NBD-2019 Cervelo R3
07-25-20, 05:25 PM
#51
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Why don't you post the model number of the BB that you're talking about?
07-25-20, 05:28 PM
#52
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Is this the BB you have?
https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/...xoCQvgQAvD_BwE
https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/...xoCQvgQAvD_BwE
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07-25-20, 05:33 PM
#53
Member
I have BBright/Sram DUB, so the BBInfinite model is:
BBRT-DUB-RD-BLK-ASMCT
I believe all BBInfnite BBs are one-piece. Interesting designs- make sense.
BBRT-DUB-RD-BLK-ASMCT
I believe all BBInfnite BBs are one-piece. Interesting designs- make sense.
Last edited by kip.duff; 07-25-20 at 05:39 PM.
07-25-20, 05:37 PM
#54
Senior Member
Just got mine- same color as yours- but disc set up.
The pictures don't do these justice. This is one of the most finely made things I've ever seen or owned. If it rides as good as it looks....
I was gonna install a one-piece BB from BBInfinite, but center bore area of BB bore on bike is a little smaller ID that outer shoulder ID areas,
so I don't see how it will work.
The pictures don't do these justice. This is one of the most finely made things I've ever seen or owned. If it rides as good as it looks....
I was gonna install a one-piece BB from BBInfinite, but center bore area of BB bore on bike is a little smaller ID that outer shoulder ID areas,
so I don't see how it will work.
All BB's have a slight chamfer to them in order to aid install/alignment
07-25-20, 05:46 PM
#55
Member
Well, good news! But I'm scared, so I'll wait for specific instructions and confirmation from BBInfinite. This frame's getting royal treatment- such a beaut... Hopefully I'm just being dumb and missing something. After a few more posts, I will be able to attach a photo of the little shoulder I'm referring to.
07-25-20, 07:30 PM
#56
Senior Member
Well, good news! But I'm scared, so I'll wait for specific instructions and confirmation from BBInfinite. This frame's getting royal treatment- such a beaut... Hopefully I'm just being dumb and missing something. After a few more posts, I will be able to attach a photo of the little shoulder I'm referring to.
But, yah, post a photo when you can.
Have you installed a BB before?
07-25-20, 08:13 PM
#57
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My R3 has a BBRight BBInfinite in it. I had my LBS install it though so I can't give any pointers on installation. Congrats, on the new bike, you'll love it.
07-25-20, 10:29 PM
#58
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07-26-20, 10:58 PM
#59
Member
OK- maybe I can post now and attach pictures.
Well, not allowed to post pictures apparently till I've done 10 posts. Maybe this is #10.
The BB bore in my bike is slightly narrower in the middle areas- and widens to slightly larger ID at either side, "D". I'm worried that there will be too much resistance while trying to push the BBInfinite BB right shoulder thru this narrow section. The guy at BBI doesn't seem worried, but I sent him the drawing just to try to see if we're on the same page. I imagined that the BBI install would work for a BB bore like "A". Mine is like "B". Do you know or remember if your BB bore is like mine? (when I post the pics, this will make more sense).
I got a few things done- seat and forks installed. Any protocol for setting preload on steer head bearings?
SRAM eTap Red ASX 12-speed HYD 1X kit and Red DUB crankset with 46 tooth will be here Tuesday.
Well, not allowed to post pictures apparently till I've done 10 posts. Maybe this is #10.
The BB bore in my bike is slightly narrower in the middle areas- and widens to slightly larger ID at either side, "D". I'm worried that there will be too much resistance while trying to push the BBInfinite BB right shoulder thru this narrow section. The guy at BBI doesn't seem worried, but I sent him the drawing just to try to see if we're on the same page. I imagined that the BBI install would work for a BB bore like "A". Mine is like "B". Do you know or remember if your BB bore is like mine? (when I post the pics, this will make more sense).
I got a few things done- seat and forks installed. Any protocol for setting preload on steer head bearings?
SRAM eTap Red ASX 12-speed HYD 1X kit and Red DUB crankset with 46 tooth will be here Tuesday.
07-26-20, 11:00 PM
#60
Member
BTW, I've never seen a forum restrict posting pics. Also, I was not allowed to post replies later yesterday- only 5 or 10 posts allowed per day?
07-26-20, 11:03 PM
#61
Member
OK- maybe I can post now and attach pictures.
Well, not allowed to post pictures apparently till I've done 10 posts. Maybe this is #10.
The BB bore in my bike is slightly narrower in the middle areas- and widens to slightly larger ID at either side, "D". I'm worried that there will be too much resistance while trying to push the BBInfinite BB right shoulder thru this narrow section. The guy at BBI doesn't seem worried, but I sent him the drawing just to try to see if we're on the same page. I imagined that the BBI install would work for a BB bore like "A". Mine is like "B". Do you know or remember if your BB bore is like mine? (when I post the pics, this will make more sense).
