EpicSchwinn

d'oh. I didn't remember that these had much lateral play. I'll give that a shot and report back. Thanks! Also @Baby Puke, I hope we have the same experience then. I couldn't get my right foot to pedal straight pain free but maybe better luck with my left.

Baby Puke

More backstory:
I dislocated my right knee at 20 years old, rehab on a bike is what led me to road racing to begin with. Post-surgery, my right knee was more a-pronated than my left. Believing the hype of the times, I thought I needed 'float', so I rode 1st gen Time pedals (who remembers those?), and modified the cleat for more outward angle in addition to the above listed hacks. It didn't work, but I didn't know why. I believe now that a pronating my feet encouraged my knees to collapse inward under power. Getting them straight allowed much better knee tracking, and no pain.

It's not just how you have your cleats adjusted, it's also how you pedal. I sort of re-learned to pedal for the track. Try not to drop your heel (Merckx style) on the down stroke, I think this will also encourage knee collapse. Instead, try to keep your foot level the whole time. Locate some footage of Hoy riding slowly and you'll see what I mean. Also, be flexible. Work on your hamstring and ankle flexibility, it will help. Good luck!

Jaytron

Speaking of which, Carleton or Dave, do you have any good ankle mobility drills?

Baby Puke

It turns out poor ankle flexibility in my right ankle is a legacy of that injury/surgery. I found this out when I got a massage at Masters Nats last year. She was like, "what the hell is up with your ankle?" and showed me how it had nowhere near the mobility of my left one. I've been working on a stretch she showed me where you put your foot flat on the floor 5-6 inches out from the wall (or however much you can manage) and then while keeping heel flat on the floor, push your knee forward until it contacts the wall, then hold for a minute. I'm sure there's other stuff out there (please share!), but this seems to be helping me.

BTW, I'm also a convert to wedges (BikeFit - Cleat Wedges) and feel this helps you keep the feet straight and knee tracking well. I've got no science to back this up, but it seems like my standing to seated transition when doing a flying effort is a lot more stable and less dramatic after using these. Previously I would routinely rip my back wheel sideways, frightening whoever was on my wheel in the process. Must have straightened something out.

Velocirapture

Collapsing knees, strange pedal strokes and funny feet (etc) can also result from muscle imbalances. Sometimes worth getting a proper biokinetic assessment. My frequently recurring knee ache, worse in my mtb shoes than my road shoes (identical set up) turned out to be due to weak glutes. The mtb shoes were just an extra factor that let my knee collapse inwards, as they were old and no longer giving any support to the foot.

Baby Puke

Agree completely. Get yourself looked at by someone knowledgeable, be flexible AND strong. Extreme measures with equipment adjustments may be a sign something is off.

taras0000

I can't believe that I just read this whole thread through in one shot. I also can't believe how many questions Carleton has fielded. Good on ya mate!

carleton

Thanks!

You read 100 pages of me answering questions?! I'm also impressed!

taras0000

Being off of work makes it not so impressive, but like you, I'm a night owl that gravitates towards fragmented sleep. Not being able to work out intensely means that I'm awake for 18 hours, sleep 4, awake another 10, sleep 4...

This thread should be made a sticky in both the Track and the SSFG forums, but maybe have it locked in the SSFG forum. Is that even possible? To me it seems like it should be required reading, seeing as how many times you've answered duplicate, triplicate... questions on relatively common topics. It would also be nice if there was a way to prioritize it near the top of searches as this thread is a goldmine of information for the new and not-so-new trackies. Maybe with the search results, have this one locked, and start a "Dear Carleton redux" to deal with the new questions that are almost exclusively track related. At least this way, with the locked one appearing in the searches, you're less likely to get bombarfed with so many questions, forcing people to at least do some research before taking up your valuable time which you have so patiently and generously given to the cycling community.

carleton

Thanks, man.

As far as I know, I don't think it's possible to have a thread open in one forum and locked in another.

