.
That pic doesn’t say anything. Tubes have very little structural strength themselves. They’re MEANT to stretch until they’ve filled the tire.
The tube size is NOT part of your problem. Although getting the reinforcement around the base of the valve caught under the beads might be.
If they mounted the tire, put your tools down and bring it back. Their pick of parts, their instal, their problem.
I have tried the soap and half inflating and working it out but it's still bumpy at one particular spot.
I now realize that your photo is of the tube, not the tire. As @dabac has said, the tube has nothing to do with the tire seating on the rim. When a tube is inflated uncontained by the tire, it will expand to a much larger size than the tire. A 28mm wide tire will usually fit on a rim that previously had a 23mm tire mounted on it, but it can be difficult to mount. Sometimes the tube gets pinched between the tire bead and the rim seat, preventing it from seating. Try inflating the tube slightly inside the tire, before attempting to mount the tire bead. Also, it helps to coat a new tube with talcum powder, to keep it from sticking to the tire casing.
07-02-20, 03:26 PM
#7
Member
Thread Starter
I have isolated the problem to one patch on the tire the one under the CST logo but when I manually lift the bead it then pushes a section about 5 inches down as vice versa. Could it be the tire is bent somehow?
07-02-20, 04:44 PM
#8
Veteran Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,757
Bikes: 32 frames + 80 wheels
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1331 Post(s)
Liked 764 Times
in
431 Posts
Have you tried inflating the tire to its maximum rated pressure ? That might help the tire pop into place. When you spin the wheel, does the tire move up and down ? As long as the tire is round and does not move up and down, it is ok. If all this fails, you may have a defective tire.
07-02-20, 05:29 PM
#9
Member
Thread Starter
Have you tried inflating the tire to its maximum rated pressure ? That might help the tire pop into place. When you spin the wheel, does the tire move up and down ? As long as the tire is round and does not move up and down, it is ok. If all this fails, you may have a defective tire.
07-02-20, 05:41 PM
#10
Veteran Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,757
Bikes: 32 frames + 80 wheels
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1331 Post(s)
Liked 764 Times
in
431 Posts
Well, it doesn’t look all that out of round or warped to me. It looks more like the label is on crooked. Try riding the bike, and if you don’t feel the rear wheel moving up and down, then don’t worry about it.
07-02-20, 06:00 PM
#11
I am potato.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,105
Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1782 Post(s)
Liked 1,621 Times
in
927 Posts
No. It's not the label. The bead is not seated in the last photo. You can tell by the sighting line that is adjacent to the bead. It dives into the rim at the label. It should be a consistant distance from the edge of the rim.
It's not uncommon to have to fight with this.
Go the full 120 psi. If it does not set, back the pressure down to a reasonably low number, 40-50, or lower like 20, or what ever you are confortable with & manually roll bulk the away from where the low spot is. Reinflate to the full 120 & try again. The pressure will help lift the bead up to the seat.
Some tires can be especially problematic. I avoid Velox (or other cloth rim tape) because in my experience it can negativly affect how the bead centeres on the rim. Thinner rim tape, like the tubeless varieties don't seem to pose the same interferance issues.
It's not uncommon to have to fight with this.
Go the full 120 psi. If it does not set, back the pressure down to a reasonably low number, 40-50, or lower like 20, or what ever you are confortable with & manually roll bulk the away from where the low spot is. Reinflate to the full 120 & try again. The pressure will help lift the bead up to the seat.
Some tires can be especially problematic. I avoid Velox (or other cloth rim tape) because in my experience it can negativly affect how the bead centeres on the rim. Thinner rim tape, like the tubeless varieties don't seem to pose the same interferance issues.
__________________
I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
Car dependency is a tax.
I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
Car dependency is a tax.
07-02-20, 06:26 PM
#12
Member
Thread Starter
No. It's not the label. The bead is not seated in the last photo. You can tell by the sighting line that is adjacent to the bead. It dives into the rim at the label. It should be a consistant distance from the edge of the rim.
It's not uncommon to have to fight with this.
Go the full 120 psi. If it does not set, back the pressure down to a reasonably low number, 40-50, or lower like 20, or what ever you are confortable with & manually roll bulk the away from where the low spot is. Reinflate to the full 120 & try again. The pressure will help lift the bead up to the seat.
Some tires can be especially problematic. I avoid Velox (or other cloth rim tape) because in my experience it can negativly affect how the bead centeres on the rim. Thinner rim tape, like the tubeless varieties don't seem to pose the same interferance issues.
It's not uncommon to have to fight with this.
Go the full 120 psi. If it does not set, back the pressure down to a reasonably low number, 40-50, or lower like 20, or what ever you are confortable with & manually roll bulk the away from where the low spot is. Reinflate to the full 120 & try again. The pressure will help lift the bead up to the seat.
Some tires can be especially problematic. I avoid Velox (or other cloth rim tape) because in my experience it can negativly affect how the bead centeres on the rim. Thinner rim tape, like the tubeless varieties don't seem to pose the same interferance issues.
07-02-20, 07:06 PM
#13
I am potato.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,105
Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1782 Post(s)
Liked 1,621 Times
in
927 Posts
If you can, get yourself a track pump. One with a pressure gage.
