"Dear Carleton"
#2951
Just smang it.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bellingham
Posts: 2,295
Bikes: Felt F1X, Trek 2300 Composite, Dawes Deadeye
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
#2952
Senior Member
d'oh. I didn't remember that these had much lateral play. I'll give that a shot and report back. Thanks! Also @Baby Puke, I hope we have the same experience then. I couldn't get my right foot to pedal straight pain free but maybe better luck with my left.
I dislocated my right knee at 20 years old, rehab on a bike is what led me to road racing to begin with. Post-surgery, my right knee was more a-pronated than my left. Believing the hype of the times, I thought I needed 'float', so I rode 1st gen Time pedals (who remembers those?), and modified the cleat for more outward angle in addition to the above listed hacks. It didn't work, but I didn't know why. I believe now that a pronating my feet encouraged my knees to collapse inward under power. Getting them straight allowed much better knee tracking, and no pain.
It's not just how you have your cleats adjusted, it's also how you pedal. I sort of re-learned to pedal for the track. Try not to drop your heel (Merckx style) on the down stroke, I think this will also encourage knee collapse. Instead, try to keep your foot level the whole time. Locate some footage of Hoy riding slowly and you'll see what I mean. Also, be flexible. Work on your hamstring and ankle flexibility, it will help. Good luck!
#2953
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
More backstory:
I dislocated my right knee at 20 years old, rehab on a bike is what led me to road racing to begin with. Post-surgery, my right knee was more a-pronated than my left. Believing the hype of the times, I thought I needed 'float', so I rode 1st gen Time pedals (who remembers those?), and modified the cleat for more outward angle in addition to the above listed hacks. It didn't work, but I didn't know why. I believe now that a pronating my feet encouraged my knees to collapse inward under power. Getting them straight allowed much better knee tracking, and no pain.
It's not just how you have your cleats adjusted, it's also how you pedal. I sort of re-learned to pedal for the track. Try not to drop your heel (Merckx style) on the down stroke, I think this will also encourage knee collapse. Instead, try to keep your foot level the whole time. Locate some footage of Hoy riding slowly and you'll see what I mean. Also, be flexible. Work on your hamstring and ankle flexibility, it will help. Good luck!
I dislocated my right knee at 20 years old, rehab on a bike is what led me to road racing to begin with. Post-surgery, my right knee was more a-pronated than my left. Believing the hype of the times, I thought I needed 'float', so I rode 1st gen Time pedals (who remembers those?), and modified the cleat for more outward angle in addition to the above listed hacks. It didn't work, but I didn't know why. I believe now that a pronating my feet encouraged my knees to collapse inward under power. Getting them straight allowed much better knee tracking, and no pain.
It's not just how you have your cleats adjusted, it's also how you pedal. I sort of re-learned to pedal for the track. Try not to drop your heel (Merckx style) on the down stroke, I think this will also encourage knee collapse. Instead, try to keep your foot level the whole time. Locate some footage of Hoy riding slowly and you'll see what I mean. Also, be flexible. Work on your hamstring and ankle flexibility, it will help. Good luck!
#2954
Senior Member
BTW, I'm also a convert to wedges (BikeFit - Cleat Wedges) and feel this helps you keep the feet straight and knee tracking well. I've got no science to back this up, but it seems like my standing to seated transition when doing a flying effort is a lot more stable and less dramatic after using these. Previously I would routinely rip my back wheel sideways, frightening whoever was on my wheel in the process. Must have straightened something out.
#2955
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 429
Bikes: S-1 :-D
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It turns out poor ankle flexibility in my right ankle is a legacy of that injury/surgery. I found this out when I got a massage at Masters Nats last year. She was like, "what the hell is up with your ankle?" and showed me how it had nowhere near the mobility of my left one. I've been working on a stretch she showed me where you put your foot flat on the floor 5-6 inches out from the wall (or however much you can manage) and then while keeping heel flat on the floor, push your knee forward until it contacts the wall, then hold for a minute. I'm sure there's other stuff out there (please share!), but this seems to be helping me.
BTW, I'm also a convert to wedges (BikeFit - Cleat Wedges) and feel this helps you keep the feet straight and knee tracking well. I've got no science to back this up, but it seems like my standing to seated transition when doing a flying effort is a lot more stable and less dramatic after using these. Previously I would routinely rip my back wheel sideways, frightening whoever was on my wheel in the process. Must have straightened something out.
BTW, I'm also a convert to wedges (BikeFit - Cleat Wedges) and feel this helps you keep the feet straight and knee tracking well. I've got no science to back this up, but it seems like my standing to seated transition when doing a flying effort is a lot more stable and less dramatic after using these. Previously I would routinely rip my back wheel sideways, frightening whoever was on my wheel in the process. Must have straightened something out.