I got a few things done- seat and forks installed. Any protocol for setting preload on steer head bearings?
SRAM eTap Red ASX 12-speed HYD 1X kit and Red DUB crankset with 46 tooth will be here Tuesday.
Well, not allowed to post pictures apparently till I've done 10 posts. Maybe this is #10.
The BB bore in my bike is slightly narrower in the middle areas- and widens to slightly larger ID at either side, "D". I'm worried that there will be too much resistance while trying to push the BBInfinite BB right shoulder thru this narrow section. The guy at BBI doesn't seem worried, but I sent him the drawing just to try to see if we're on the same page. I imagined that the BBI install would work for a BB bore like "A". Mine is like "B". Do you know or remember if your BB bore is like mine? (when I post the pics, this will make more sense).
I got a few things done- seat and forks installed. Any protocol for setting preload on steer head bearings?
SRAM eTap Red ASX 12-speed HYD 1X kit and Red DUB crankset with 46 tooth will be here Tuesday.
07-27-20, 03:33 PM
#62
Member
I found a bike mechanic who had done a one-piece BB install on a Cervelo bike. The mechanic knew exactly what I was talking about. He had done an install on a Cervelo with custom paint and was quite worried. He could see the issue- when the right shoulder of the BB got to the slightly narrower part of the bore, he didn't think it was safe to proceed- there was way too much resistance. After consulting with other mechanics, they decided to use silicone paste- no Loctite. It still took a whole bunch of force to get thru the center section.
You guys who have had BBInfinite BBs (or other one-piece BBs) installed at your LBS, if you're OK with it, I'd like get the name of the bike store so I could talk to a couple other mechanics who have done this install. Info gathered is relevant to this thread for anyone else wanting to do this. Based on what I see, this is NOT a normal install for a one-piece BB. The area between the shoulders in the bore needs to be wider ID- not narrower. I suppose I could get a Flex-Hone, tape off the shoulder areas, and hone out the center area so it's a little wider than the shoulders. The correspondence I had with BBInfinite did not directly address my question- just said "there's been thousands of installs with no problem".
You guys who have had BBInfinite BBs (or other one-piece BBs) installed at your LBS, if you're OK with it, I'd like get the name of the bike store so I could talk to a couple other mechanics who have done this install. Info gathered is relevant to this thread for anyone else wanting to do this. Based on what I see, this is NOT a normal install for a one-piece BB. The area between the shoulders in the bore needs to be wider ID- not narrower. I suppose I could get a Flex-Hone, tape off the shoulder areas, and hone out the center area so it's a little wider than the shoulders. The correspondence I had with BBInfinite did not directly address my question- just said "there's been thousands of installs with no problem".
07-27-20, 03:40 PM
#63
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I found a bike mechanic who had done a one-piece BB install on a Cervelo bike. The mechanic knew exactly what I was talking about. He had done an install on a Cervelo with custom paint and was quite worried. He could see the issue- when the right shoulder of the BB got to the slightly narrower part of the bore, he didn't think it was safe to proceed- there was way too much resistance. After consulting with other mechanics, they decided to use silicone paste- no Loctite. It still took a whole bunch of force to get thru the center section.
You guys who have had BBInfinite BBs (or other one-piece BBs) installed at your LBS, if you're OK with it, I'd like get the name of the bike store so I could talk to a couple other mechanics who have done this install. Info gathered is relevant to this thread for anyone else wanting to do this. Based on what I see, this is NOT a normal install for a one-piece BB. The area between the shoulders in the bore needs to be wider ID- not narrower. I suppose I could get a Flex-Hone, tape off the shoulder areas, and hone out the center area so it's a little wider than the shoulders. The correspondence I had with BBInfinite did not directly address my question- just said "there's been thousands of installs with no problem".
You guys who have had BBInfinite BBs (or other one-piece BBs) installed at your LBS, if you're OK with it, I'd like get the name of the bike store so I could talk to a couple other mechanics who have done this install. Info gathered is relevant to this thread for anyone else wanting to do this. Based on what I see, this is NOT a normal install for a one-piece BB. The area between the shoulders in the bore needs to be wider ID- not narrower. I suppose I could get a Flex-Hone, tape off the shoulder areas, and hone out the center area so it's a little wider than the shoulders. The correspondence I had with BBInfinite did not directly address my question- just said "there's been thousands of installs with no problem".
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07-27-20, 03:56 PM
#64
Senior Member
Ok, so I was thinking of something else (the edges being tapered, which is normal).