__________________
I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
Car dependency is a tax.
I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
Car dependency is a tax.
07-02-20, 07:28 PM
#14
Member
Thread Starter
Likes For draxz1289:
07-02-20, 08:39 PM
#15
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SGV SoCal
Posts: 250
Bikes: 2013 Wilier Gran Turismo, 1983 Trek 760, 80's Colnago Super, 90's De Rosa SLX, 2009 Waterford 22 Series Singlespeed, 85 Medici Pro Strada, De Rosa Alumino frameset, Dave Molten Fuso frameset, 70's beater Peugeot PX10, Zizzo Liberte, 2022 Yoeleo R12
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 199 Times
in
92 Posts
I had the same problem recently mounting a 27” X 1” Panaracer Pasales onto a 70’s Weinmann rim. I had to inflate it to 120 psi before I heard a delayed pop and the tire seated much better.
I
At 100 psi the tire didn’t seat properly and there was a flat spot where the label is.
Pumped up to 120 psi the tire seated much better and I heard a single pop. Still not perfect but much better!
I At 100 psi the tire didn’t seat properly and there was a flat spot where the label is.
Pumped up to 120 psi the tire seated much better and I heard a single pop. Still not perfect but much better!
I
07-02-20, 09:39 PM
#16
Your cog is slipping.
07-03-20, 05:05 AM
#17
Member
Thread Starter
I had the same problem recently mounting a 27” X 1” Panaracer Pasales onto a 70’s Weinmann rim. I had to inflate it to 120 psi before I heard a delayed pop and the tire seated much better.
I
At 100 psi the tire didn’t seat properly and there was a flat spot where the label is.
Pumped up to 120 psi the tire seated much better and I heard a single pop. Still not perfect but much better!
IAt 100 psi the tire didn’t seat properly and there was a flat spot where the label is.
Pumped up to 120 psi the tire seated much better and I heard a single pop. Still not perfect but much better!
I
07-03-20, 05:08 AM
#18
Member
Thread Starter
Also I just noticed that while pumping past 80 the soapy water I had used earlier was starting to ooze out of a tiny spot on the tire, directly where the tire makes contact with road - should I be concerned?
07-03-20, 06:36 AM
#19
Half way there
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,955
Bikes: Many, and the list changes frequently
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 985 Post(s)
Liked 879 Times
in
526 Posts
Is it coming through the tire or from around the rim? The former would imply that you have a pinhole in the tire, which would be unusual for a new tire. I'd dismount the tire and check it closely. A small pinhole is no big deal as long as what's caused it is no longer there.
07-03-20, 06:46 AM
#20
Full Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times
in
78 Posts
I always use a track pump at home, so it's easy to get up to high pressures. When I'm replacing a tyre or tube, II go around the rim squeezing the two sides of the tyre together to get it central. I push the valve down the hole (into the tyre) slightly to reduce the chance of that part of the tube being trapped. I then pump the tube up to about 60 psi then let it down again. My theory is that this gives a chance for any creases or folds to sort themselves out. Then I pump it up to full operating pressure.
A track pump is a good investment for any cyclist.
A track pump is a good investment for any cyclist.
07-04-20, 07:38 AM
#21
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SGV SoCal
Posts: 250
Bikes: 2013 Wilier Gran Turismo, 1983 Trek 760, 80's Colnago Super, 90's De Rosa SLX, 2009 Waterford 22 Series Singlespeed, 85 Medici Pro Strada, De Rosa Alumino frameset, Dave Molten Fuso frameset, 70's beater Peugeot PX10, Zizzo Liberte, 2022 Yoeleo R12
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 199 Times
in
92 Posts
OP, I’m using a 20v Dewalt compressor with a presta valve head screwed onto the hose to pump up to 120 lbs. I have over a dozen bikes so the compressor comes in handy.
The Dewalt is rated to go up to 160 psi.
The Dewalt is rated to go up to 160 psi.
07-04-20, 10:10 PM
#22
Senior Member
I had a similar issue with a foldable tire that I bought at walmart. I ended up changing out to a non-foldable wire-bead tire and it fixed my issue. I personally think that some older rims may not have in the rim wall to hook into the bead, at least that was my theory...
07-05-20, 06:38 AM
#23
Veteran Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,757
Bikes: 32 frames + 80 wheels
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1331 Post(s)
Liked 764 Times
in
431 Posts
Your problem was not that it was a foldable bead tire, but that you bought a cheap tire at Wallyworld. I’ve never had a problem getting quality folding bead tires to seat properly. Are you saying that your rim lacks a hook at the edge to retain the tire ? The only impact of this would be that you could not inflate a tire to a high pressure without the risk of it blowing off the rim. It would not affect the ability of the tire to seat fully on the rim.
07-06-20, 09:39 AM
#24
Senior Member
Your problem was not that it was a foldable bead tire, but that you bought a cheap tire at Wallyworld. I’ve never had a problem getting quality folding bead tires to seat properly. Are you saying that your rim lacks a hook at the edge to retain the tire ? The only impact of this would be that you could not inflate a tire to a high pressure without the risk of it blowing off the rim. It would not affect the ability of the tire to seat fully on the rim.