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Help me sort my bowels

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Help me sort my bowels

Old 06-26-18, 01:33 PM
  #51  
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Do they make spandex Depends?
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Old 06-26-18, 06:42 PM
  #52  
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If you haven't already, try eliminating one of the most common GI irritants in adults: Most dairy products.

My near lifelong GI problems were misdiagnosed by doctors for decades. In the early 1990s one even suggested I might have a problem with gluten -- yeah, the gluten thing goes way back, long before it become trendy to blame gluten for everything even in the absence of celiac disease.

Turned out to be lactose intolerance. I quit drinking milk, gave up ice cream, cheese, etc. Problem cleared up immediately. It doesn't take long for the body to respond favorably to eliminating dairy, if it's the problem -- a few days at most, often almost immediately.

Now I can eat some dairy products if I'm careful: a little yogurt, some butter, a little ice cream, cheese, whey protein powder, etc.

Combining greasy, fatty foods with diary is still asking for trouble, so I have to be wary of really rich, authentic pizza, although genuine mozzarella cheese made from buffalo milk doesn't seem to cause me the same indigestion as the fake American stuff made from cow's milk.

Another factor for me was minimizing variables in my first meal of the day. My breakfast is usually the same, every day: coffee, oatmeal with a little yogurt and banana. Occasionally I'll add a smoothie made from frozen fruit blends, fresh bananas, unsweetened yogurt, a little protein powder, and either soy or rice "almond" milk or a little water and ice to get the desired texture. I can drink it or add it to oatmeal, especially if it's a hot morning and I don't want to eat anything hot before riding.

I'll vary a lot more with other meals, but minimizing variety in breakfast seems to help regulate my digestion. Quicker and easier to get started too.
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Old 06-27-18, 06:41 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Small point of information: Imodium (loperamide) is not an anticholinergic, but actually an opioid, which doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier. It is correct, however, that anything which decreases gut motility will potentially increase water absorption by the large bowel.
not to pick nits, but all opiods are anti-choligenics. As are things like benzos and muscle relaxers. People on (true) opiods often become bowel impacted because of this.
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Old 06-27-18, 07:07 AM
  #54  
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I gave a little serious thought to this, and I think you're actually asking how to disrupt a very predictable rhythm for the sake of an occasional deviation from your routine. So, basically, anything you do in this regard has to be balanced against the risk of making your routine less predictable. In other words, you don't really have a bowel "problem", your bowels work fine and predictably, you really have a scheduling issue. If you start taking meds or making dietary changes to "solve" the scheduling problem, you run the risk of creating actual bowel problems that are much worse than the early morning scheduling issue.

Hate to tell you this, but the obviously non-risky solution is the one you rejected in your OP--get up at 4 a.m. on days you want to ride early. I've actually been doing this from time to time (2 hours earlier than I normally get up), and as long as I plan on napping after the ride, it really hasn't been a problem. I definitely get less sleep the night before the ride, but I've done a 168 mile ride after such a night without noticing any effects of sleep deprivation. I find the effort to keep the bike moving fast absolutely counteracts any sense that I am sleepy, and I really don't think it's possible to nod off into micro-sleeps like you can while driving.
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Old 06-27-18, 07:10 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
In other words, you don't really have a bowel "problem", your bowels work fine and predictably, you really have a scheduling issue
If three wet ****s per day is "fine," then we have a very different definition of the word.
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Old 06-27-18, 07:20 AM
  #56  
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Loose bowels due to exercise is more than a problem of routine. Google ‘runners trots.’ Walkers, runners, cyclists can all experience exercise induced bowel movements.
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Old 06-27-18, 07:24 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Wheever View Post

not to pick nits, but all opiods are anti-choligenics. As are things like benzos and muscle relaxers. People on (true) opiods often become bowel impacted because of this.
Thank you for your comment. I have manually disimpacted enough people (and that's not many!) to understand that opioids, including loperamide, act on μ, δ and κ opiate receptors in the gut to cause constipation and have only incidental anticholinergic effects.
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Old 06-27-18, 07:25 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
Loose bowels due to exercise is more than a problem of routine. Google ‘runners trots.’ Walkers, runners, cyclists can all experience exercise induced bowel movements.

Reread the OP--he has 45 minutes a day where his body dumps stuff, then he';s good the rest of the day. It doesn't bother him on days when he starts biking at the regular time.

There are people who would kill for that kind of regularity. And "loose" is a relative term. I don't think he's describing diarrhea.
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Old 06-27-18, 07:27 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
If three wet ****s per day is "fine," then we have a very different definition of the word.

