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Changes to increase speed

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Changes to increase speed

Old 08-05-20, 01:30 PM
  #51  
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I don't get this fascination with cadence. Seems like anyone who's done any training with a powermeter eventually realizes it might be mildly interesting but functionally unimportant.
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Old 08-05-20, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval
And you have 17 posts. I have 3,408 posts. So, there's that.
Hey, we all once had 0 posts. @BoraxKid isn't wrong because he has 17 posts. He's wrong and he has 17 posts.
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Old 08-05-20, 02:06 PM
  #53  
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Cadence is important, but it's also something that people tend to figure out on their own. You can feel what your legs want to do.

The only common exception seems to be when cyclists convince themselves that bottoming out gearing on a climb isn't a performance issue. But that's also not a situation that a cadence meter will help with; the issue isn't that the person doesn't know that their cadence is low, it's that they don't acknowledge the power penalty. In other words, a power readout would be much more informative than a cadence readout.
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Old 08-05-20, 02:29 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by RChung
Hey, we all once had 0 posts. @BoraxKid isn't wrong because he has 17 posts. He's wrong and he has 17 posts.
True, true.

Though that quip was more of a reference to his posting "tip". Always a fun tangent when brand new people give tips on posting to people who have clearly wasted...er...spent... lots of time posting.
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Old 08-05-20, 02:35 PM
  #55  
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Cadence is like bike weight- overvalued and overinvested because it's easier and cheaper to understand and measure than power or CdA. Yes, a lot of beginners would benefit from knowing they are not getting training improvements because they aren't recruiting their whole system enough when pedaling too slowly and coasting too much, or could benefit from not riding tanks on 2 wheels, but those aren't things that need more than some awareness to address.
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Old 08-05-20, 03:01 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by caloso
I don't get this fascination with cadence. Seems like anyone who's done any training with a powermeter eventually realizes it might be mildly interesting but functionally unimportant.
I think it's useful for beginners, because spinning a faster cadence doesn't feel natural at first. Once you've adapted to spinning faster, yeah, obsessing over it is probably chasing phantoms.
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Old 08-05-20, 03:06 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Disagreeing with you does not make his post useless.
ok boomer.
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Old 08-05-20, 03:11 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by surak
Cadence is like bike weight- overvalued and overinvested because it's easier and cheaper to understand and measure than power or CdA. Yes, a lot of beginners would benefit from knowing they are not getting training improvements because they aren't recruiting their whole system enough when pedaling too slowly and coasting too much, or could benefit from not riding tanks on 2 wheels, but those aren't things that need more than some awareness to address.
Well actually, power on the bike is a direct function of cadence and gearing; which is why I suggested using cadence as a proxy for power before investing the money into a power meter. Wow, it's like you didn't even read my post at all!
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Old 08-05-20, 03:12 PM
  #59  
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"Where do Mansplainers get their water? From a well, actually."
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Old 08-05-20, 03:15 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by BoraxKid
Well actually, power on the bike is a direct function of cadence and gearing; which is why I suggested using cadence as a proxy for power before investing the money into a power meter. Wow, it's like you didn't even read my post at all!
How do you get power from cadence and gearing without slope, rolling resistance, CdA, air density, wind speed and direction, and draft effect? Am I responding to a real poster or the bot powered by Strava's power estimation algorithm?
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Old 08-05-20, 03:19 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by mercator
I see all the talk about aero and training, but it seems to me that gearing must be near the top of the list in terms of what needs to be changed. From the OPs description, it sounds like a lot of riding is done in 40-11, or the highest possible gear. And he wants to go faster.

For a comparison, here is the OPs gearing compared to what I am running, and I don't consider myself all that fast. Also I'm old, but I use the 53-12 quite often and I don't think I could even pedal the OPs bike over 30 mph.
Yeah, I think we've wandered into the weeds a bit here. He needs bigger gears, but not necessarily more than, say, 48, because he lives where it's quite flat, and he'll never have a chance to spin out a 48x11 unless there's a hurricane blowing behind him - which, given he lives in Florida, is a distinct possibility.
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Old 08-05-20, 03:37 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by BoraxKid
Well actually, power on the bike is a direct function of cadence and gearing; which is why I suggested using cadence as a proxy for power before investing the money into a power meter. Wow, it's like you didn't even read my post at all!

