Chris516

The lack of a sign, on the back of a load. It was side note regarding the blind spots, when riding behind a rig.
Being hidden by a humongous hood is always a concern. So, I try to make sure, that I am far enough in front of a truck driver, that they can see. Gauging it on either a Kenworth 'convential' tractor(engine is in front of cab), or a Peterbuilt 'cabover'(engine under cab). I stay near the left quarter-panel. Because, The right quarter-panel is where cyclists' will either be expected and/or, demanded they be. By being on the left, it keeps a cyclist from being sandwiched between a vehicle, and the side of the lane. In terms of passing in a corner. Unless the lane is wide enough, I don't let a vehicle pass me in a corner. I feel it is too risky.

kickstart

So basically you're saying you stay out of the recognized "no zones", and don't like being passed just before entering an intersection?
Not sure how you "don't let" someone pass you as a determined person will do so, like it or not.

mr_bill

As far as I can tell, he's taking the lanes - all three of them.
Just like the "professional" operator who says all your lanes are belong to us.

So just how do I keep a truck from right hooking me?

-mr. bill

Chris516

Correct.

I don't let someone pass, where their passing would be on a two-lane road w/o standard-width lanes, and a blind hill, and/or blind curve. The blind curve also applies to a four-lane road.

I will change my lane position. To visually let them know. To not try passing.
One lane, not three. To control all three, I would have to do wide zig-zagging.

You keep a truck(or any other vehicle for that matter) from right-hooking you. By taking the left-tire track or farther. When you are closer to the traffic light/stop sign.

kickstart

The road doesn't "belong" to any individual user to "take", and no true professional would claim that. The law allows usage of the entire right of way to maneuver a vehicle as necessary, if done in a safe manner when others yield.

As with all things related to road usage, obey the law, maintain situational awareness, exercise common sense, practice mutual cooperation, and mitigate the failures of others.

As you're here talking about it, I figure its safe to assume you've already figured that out for yourself?

PatrickGSR94

This is how it looks today. How could anyone possibly think this is safe? Only a matter of time before someone else is killed here.

unterhausen

ya'll are acting like truck drivers don't pass people on bikes like they aren't there. Living in a part of rural Pennsylvania with a batch of people that can't separate their ego from their driving, we have some of the most violent truck drivers anywhere. There is a long history of truck drivers acting like people on bikes are sub-human. If someone is going to pass you like you immediately vanish when their front bumper passes you, then there are going to be fatal right hook accidents. This is actually a serious issue in urban areas. If some moron is driving their truck in the left hand lane, how are you supposed to guess that they are going to turn right? Maybe they are just switching to one of the lanes to the right of them. This person should not be operating a motor vehicle if they can't keep track of where they are on the road.

Chris516

Agreed. The only positive, is that the bike lane is segregated from the road traffic. At the same time, it invites a right-hook.

kickstart

Its a false premise to claim any infrastructure that isn't entirely free risk is a failure as all other options are also burdened by risk.

kickstart

How long have you been aware that trucks swing wide to the left to make right hand turns?

unterhausen

the assumption of a lot of people in this thread seems to be that the cyclist was overtaking. This is not the case, the trucker murdered a rider that the truck driver was overtaking, and should have known they were overtaking. I'm not a mind reader, what kind of moron turns right while overtaking? This is very, very simple. This guy is a murderer.
I think there should be an intelligence test for truckers, the ones I've met are not exactly confidence-inspiring.

There seems to be a pretty big push for automated long haul trucks. This possibly is going to make a bigger talent pool for the short haul guys. I know that short haul truckers are actually a higher class of drivers, but still, bigger pool might mean better drivers.

kickstart

Its a given that there are bad truck drivers, and even good ones can make mistakes just like in any other profession.
Personally, I'm not a rocket scientist, but I have managed to not hit a vehicle, cyclist, or pedestrian in 25 years of professional driving. There are 5 drivers at my terminal that have over 20 years of safe driving, that's no tickets or incidents, on or off duty.
I broke a 10 year streak by bumping a bollard while backing blindside in an underground receiving dock of a high rise building.

scott967

I've had a couple incidents where I was coming up the road the truck was turning into, and he turned so wide he just about came into me. They won't do that with cars -- they wait till the car is out of the way.

scott s.
.

mr_bill

Just wondering if *anyone* else noticed something about 0:25-0:35. If U didn't, look again.

-mr .bill

mr_bill

Fixed that for you. I know your no zones. Did that operator know his no zones?

Whose PRIMARY *FAILURE* was *THIS* collision?

-mr. bill

Hypno Toad

Thanks for posting the video, this is the same video I use all the time talking about bikes and large vehicles. I spent years driving commercial trucks, so I get it, but most people have never been in the cab of a large vehicle, this really brings home the point!

PatrickGSR94

Any infrastructure that violates the rules of normal movement and causes INCREASED risk is a blatant failure. Doesn't matter if it's for bikes, cars, trains, planes, boats, whatever. Requiring some traffic to turn right from the left side of other traffic going straight is a failure. A gross failure of engineering competence.

I doubt you would ever see such ridiculous design even in the Netherlands or Copenhagen.

FBinNY 

+1

A divided roadway with no provision for merge or crossover at intersections is a recipe for disaster. We are all aware of the risks of right hooks, this design increases that significantly by blurring sight lines, and creating right of way confusion.

