johngwheeler

I had my first "real" ride on a hardtail MTB this week - on terrain that was frankly way above my ability.

One thing I immediately noticed was that having the saddle set at the same height that I use on my road bike (25-30 degree bend in knee on the downstroke) was *way* too high to allow me confidently navigate obstacles where I needed to stop frequently.

The path I was on was not a bike track, and more suited to trekking on foot due to the number of rocks and tree roots, and being only about 2 feet wide in most places. I found I had to slow down and put one or both feet down when I ended up going too slowly to maintain forward momentum.

On the descents I also felt too far of the ground, and wasn't able to get my feet on the ground when I needed to slow down to regain control.

Is this just a case of biting off too much at my current skill level, or should I lower the saddle to allow me to get both feet almost flat on the ground?

I understand that MTB-ers use dropper seat posts for this purpose on really rough terrain and for descents, to allow body weight to be shifted low and to rear to aid stability.

What would you recommend for a newbie rider?

Thanks!

Kontact 

Nope.

dabac

Depends on the type of riding.
XC MTB generally contains a fair amount of seated riding and will use pretty much the same saddle height as for road bikes.
The more technical the riding becomes, the more out-of-saddle riding it’ll have.
And with that, people tend to prefer lower saddles. Look at BMXes, Trial- and DH bikes for the extreme application of the principle.
An accessory that has gotten real popular over the last years is the ”Dropper Post”.
It’s a telescoping seat post controlled from a lever on the bar.
It gives the rider near-instant access to two saddle heights.
One for efficient seated pedalling, one for easy out-of-saddle work.

HTupolev

It should be wherever it needs to be for what kind of riding you're currently doing,

hence quick-release seatpost clamps or dropper seatposts.

DMC707

I remember my first real ride on actual mountain bike terrain was pretty eye opening too.

Saddle height is the same though

JonathanGennick 

I run my seat lower. On technical terrain, I try to mainly be out of my seat and standing on the pedals. I don't run my seat super low, but I do run it somewhat lower than I would on a road or a gravel bike. If you're dealing with rocks and roots, you should be off the seat and in the attack position. Visit leelikesbikes.com. Read up on some of what he's got over there. It's helpful.

johngwheeler

Thanks for your responses! Sounds like I should have my saddle at nearly the same height as my road bike (or just slightly lower), and learn to ride out of the saddle a lot more.

I should also learn the basics on some easier trails more suited to beginners :-)

johngwheeler

Thanks for the link - looks good!

HerrKaLeun

I have a fatbike and ride over construction sites and beginner MTB trails. but have to go up to 5 miles towards the "off-road". i ended up lowering my saddle by 2cm or so compared to my hybrid bike. It still rides OK on pavement, and gives me some clearance (no dropper post). I did it more to pretend to have a dropper post :-)
works fine, but sure not as good as a dropper post.

I'm 6' tall and have my seat relatively high to begin with, if that matters.

WingSuit

The rougher the terrain, the higher your perceived height off the ground is. Dropper posts are the standard here.

fietsbob

Riding fast, over rough ground , and Accelerating hard, out of the corners , like in Cyclocross, the bike is moving around under you.

and then you might want your seat placed a bit lower.. 10%?

But,yea, big drops , then you spend the big bucks on Dropper seatposts, Your weight is on the Pedals..

Observed Trials bikes have no saddle at all.




....

fietsbob

that was what Simon Burney wrote, it was for Cyclo Cross racing, not dropping off mountains ..

Red Bull had not been made back then.




to bad no one can figure things out for them selves any more..




...

fietsbob

So ? he cannot make up his own mind, and so posted here..

fietsbob

i just ride the thing as is , rough terrain? stand up.

DMC707

No doubt

DMC707

This is what people have been doing since the inception of mountain biking --- early on Joe Breeze did market the "Hite Rite", but other than that, people learned to ride their bikes with the seat where it was because if you had to jack with the seat height 5 times a ride, it would really kill the mood

--- on occasion, people shockingly actually rode fully rigid bikes on truly rough terrain as well

Yes, - the dropper posts of today are very nice, - but not an essential piece of equipment for everyone

RayLee

Completely agree, I think maybe people are misunderstanding... seems like some people think lowering the seat or standing up on the ruff stuff is about the comfort over bumps vs lowering the center of gravity and getting in a better/active position so you can absorb the hits and move the bike around underneath you. Opinions on what steep/technical probably very greatly as well. Just standing up above the seat raises your center of gravity and probably has you knees almost locked as well, especially when you drop your heels for the fun stuff... bent knees are part or all of your suspension.