This has to be someone's sock.
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Old 08-05-20, 03:41 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval

This has to be someone's sock.
Very likely.
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Old 08-05-20, 03:50 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by BoraxKid
ok boomer.
I'm a boomer?
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Old 08-05-20, 05:46 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by surak
How do you get power from cadence and gearing without slope, rolling resistance, CdA, air density, wind speed and direction, and draft effect? Am I responding to a real poster or the bot powered by Strava's power estimation algorithm?
Easy: force applied at the pedals times cadence gives you the power output from the rider into the bike. Since OP is new to the sport, this will be an instructive thing to look at, and it's the only factor that OP will have constant control over, aside from perhaps some marginal effects on frontal area presented to the wind. Why are you being so obtuse about this? Perhaps you should lurk more.
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Old 08-05-20, 05:46 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval

This has to be someone's sock.
I am a person. I am not a sock. Jerk.
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Old 08-05-20, 05:53 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by BoraxKid
Easy: force applied at the pedals times cadence gives you the power output from the rider into the bike. Since OP is new to the sport, this will be an instructive thing to look at, and it's the only factor that OP will have constant control over, aside from perhaps some marginal effects on frontal area presented to the wind. Why are you being so obtuse about this? Perhaps you should lurk more.
I'm being obtuse? How do you magically calculate force with just a cadence sensor?

Folks, I think this is the Strava power estimator posting as an elaborate prank. The moment our worst timeline's version of Skynet gained self-awareness. Good thing that instead of terrorizing the human race, it will just go around giving us completely inaccurate power estimates on our rides!
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Old 08-05-20, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BoraxKid
Easy: force applied at the pedals times cadence gives you the power output from the rider into the bike.
Right. And the devices that make accurate measurements of forces in bicycle drivetrains, for the purpose of calculating power, are power meters.
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Old 08-05-20, 06:07 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by surak
I'm being obtuse? How do you magically calculate force with just a cadence sensor?
Bathroom scale pedals, duh. Just don't corner aggressively.
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Old 08-05-20, 08:33 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by surak
I'm being obtuse? How do you magically calculate force with just a cadence sensor?
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Bathroom scale pedals, duh. Just don't corner aggressively.

Buy a couple of dog toys and cut out the "squeakers." Put one squeaker in each shoe. You can estimate the applied force from the sound made by the squeakers when you mash on the pedals. Calibrate with bathroom scales.
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Old 08-05-20, 09:34 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Buy a couple of dog toys and cut out the "squeakers." Put one squeaker in each shoe. You can estimate the applied force from the sound made by the squeakers when you mash on the pedals. Calibrate with bathroom scales.
Many years ago I lived next door to a woman who had toy dogs who barked all ****ing day. Cutting out their squeakers is a good idea but putting them in my shoes would have been messy.
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Old 08-05-20, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RChung
Many years ago I lived next door to a woman who had toy dogs who barked all ****ing day. Cutting out their squeakers is a good idea but putting them in my shoes would have been messy.
Dog toys, not toy dogs. But ... I hear you.
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Old 08-05-20, 09:52 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Buy a couple of dog toys and cut out the "squeakers." Put one squeaker in each shoe. You can estimate the applied force from the sound made by the squeakers when you mash on the pedals. Calibrate with bathroom scales.

I had a bike with a BB creak that kicked in pretty reliably at 150w.
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Old 08-05-20, 10:02 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Dog toys, not toy dogs.
Oh. That's different.

Never mind.
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Old 08-06-20, 03:58 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by BoraxKid
I am a person. I am not a sock. Jerk.
Ah, new word, huh?

You're learning a lot today!
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