I kinda started the "small, random, track-related questions" thread as something similar to this one but I didn't want to be the only person answering.

I don't mind answering questions over again. Sometimes the answers change

Not the Slowest

Toe Strap suggestions for larger foot?
Wanting to use a strap with zip ties for added safety after I had clipped out in a breakaway last week ( single leg training comes in handy).

In anycase my shoe is a Euro 47 and wide.

Any decent ones out there to use and do they come in all the same length?.

gtrob

Im a 46 wide and never had issue with 'standard' straps.

Im using whatever came with these
Exustar E-PR107TK Track Pedals from Velodrome Shop

carleton

Go for Toshi.

They all come in the same length.

Koogar

Another vote for Toshi. They are stiff and inelastic, just like you want them. I would suggest doubling up on zip ties where space allows - I've broken them sprinting, at which point your toe strap becomes an expensive foot bracelet.

I have duck feet and don't have any problem with the length.

derekfulmer

Dear Carleron,

Wider rims are popular on road bikes recently (HED C2, Archetypes, Pacenti, etc). Are these a worthwhile tool on the track?

Would a narrower rim like a Mavic CXP 22 or Open Pro be any better or worse than the popular wider rim wheels?

carleton

I honestly don't know.

derekfulmer

No worries. I imagine carbon tubulars aren't terribly wide so I don't imagine it would matter too much. Just need something durable and affordable.

brawlo

My own experience with Velocity A23 rims and now Kinlin KC279 rims is that they make cornering at speed feel more stable and provide a slightly better ride. I felt this the most when I went back to an Open Pro rim from the A23s. Now all of that made a difference in crit races for the fast cornering and on the road the wider rims felt better on rougher roads. Neither of those qualities would really make a difference on the track. Later down the track, you should be aiming at a set of tubs for racing anyway. So I would buy a reasonably cheap wheel with a decent fixed/fixed hub so it will last you many years of training and cog changes.

I'd stay away from the Open Pro rim due to personal experience. They aren't the good rim they used to be.

taras0000

The Open Pro had the good rep that it did because they were made from a harder alloy which wore well with breaking, and came out of the factory very round and true. Made for wheels with even spoke tension that held true over time, and didn't wear as fast as other rims in the brake track. Problem is that they would go "brittle" over time and crack around the eyelets. Stick to more modern offerings.

A wider rim should in theory give better performance on the track by supporting the tire better, but this is really only noticeable at lower pressures, where the tire would squirm on a narrower rim. At high pressures, the tire "locks in" to the rim bed and doesn't squirm. For fast and smooth tracks, a wider rim would give no advantages. A rough and/or shallow track and you might see some performance advantages with a wider rim.

gtrob

Yeah I honestly think there is a lot of 'there needs to be a new trend so people will buy new stuff' with wider tires. I haven't seen any real data, but have read everything from there is a slight drag reduction in cross winds, to a drag increase with wider tires (but a reduction in rolling resistance). I think any rolling resistance reduction is on inperfect surfaces, where super high pressures are slower.

queerpunk

I've given a lot of thought to wide rims on the track and I can't come up with any conclusions.

Racing in Minnesota, there are a lot of HED wheels in the local peloton. At the track I see Ardennes clinchers, Stinger tubulars, and Jet clinchers. Disc and spoked. People like them quite a bit. Does the wide rim provide benefit? Don't know.

derekfulmer

Thank you for all that!

I was running HED C2's on the road. But sold them unnecessarily.

I guess now I'll either choose a 32/32 3x to Deep V's, which I may have in storage still, or a 28/24 to Kinlin XR270's.

derekfulmer

At my level, if it does provide benefit i wouldn't gain from it anyway. Just bummed I had to sit this season out more than anything else.

Dalai

Aero Myth #27 - aero improvements only help over a certain speed.

If the wider rims are more aero, they will help you no matter what speed you are rolling.

wens

For indoor track use though, wider rims are less rather than more aero.