Your BB looks like it came out undersized, and was then machined down to get it to the correct spec...it shows that they actually have QC in place, and that is was caught before going out. But it also shows that they took the lazy way out (i.e, not doing the whole shell). On my 3 Cerveols, the carbon color/layup was uniform all the way through, and I had zero issues installing a BBinfinite on 2 of them (the other got a Wheels Mfg. two piece).
Personally, I'd just return the BBinfinite and go with a two piece, thread-together BB, like a Wheels Mfg. Since the actual surface that the BB interfaces with is in spec, I'm pretty sure no brand would be willing to warranty a frame like that.
Or you can try to install the BBinfinite and stop if you feel an unnecessary amount of pushback.
Your BB looks like it came out undersized, and was then machined down to get it to the correct spec...it shows that they actually have QC in place, and that is was caught before going out. But it also shows that they took the lazy way out (i.e, not doing the whole shell). On my 3 Cerveols, the carbon color/layup was uniform all the way through, and I had zero issues installing a BBinfinite on 2 of them (the other got a Wheels Mfg. two piece).
Personally, I'd just return the BBinfinite and go with a two piece, thread-together BB, like a Wheels Mfg. Since the actual surface that the BB interfaces with is in spec, I'm pretty sure no brand would be willing to warranty a frame like that.
Or you can try to install the BBinfinite and stop if you feel an unnecessary amount of pushback.
07-27-20, 04:15 PM
#65
Member
Ok, so I was thinking of something else (the edges being tapered, which is normal).
Your BB looks like it came out undersized, and was then machined down to get it to the correct spec...it shows that they actually have QC in place, and that is was caught before going out. But it also shows that they took the lazy way out (i.e, not doing the whole shell). On my 3 Cerveols, the carbon color/layup was uniform all the way through, and I had zero issues installing a BBinfinite on 2 of them (the other got a Wheels Mfg. two piece).
Personally, I'd just return the BBinfinite and go with a two piece, thread-together BB, like a Wheels Mfg. Since the actual surface that the BB interfaces with is in spec, I'm pretty sure no brand would be willing to warranty a frame like that.
Or you can try to install the BBinfinite and stop if you feel an unnecessary amount of pushback.
Your BB looks like it came out undersized, and was then machined down to get it to the correct spec...it shows that they actually have QC in place, and that is was caught before going out. But it also shows that they took the lazy way out (i.e, not doing the whole shell). On my 3 Cerveols, the carbon color/layup was uniform all the way through, and I had zero issues installing a BBinfinite on 2 of them (the other got a Wheels Mfg. two piece).
Personally, I'd just return the BBinfinite and go with a two piece, thread-together BB, like a Wheels Mfg. Since the actual surface that the BB interfaces with is in spec, I'm pretty sure no brand would be willing to warranty a frame like that.
Or you can try to install the BBinfinite and stop if you feel an unnecessary amount of pushback.
I've also heard significant arguments that there is no advantage to ceramic (Hambini and others). Ceramics primarily for over 20k RPM. Guys promoting by spinning the free crank somewhat misleading. Resistance is in seal, ball cage, and lube.
Do you have any feedback on BBI vs Wheels Mfg two-piece.? Ceramic vs steel?
Your answer has really moved me forward in this puzzle. My R3 appears to have somewhat of a blem- or non-conformity. Thanks.......
07-27-20, 06:07 PM
#66
Senior Member
I was attracted to the one-piece concept for rigidity. Several posters said they thought they could feel a difference. In case of these Cervelos, the BB bore is one solid piece/tube itself- unlike other designs which are void between the shoulders. There is already considerable rigidity and unity there before BB install.
I've also heard significant arguments that there is no advantage to ceramic (Hambini and others). Ceramics primarily for over 20k RPM. Guys promoting by spinning the free crank somewhat misleading. Resistance is in seal, ball cage, and lube.
Do you have any feedback on BBI vs Wheels Mfg two-piece.? Ceramic vs steel?
Your answer has really moved me forward in this puzzle. My R3 appears to have somewhat of a blem- or non-conformity. Thanks.......
I've also heard significant arguments that there is no advantage to ceramic (Hambini and others). Ceramics primarily for over 20k RPM. Guys promoting by spinning the free crank somewhat misleading. Resistance is in seal, ball cage, and lube.
Do you have any feedback on BBI vs Wheels Mfg two-piece.? Ceramic vs steel?
Your answer has really moved me forward in this puzzle. My R3 appears to have somewhat of a blem- or non-conformity. Thanks.......
Then, I'd skip ceramic bearings...as you've heard from others, they simply are not worth it. If you absolutely need to squeeze every last watt out of your set-up, and can afford to replace them often, then yah, ceramic probably has its benefits. But for 99.9% of riders, it's a massive waste of money.