Obviously it varies but normally I run my saddle about an inch lower on more technical/steepish trails (rigid 29er).... also found certain saddles worked better for moving around on than others. I do run a dropper on my full squishy bike, but even so I use saddles that are easy to move around on... I am standing and sitting constantly on the mountain bike so seat fit isn't as crucial as it is on the other bikes.

bikeme

I'm a XC guy and have mine set at the same height on both bikes. This gives me the most pedaling power. Now, I do have a dropper post that I really like when going down steeper, technical trails. But I did learn how to descend on a full rigid bike with standard fixed post, even the same steep, tech stuff as mentioned earlier--rode it for years. You might learn skills with your post down a bit and raise it to full height as you get better. Or, if you have a quick release on your seat tube, drop your saddle for challenging terrain and then raise the post once you're on flat or climbing again.

Remember this: don't just stand straight up--this puts your CG too high and you're asking to go over the bars! You want to be low, butt off the saddle with your feet level and full weight on the pedals, gripping the bar lightly, aka "the attack position" (look it up on youtube). This lower CG position is your default bike position whether the saddle is raised or lowered. Stay Low, Loose, and Look Ahead (the 3 Ls). Also, you mentioned slowing down over rough terrain. Speed (within reason) is your friend through rough stuff. If you're loose, you can maintain momentum and roll over obstacles easier. Tighten up and slow too much and you'll get tossed around. Your bike's suspension can't do it all on its own. Good luck and stay with it!

Riveting

Here's my experience, YMMV: I was a newbie Mtb'er 12 months ago, but had a great aerobic base from lots of road riding.

Are you wanting to put your foot down because you're going too slow and fear losing your balance and falling over at 2mph? I had that fear at first (And still do now, when there's a steep drop-off to the left/right of the trail. Fear keeps you alive). If so, you just need to practice your ultra-slow speed climbing balance, and REALLY resist the urge to put that foot down at all (aka dab/dabbing). Always keep pedaling, I find the faster the cadence the better, even when your balance get's scary, don't give up. And even if you do fall over in this scenario, it's only at 2mph, just don't fall off the trail into an abyss.

If you're going too slow up hills and stalling because you're running out of steam/power, then do more high intensity interval training. Mtb (at least in the front range hills of CO) is full off short high intensity bursts in the granny gear, and at a snails pace.

Dropper posts (or lowering the seat) won't help with slow-speed uphill dabbing at all. I had a dropper post installed so that I could descend steep technical stuff with my butt way back, and with less fear of going over the bars if the front wheel were to dig in a little too much.

Darth Lefty 

That droppers are not essential, you can learn from seeing that the most basic build on serious bikes does not include one. But that they are preferred, you can learn from seeing that they're on every level above the basic.

Also that MTBR has a brakes forum, a drivetrain forum, and an "other components" forum where three out of four threads are about dropper posts.

Gallo

I would agree that one can ride without a dropper. My first bike was a 1986 GT Backwoods which would be considered a hybrid bike today, It took me on many of the same trails I still ride today. I rode for more than 25 years on a bike without tubeless, without hydraulic disc brakes and without a dropper post. I can still do so, I choose not to.

when I rode with no dropper my seat position was the same as my road bike. Knee at the 3 o'clock position at 90 degrees and at six o clock about 15 degrees

I use my dropper almost as much as my snifters

tech decent all the way down so I can behind the seat

easy descents inch or more down to lower center

climbs normal all the way up

tech climbs a bit down like an inch or less

flats all the way up

single track swooping turns and inch or so down

reserve the right to move it millimeters every now and again just because I can

I could easily ride without one

I do not want to and choose to ride with one.

As a friend often says just before a tech decent "drop em if you got em"

buffalo4life

When the going gets gnarly the seat should be as low as possible. For efficient pedaling the seat should be similar to a road bike. For cruising easy trails an inch below road bike saddle height is about right.

consa

My road bike is lower than a mountain bike

u235

It depends. I do a lot of 10-40 mile XC style riding on my hardtail. If the trail is more like mixed bike/equine/hiking trails with big rocks, short crazy steep rooted hills with very little smooth surface (or even with steps to aid hikers or erosion control) which is what you seem to be describing, I can go a little lower on the seat than normal but I am not sitting much anyway. If it is fireroad, singletrack, "MTB trails" where I can establish some semblance of constant steady and flow I make sure I am at my normal conventional standard height or my knees will remind me something is not right.
I don't do anything youtube worthy and my normal height still allows me to get back low and far enough down hill and it may be my imagination but sitting lower seems to help on obstacles on tough inclines specially when I am wearing out. I don't have a problem with the getting my feet down my normal seat position and I don't think moving the seat just for that is really a long term solution, maybe the bike is too big?

GoMtnBiking

I keep my seat set high. It is better for in the seat climbing up hills, etc. for mountain biking you should be out of the seat a lot anyway and sort of in attack position. Descending you don’t need it low, you can get off and low and behind the seat, but it makes it easier if it is lower.

If you are bouncing around a lot you should be off your seat.