Collapsing knees, strange pedal strokes and funny feet (etc) can also result from muscle imbalances. Sometimes worth getting a proper biokinetic assessment. My frequently recurring knee ache, worse in my mtb shoes than my road shoes (identical set up) turned out to be due to weak glutes. The mtb shoes were just an extra factor that let my knee collapse inwards, as they were old and no longer giving any support to the foot.
#2956
Senior Member
Collapsing knees, strange pedal strokes and funny feet (etc) can also result from muscle imbalances. Sometimes worth getting a proper biokinetic assessment. My frequently recurring knee ache, worse in my mtb shoes than my road shoes (identical set up) turned out to be due to weak glutes. The mtb shoes were just an extra factor that let my knee collapse inwards, as they were old and no longer giving any support to the foot.
#2957
Lapped 3x
I can't believe that I just read this whole thread through in one shot. I also can't believe how many questions Carleton has fielded. Good on ya mate!
#2959
Lapped 3x
This thread should be made a sticky in both the Track and the SSFG forums, but maybe have it locked in the SSFG forum. Is that even possible? To me it seems like it should be required reading, seeing as how many times you've answered duplicate, triplicate... questions on relatively common topics. It would also be nice if there was a way to prioritize it near the top of searches as this thread is a goldmine of information for the new and not-so-new trackies. Maybe with the search results, have this one locked, and start a "Dear Carleton redux" to deal with the new questions that are almost exclusively track related. At least this way, with the locked one appearing in the searches, you're less likely to get bombarfed with so many questions, forcing people to at least do some research before taking up your valuable time which you have so patiently and generously given to the cycling community.
#2960
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Being off of work makes it not so impressive, but like you, I'm a night owl that gravitates towards fragmented sleep. Not being able to work out intensely means that I'm awake for 18 hours, sleep 4, awake another 10, sleep 4...
This thread should be made a sticky in both the Track and the SSFG forums, but maybe have it locked in the SSFG forum. Is that even possible? To me it seems like it should be required reading, seeing as how many times you've answered duplicate, triplicate... questions on relatively common topics. It would also be nice if there was a way to prioritize it near the top of searches as this thread is a goldmine of information for the new and not-so-new trackies. Maybe with the search results, have this one locked, and start a "Dear Carleton redux" to deal with the new questions that are almost exclusively track related. At least this way, with the locked one appearing in the searches, you're less likely to get bombarfed with so many questions, forcing people to at least do some research before taking up your valuable time which you have so patiently and generously given to the cycling community.
This thread should be made a sticky in both the Track and the SSFG forums, but maybe have it locked in the SSFG forum. Is that even possible? To me it seems like it should be required reading, seeing as how many times you've answered duplicate, triplicate... questions on relatively common topics. It would also be nice if there was a way to prioritize it near the top of searches as this thread is a goldmine of information for the new and not-so-new trackies. Maybe with the search results, have this one locked, and start a "Dear Carleton redux" to deal with the new questions that are almost exclusively track related. At least this way, with the locked one appearing in the searches, you're less likely to get bombarfed with so many questions, forcing people to at least do some research before taking up your valuable time which you have so patiently and generously given to the cycling community.
As far as I know, I don't think it's possible to have a thread open in one forum and locked in another.
I kinda started the "small, random, track-related questions" thread as something similar to this one but I didn't want to be the only person answering.
I don't mind answering questions over again. Sometimes the answers change
#2961
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Riverdale, NY
Posts: 761
Bikes: 2002 Seven Axiom
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Toe Strap suggestions for larger foot?
Wanting to use a strap with zip ties for added safety after I had clipped out in a breakaway last week ( single leg training comes in handy).
In anycase my shoe is a Euro 47 and wide.
Any decent ones out there to use and do they come in all the same length?.
Wanting to use a strap with zip ties for added safety after I had clipped out in a breakaway last week ( single leg training comes in handy).
In anycase my shoe is a Euro 47 and wide.
Any decent ones out there to use and do they come in all the same length?.
#2962
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 740
Bikes: T1, S2, P3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Im a 46 wide and never had issue with 'standard' straps.
Im using whatever came with these
Exustar E-PR107TK Track Pedals from Velodrome Shop
Im using whatever came with these
Exustar E-PR107TK Track Pedals from Velodrome Shop
#2963
Elitist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Toe Strap suggestions for larger foot?
Wanting to use a strap with zip ties for added safety after I had clipped out in a breakaway last week ( single leg training comes in handy).
In anycase my shoe is a Euro 47 and wide.
Any decent ones out there to use and do they come in all the same length?.
Wanting to use a strap with zip ties for added safety after I had clipped out in a breakaway last week ( single leg training comes in handy).