Wheels Mfg makes nice BB's, especially for Shimano cranks. I've had them on 3 different bikes and were problem free.
However, I do see that you are using a AXS DUB crank, and I will admit that the BBI performs better with that setup. The Wheels Mfg is far from bad, but I found that the BBI was easier to set up, and I like the fact that it uses a polymer bushing between the axle and bearing (reduces wear). But I'm guessing that someone that's more familiar with setting up Sram cranks could get it to work flawlessly with the Wheels Mfg.
07-27-20, 08:54 PM
#67
Member
melikebikey35:
Thanks for excellent info.
I'm in better dialogue with BBI now. I think he arrived at conclusion that "thousands have been installed with no problem" does not really address the issue well. Also, I emailed Cervelo with the same picture asking if this was normal.
Thanks for excellent info.
I'm in better dialogue with BBI now. I think he arrived at conclusion that "thousands have been installed with no problem" does not really address the issue well. Also, I emailed Cervelo with the same picture asking if this was normal.
07-27-20, 09:28 PM
#68
Full Member
Ok the pic totally spelled it out for me. This isn’t an excuse for Cervelo doing what they did, but I assume that BBRight is typically not a one piece BB so maybe they just machine it as such of a BB hole on the frame comes out undersize.
that does look troublesome for a one piece BB install.
that does look troublesome for a one piece BB install.
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07-27-20, 09:57 PM
#69
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Search for Hambini on youtube. The dude is super knowledgeable regarding BBs... He sells BBs. I also think there is a video about Cervelo and their BBright.
07-27-20, 10:06 PM
#70
Full Member
Hambini is an overly critical tool who makes decent BBs.
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07-28-20, 03:19 PM
#71
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Ok the pic totally spelled it out for me. This isn’t an excuse for Cervelo doing what they did, but I assume that BBRight is typically not a one piece BB so maybe they just machine it as such of a BB hole on the frame comes out undersize.
that does look troublesome for a one piece BB install.
that does look troublesome for a one piece BB install.
Are others like mine? I don't know- but I believe current production is like mine. I emailed this question to Cervelo with the picture attached- I'm curious to find out. Gary at BBInfinite says Cervelos used to have open, void space in the frame BB area between bearing shoulders.
Last edited by kip.duff; 07-28-20 at 03:32 PM.
07-28-20, 03:28 PM
#72
Member
Though I'm no bike expert, the polymer bushings are bugging me. After seeing so much concern and energy spent trying to achieve rigidity, I would think putting relatively soft polymer sleeves between inner race and crankshaft would introduce flex and waist the effort spent trying to get rigidity. Is wheels Mfg. steel to steel at this location?
Last edited by kip.duff; 07-28-20 at 03:34 PM.
07-28-20, 05:23 PM
#73
Senior Member
Though I'm no bike expert, the polymer bushings are bugging me. After seeing so much concern and energy spent trying to achieve rigidity, I would think putting relatively soft polymer sleeves between inner race and crankshaft would introduce flex and waist the effort spent trying to get rigidity. Is wheels Mfg. steel to steel at this location?
DUB and 30mm spindles are aluminum, so in those applications it's steel (bearing) on aluminium (spindle), so the spindle will be the component that absorbs the wear. In 24mm(Shimano) and GXP applications, the spindles are made from steel, so the bushings are not needed.
07-30-20, 06:12 PM
#74
Member
Polymers can be extremely rigid (carbon fiber is a polymer, afterall). Besides, the bushing on a dub BB is only (nominal) 1mm thick, so the potential for energy loss through compression is negligible. You are more likely to experience far greater losses (but still negligible in the grand scheme of things) from the wear to the spindle that is more likely to happen without them. Also, most BBs are made using a polymer housing, and work just fine.
DUB and 30mm spindles are aluminum, so in those applications it's steel (bearing) on aluminium (spindle), so the spindle will be the component that absorbs the wear. In 24mm(Shimano) and GXP applications, the spindles are made from steel, so the bushings are not needed.
DUB and 30mm spindles are aluminum, so in those applications it's steel (bearing) on aluminium (spindle), so the spindle will be the component that absorbs the wear. In 24mm(Shimano) and GXP applications, the spindles are made from steel, so the bushings are not needed.
I will be putting in a Wheels Mfg. or the BBInfinite I already have here. Haven't made my mind yet. Not keen on doing the machining work on the R3 shell to install a one-piece.
Thanks so much for this info. I will post results.
07-31-20, 06:38 AM
#75
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So my "one piece" Wheels Mgf unit actually was 2 pieces that are inserted from either end and they screw together once installed into a single piece. Could you BBInfinite unit be the same?