L.A. cyclist sucked and nearly sideswiped by bus
10-03-17, 06:55 PM
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The bus was in its lane; the cyclist moved left in the shoulder to avoid glass, but not into the bus's lane. However, once the bus caught the cyclist, the turbulence sucked him towards the bus. But by that time the bus was already passing him.
In the OP I wrote the cyclist "somehow isn't hit". But since then I've learned he was grazed by the bus.
But he never went in front of it, nor did he look in danger of going underneath it.
10-03-17, 07:02 PM
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Too bad the original video was pulled.
In the video, the cyclist never looked back before swerving, nor did he apparently have a mirror, so he was riding as if he had the whole road to himself. I.E. without looking for the bus, there was no just letting it pass.
These were the two lead riders in the group, but I presume there was at least a third rider behind carrying the camera, maybe more. Thus, a sudden stop might be even more dangerous.
Riding solo, if I find myself squeezed in with traffic and glass, I'll just stop, let the cars past, then get going again, but that probably wasn't an option.
The other choice is to just run over the glass and hope for the best (and stay alive).
The swerve at the end after the bus passed was to recover from leaning towards the bus while it passed. But, again, without knowing about the traffic around himself, the cyclist was very lucky.
In the video, the cyclist never looked back before swerving, nor did he apparently have a mirror, so he was riding as if he had the whole road to himself. I.E. without looking for the bus, there was no just letting it pass.
These were the two lead riders in the group, but I presume there was at least a third rider behind carrying the camera, maybe more. Thus, a sudden stop might be even more dangerous.
Riding solo, if I find myself squeezed in with traffic and glass, I'll just stop, let the cars past, then get going again, but that probably wasn't an option.
The other choice is to just run over the glass and hope for the best (and stay alive).
The swerve at the end after the bus passed was to recover from leaning towards the bus while it passed. But, again, without knowing about the traffic around himself, the cyclist was very lucky.
10-03-17, 07:56 PM
#28
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cyclists don't get sucked into traffic because of the vacuum behind or near motor vehicles no matter how big. That's a complete myth.
If the cyclist did enter the traffic lane then it was for reasons other than air pressure from passing traffic.
-Tim-
If the cyclist did enter the traffic lane then it was for reasons other than air pressure from passing traffic.
-Tim-
10-04-17, 03:32 PM
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It's no myth. I've experienced it, though not to that degree.
10-04-17, 05:41 PM
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Experimental Data on Forces due to Vehicles Passing
I have felt the effect.
German study (in English) can be found at https://www.ifh.uni-karlsruhe.de/science/aerodyn/bilder_orginale/papers/Paper_Lichtneger_Ruck_final%202.pdf
Very briefly, the force on a 1 square meter board parallel to the direction of movement located 0.5 m (1’ 8”) from the edge of the vehicle and various heights 'Z' above grade as various vehicles pass at 80 km/h (50 mph) is shown. The force is in Newtons; 100 N is about 22 lb.
There is a very strong push away from the motor vehicle when the front passes, then a pull toward the vehicle about 5 feet behind the nose, then a strong pull toward the vehicle when the tail passes peaking at about 5-8 feet behind the tail.
German study (in English) can be found at https://www.ifh.uni-karlsruhe.de/science/aerodyn/bilder_orginale/papers/Paper_Lichtneger_Ruck_final%202.pdf
Very briefly, the force on a 1 square meter board parallel to the direction of movement located 0.5 m (1’ 8”) from the edge of the vehicle and various heights 'Z' above grade as various vehicles pass at 80 km/h (50 mph) is shown. The force is in Newtons; 100 N is about 22 lb.
There is a very strong push away from the motor vehicle when the front passes, then a pull toward the vehicle about 5 feet behind the nose, then a strong pull toward the vehicle when the tail passes peaking at about 5-8 feet behind the tail.
10-06-17, 02:47 PM
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I have felt the effect.
German study (in English) can be found at https://www.ifh.uni-karlsruhe.de/science/aerodyn/bilder_orginale/papers/Paper_Lichtneger_Ruck_final%202.pdf
Very briefly, the force on a 1 square meter board parallel to the direction of movement located 0.5 m (1’ 8”) from the edge of the vehicle and various heights 'Z' above grade as various vehicles pass at 80 km/h (50 mph) is shown. The force is in Newtons; 100 N is about 22 lb.
There is a very strong push away from the motor vehicle when the front passes, then a pull toward the vehicle about 5 feet behind the nose, then a strong pull toward the vehicle when the tail passes peaking at about 5-8 feet behind the tail.
German study (in English) can be found at https://www.ifh.uni-karlsruhe.de/science/aerodyn/bilder_orginale/papers/Paper_Lichtneger_Ruck_final%202.pdf
Very briefly, the force on a 1 square meter board parallel to the direction of movement located 0.5 m (1’ 8”) from the edge of the vehicle and various heights 'Z' above grade as various vehicles pass at 80 km/h (50 mph) is shown. The force is in Newtons; 100 N is about 22 lb.
There is a very strong push away from the motor vehicle when the front passes, then a pull toward the vehicle about 5 feet behind the nose, then a strong pull toward the vehicle when the tail passes peaking at about 5-8 feet behind the tail.