Consider how this would be handled if all the lanes were MV lanes, as we often see when through lanes are divided from the outer or service lanes. You'd see either signage saying no right from through lane / no left from service road, or traffic lights holding the right lane while the other was green.

This scheme impeded traffic flow for both bicycles and motor vehicles since neither can be assured of any right of way. The actions of both the cyclists and drivers in the video show the problem and confusion the dividers create.

One of the major issues with much of this kind of infrastructure is that it's designed around the assumption that bicycle speeds are low and bicycles are more like pedestrians than motor vehicles. That may be fine for bicyclists who move slowly and have plenty of time to get from point A to B, but it works against experienced cyclists that can move at speeds much closer to the urban speed limits.

Also consider that momentum is a serious issue for cyclists. Having to slow unnecessarily at every intersection greatly increases the energy needed to ride a bicycle, and change a 5 mile flat commute from a fast easy ride to a slow tiring grind, which will quickly discourage those very people infrastructure is supposed to attract.

PatrickGSR94

^^^ Exactly. Also in this particular instance, the cyclists are coming down a hill off of the bridge, which makes cyclist speeds quite unpredictable.

Being a relatively slow rider, I relish whatever speed and momentum I can attain. So if I'm able to get up to 20 or so coming off this bridge, lights are green, you better believe I'm getting in the travel lanes so that I don't have to worry about a potential hook if I were to use the cycle track through that intersection.

kickstart

Obviously the truck driver, It wasn't my intent to make excuses for that particular incident, just offer a reminder of the issue because its possible for one to enter into such a situation without the drivers knowledge as people do sometimes.

kickstart

I have a similar intersection where the right lane ends shortly after the intersection and most of the vehicles turn right. If i'm up to speed I move over to the primary lane. If vehicles at the intersection are cued up I match their speed and basically merge through when obviously safe. if vehicles are stopped for the signal I stop straddling the stop line and when the signal changes I proceed when certain the vehicle waiting to turn is yielding.
Over the years I've only been hooked once at that intersection, when I was fully in the travel lane moving at speed, a driver swept around me and turned right.

One incident, Vs. many incidents on the same road in the 2 mile gap where there's no bike lane. IMO the trade off is still in favor of the bike lane.
Your standard for idiot proofness essentially makes infrastructure on any scale a virtual impossibility, yet the infrastructure you deem a failure is used by the vast majority of cyclists of all skill levels gladly and willingly.

mr_bill

First, this new intersection is a work in progress. The NO TURN ON RED sign has already gone up, but the lights have not been re-timed yet.

As far as I know there will be an exclusive right turn phase and an exclusive straight phase. In my dreams, there's a leading bicycle signal phase.


Pardon me, what's that I hear? People who don't ride through this intersection telling me how TERRIFIC the old "DESIGNS" were and how AWFUL the new configuration is.


This is the intersection as it's been for the years I've been riding through it.

14 serious bicycle/motor vehicle collisions between 2009-2012, and now one death.

Let's look at the old designs, shall we:

1980s-2011 Two lanes inbound with big OL' curb lane:


2012-2014: Three divided lanes with right turn only lane with bicycles allowed to to turn right or straight in the right lane:


2015: Three divided lanes (BTW, is that a right turn only lane, or an unmarked right turn only lane, or a bus stop?) with bicycles encouraged to be in middle thru lane:



Again, 14 serious bicycle/motor vehicle collisions in three years. And now one death.


So, strong evidence that the old designs were fail.

Evidence that the new design is fail? Oh, that's right, there is none.

-mr. bill

Chris516

I have encountered truck drivers like that.

randomgear

Unter, mr bill,
Thank You for your voicea of reason!

The Boston Cyclist's Union put a very simple cheap design together for a protected intersection involving flex posts. The City rejected it.

Even adding a single flex post in line with the others would have cars taking the turn wider and help make both pedestrians and cyclists more visable. In fact, an additional cone appeared on wednesday evening at the edge of the crosswalk, cars and trucks still made the turn with ease but stopped cutting the corner and stayed several feet away from the curb apex.

The City's design misses the point. It's not the lane that needs protection, it's the intersection. Of course, you do need a protected lane to get to the protected intersection, so maybe it's a start.

There is a Boston City Council hearing on Monday about the state of bike infra and building the bike infra masterplan. I think many people, including myself. Will have the chance to vent at the City for not doing nearly enough for far too long.

PatrickGSR94

I have to ask, in all those previous designs above, were all the injured cyclists riding where the sharrows directed them to ride, centered in either the 2nd lane or the RTO except bikes lane? Or were they somewhere else? Going the wrong way? Shoved over in the gutter? Or were some injuries due to things like jumping red lights where it wouldn't matter were in the lane they were located?

Wait, there's going to be a separate straight and right turn signal phase for the combined straight/right turn lane? I can tell you first-hand that will be a failure among motorists, as there will invariably be some waiting to go straight on the RTO phase, with others screaming behind them who want to turn. And vice versa there will be motorists waiting to turn right on the straight through phase, with others behind them pissed off that they can't go straight.

There is a town near here where they installed combo straight/left turn signals on a 4-lane road with no left turn lanes. So the first one or two cars in the left lane at a light might want to go straight, with others behind them wanting to go left, but no one can go at all while the left turn arrow is activated. That leads to dangerous situations of the left-turning motorists cutting across the oncoming lanes to get around the corner, or suddenly moving right and then cutting back left in front of those waiting to go straight.

Separate directional signal phases from a single combined directional lane is a BAD idea.