In anycase my shoe is a Euro 47 and wide.
Any decent ones out there to use and do they come in all the same length?.
They all come in the same length.
#2964
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 125
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Another vote for Toshi. They are stiff and inelastic, just like you want them. I would suggest doubling up on zip ties where space allows - I've broken them sprinting, at which point your toe strap becomes an expensive foot bracelet.
I have duck feet and don't have any problem with the length.
I have duck feet and don't have any problem with the length.
#2965
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Dear Carleron,
Wider rims are popular on road bikes recently (HED C2, Archetypes, Pacenti, etc). Are these a worthwhile tool on the track?
Would a narrower rim like a Mavic CXP 22 or Open Pro be any better or worse than the popular wider rim wheels?
Wider rims are popular on road bikes recently (HED C2, Archetypes, Pacenti, etc). Are these a worthwhile tool on the track?
Would a narrower rim like a Mavic CXP 22 or Open Pro be any better or worse than the popular wider rim wheels?
#2967
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#2968
Senior Member
I'd stay away from the Open Pro rim due to personal experience. They aren't the good rim they used to be.
#2969
Lapped 3x
The Open Pro had the good rep that it did because they were made from a harder alloy which wore well with breaking, and came out of the factory very round and true. Made for wheels with even spoke tension that held true over time, and didn't wear as fast as other rims in the brake track. Problem is that they would go "brittle" over time and crack around the eyelets. Stick to more modern offerings.
A wider rim should in theory give better performance on the track by supporting the tire better, but this is really only noticeable at lower pressures, where the tire would squirm on a narrower rim. At high pressures, the tire "locks in" to the rim bed and doesn't squirm. For fast and smooth tracks, a wider rim would give no advantages. A rough and/or shallow track and you might see some performance advantages with a wider rim.
A wider rim should in theory give better performance on the track by supporting the tire better, but this is really only noticeable at lower pressures, where the tire would squirm on a narrower rim. At high pressures, the tire "locks in" to the rim bed and doesn't squirm. For fast and smooth tracks, a wider rim would give no advantages. A rough and/or shallow track and you might see some performance advantages with a wider rim.
#2970
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 740
Bikes: T1, S2, P3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yeah I honestly think there is a lot of 'there needs to be a new trend so people will buy new stuff' with wider tires. I haven't seen any real data, but have read everything from there is a slight drag reduction in cross winds, to a drag increase with wider tires (but a reduction in rolling resistance). I think any rolling resistance reduction is on inperfect surfaces, where super high pressures are slower.
#2971
aka mattio
I've given a lot of thought to wide rims on the track and I can't come up with any conclusions.
Racing in Minnesota, there are a lot of HED wheels in the local peloton. At the track I see Ardennes clinchers, Stinger tubulars, and Jet clinchers. Disc and spoked. People like them quite a bit. Does the wide rim provide benefit? Don't know.
Racing in Minnesota, there are a lot of HED wheels in the local peloton. At the track I see Ardennes clinchers, Stinger tubulars, and Jet clinchers. Disc and spoked. People like them quite a bit. Does the wide rim provide benefit? Don't know.
#2972
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
My own experience with Velocity A23 rims and now Kinlin KC279 rims is that they make cornering at speed feel more stable and provide a slightly better ride. I felt this the most when I went back to an Open Pro rim from the A23s. Now all of that made a difference in crit races for the fast cornering and on the road the wider rims felt better on rougher roads. Neither of those qualities would really make a difference on the track. Later down the track, you should be aiming at a set of tubs for racing anyway. So I would buy a reasonably cheap wheel with a decent fixed/fixed hub so it will last you many years of training and cog changes.
I'd stay away from the Open Pro rim due to personal experience. They aren't the good rim they used to be.
I'd stay away from the Open Pro rim due to personal experience. They aren't the good rim they used to be.
Thank you for all that!
I was running HED C2's on the road. But sold them unnecessarily.
I guess now I'll either choose a 32/32 3x to Deep V's, which I may have in storage still, or a 28/24 to Kinlin XR270's.
#2973
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I've given a lot of thought to wide rims on the track and I can't come up with any conclusions.
Racing in Minnesota, there are a lot of HED wheels in the local peloton. At the track I see Ardennes clinchers, Stinger tubulars, and Jet clinchers. Disc and spoked. People like them quite a bit. Does the wide rim provide benefit? Don't know.
Racing in Minnesota, there are a lot of HED wheels in the local peloton. At the track I see Ardennes clinchers, Stinger tubulars, and Jet clinchers. Disc and spoked. People like them quite a bit. Does the wide rim provide benefit? Don't know.
At my level, if it does provide benefit i wouldn't gain from it anyway. Just bummed I had to sit this season out more than anything else.