10-07-17, 08:43 PM
#32
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If the left side was grazed, then it could have pushed the arm forward, causing the bars to counter steer into the bus.
03-28-18, 09:10 PM
#33
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Bus Lawsuit Verdict
A much worse outcome than the video:
Bus Manufacturer Hit With $18.7M Verdict Over Cyclist?s Death
I don't put much credence in the palaver of the trial, and the big $ are because victim was a surgeon, but the thing I pay attention to is the hazard of being near big buses.
(Thanks to "bikinginla" for the head's up.)
Bus Manufacturer Hit With $18.7M Verdict Over Cyclist?s Death
I don't put much credence in the palaver of the trial, and the big $ are because victim was a surgeon, but the thing I pay attention to is the hazard of being near big buses.
(Thanks to "bikinginla" for the head's up.)
03-29-18, 03:13 AM
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My thought is this--The reason for the "Three Foot Rile" is that a two-foot-wide bike might need to swerve a foot at the last minute.
This was "Working as Intended."
A rider won't always have time to look back before swerving---And sometimes the obstruction is something which would throw the rider into traffic on his/her side. But ... if the car/truck/bus is three feet a way and the cyclist moves his/her front wheel a foot (Very extreme maneuver) s/he is still two feet from the passing vehicle.
As for the suction .... I have been passed by numerous semis at highway speed. They do Not suck you into their wakes.Crosswinds and wind-shadow can have an effect. The turbulence as they pass and after can have an effect. But if a cyclist moves half a lane ... said cyclist overcorrected Badly.
This was "Working as Intended."
A rider won't always have time to look back before swerving---And sometimes the obstruction is something which would throw the rider into traffic on his/her side. But ... if the car/truck/bus is three feet a way and the cyclist moves his/her front wheel a foot (Very extreme maneuver) s/he is still two feet from the passing vehicle.
As for the suction .... I have been passed by numerous semis at highway speed. They do Not suck you into their wakes.Crosswinds and wind-shadow can have an effect. The turbulence as they pass and after can have an effect. But if a cyclist moves half a lane ... said cyclist overcorrected Badly.
03-29-18, 05:13 AM
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...............As for the suction .... I have been passed by numerous semis at highway speed. They do Not suck you into their wakes.Crosswinds and wind-shadow can have an effect. The turbulence as they pass and after can have an effect. But if a cyclist moves half a lane ... said cyclist overcorrected Badly.
I have NEVER been sucked in either BUT was just shoved big time last week by a dump truck's bow wave traveling 50+mph. It was followed by an 18 wheeler traveling as fast but did not have a bow wave like the dump truck so no push.
03-29-18, 06:01 AM
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If a bike is two feet wide, your version of the three-foot rule would allow for two feet of swerving from the centerline.
03-29-18, 06:02 AM
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That is my personal experience after a couple of long tours where for stretches we had to share the road fairly closely with fast-moving trucks. but I could be wrong.
03-29-18, 06:14 AM
#38
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I call BULL. Buses can't suck anything.
I was in Vietnam and came upon road works with maybe 21 or 22 feet of old pavement and a foot high crushed rock ramp to the right. A couple hundred yards ahead, a tour bus pulled out to pass another tour bus. I was too late getting to the right, so I waved at him to get over. Didn't happen, they squeezed by me at 50+ mph. I hugged the last 6" by the rocks. The wind did nothing, but then me and the bike were 290 lbs. ha
I was in Vietnam and came upon road works with maybe 21 or 22 feet of old pavement and a foot high crushed rock ramp to the right. A couple hundred yards ahead, a tour bus pulled out to pass another tour bus. I was too late getting to the right, so I waved at him to get over. Didn't happen, they squeezed by me at 50+ mph. I hugged the last 6" by the rocks. The wind did nothing, but then me and the bike were 290 lbs. ha
03-29-18, 12:42 PM
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I saw the adjective "sucking" used on numerous occasions in this post. I learned a long time ago from my Aviation instructor (former NTSB board member), that there is no such thing as sucking.
It is called "differential pressure". That may paint a different perspective for some folks.
I came late to the party here so I don't have any comments as to the course of action taken by the rider.
It is called "differential pressure". That may paint a different perspective for some folks.
I came late to the party here so I don't have any comments as to the course of action taken by the rider.
03-29-18, 06:47 PM
#40
☢
I saw the adjective "sucking" used on numerous occasions in this post. I learned a long time ago from my Aviation instructor (former NTSB board member), that there is no such thing as sucking.
It is called "differential pressure". That may paint a different perspective for some folks.
I came late to the party here so I don't have any comments as to the course of action taken by the rider.
It is called "differential pressure". That may paint a different perspective for some folks.
I came late to the party here so I don't have any comments as to the course of action taken by the rider.
03-30-18, 09:33 PM
#41
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For some odd reason, I do not have to swerve to avoid glass when cycling in the travel lane.
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03-31-18, 03:06 AM
#42
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In any case ... this was the "three-foot rule" working as intended. The cyclist had to make an emergency maneuver, while be overtaken by a motor vehicle, and was able to safely execute said maneuver without anyone being injured or anything being damaged.
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