They all occur within 45 minutes, and he's good the other 23:15 off the day. He's really taking one extended dump. And he said "loose" not "wet". There's no uniformity in how people use those terms.
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Old 06-27-18, 07:40 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Reread the OP--he has 45 minutes a day where his body dumps stuff, then he';s good the rest of the day. It doesn't bother him on days when he starts biking at the regular time.

There are people who would kill for that kind of regularity. And "loose" is a relative term. I don't think he's describing diarrhea.
I see what you’re saying in regards to the OP. I suppose that I personalized it to my own situation. I also get up and get “cleaned” out on non-riding days but no matter how early I get up on riding days, I can have the unexpected rush to the cornfield or a restroom. Even if I wait until mid or late morning, the unexpected can happen and he may still be experiencing that phenomenon.
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Old 06-27-18, 08:05 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post


I see what you’re saying in regards to the OP. I suppose that I personalized it to my own situation. I also get up and get “cleaned” out on non-riding days but no matter how early I get up on riding days, I can have the unexpected rush to the cornfield or a restroom. Even if I wait until mid or late morning, the unexpected can happen and he may still be experiencing that phenomenon.

That's definitely a different situation than the OP describes. That must suck.
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Old 06-27-18, 08:42 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
Walkers, runners, cyclists can all experience exercise induced bowel movements.
Happened to me on two different Cycle Oregons. Both times after particularly difficult climbing sections. The first time I barely got my shorts down in time in the Porta-Pottie. Both times I thought I was done but ended going back for two more rounds. I joked to myself that I climbed the **** out of those hills.

Last year, while touring in MT, I had to duck into the woods twice. I was out of sync with my normal morning routine. Happened again during my tour earlier this month. I was riding in a wooded area when I felt things coming on. Knew there was no commercial establishment for maybe 10 miles and that I would soon be back in open farmland with residences scattered around. Since last year I started keeping some TP with me when I tour.
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Old 06-27-18, 09:09 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Since last year I started keeping some TP with me when I tour.
It's part of my standard kit. I recently upped it to half a roll because it's light and why skimp? I've only had to use it once, but when you need it you really need it.

The one time I had to use it was on a long walk. I live in a rural area so it's corn/soy/wheat all around, and that's where I walk and ride, so it wasn't hard finding a place. However, trying to make eight or ten squares do the job left me walking home with one hand *waaaaaaay* out to the side. That won't happen again.
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Old 06-27-18, 09:12 AM
  #64  
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I had to waste a bandana during the first incident in MT last year. After that, I pilfered a generous amount from a highway rest stop.
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Old 06-27-18, 10:32 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
They all occur within 45 minutes, and he's good the other 23:15 off the day. He's really taking one extended dump. And he said "loose" not "wet". There's no uniformity in how people use those terms.
We have a very different definition of the word.
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Old 06-27-18, 12:13 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
We have a very different definition of the word.

I'm sure there must be someone on the planet somewhere who was wondering how our poop-frequency preferences contrasted.
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Old 06-27-18, 01:49 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Wheever View Post

not to pick nits, but all opiods are anti-choligenics. As are things like benzos and muscle relaxers. People on (true) opiods often become bowel impacted because of this.
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Thank you for your comment. I have manually disimpacted enough people (and that's not many!) to understand that opioids, including loperamide, act on μ, δ and κ opiate receptors in the gut to cause constipation and have only incidental anticholinergic effects.
/digression-on

Anticholinergics block acetylcholine and can hinder some autonomic nervous systems, but not all drugs with anticholinergic properties cause problems with digestion and peristalsis. Many drugs have some anticholinergic properties but that isn't the primary purpose of those drugs: older and obsolete antihistamines (chlorpheneramine, diphenhydramine, many others), tricyclic antidepressants, decongestant substitutes, cough suppressants, the psychiatric/addiction med bupropion, many others.

For years as my mom's caregiver I had to screen all her meds carefully, prescription and OTC. She was hypersensitive to anticholinergics and became increasingly easily confused and disoriented. A single dose of a popular multi-symptom nighttime cough/cold remedy caused her to hallucinate for more than a day -- those OTC drugs typically contain two, three or more anticholinergics, mostly obsolete stuff that should have been taken off the market decades ago but is popular in cheap multi-symptom remedies because the ingredients are cheap and nasty.

I even had to carefully screen her prescriptions because her multiple specialists -- ortho, neurology, pain management, etc. -- didn't carefully read her chart even though they were all in the same health care network and had access to her records. One neurologist prescribed an inappropriate powerful anticholinergic -- benztropine/Cogentin -- for her essential tremors. Completely the wrong medication for her condition, which the neurologist should have known if he'd read her history. She had essential tremors, not Parkinson's. But mom's primary, a nurse practitioner, made the mistake of referring to the tremors as "Parkinsonism". Mom's older half-brother developed Parkinson's in his 80s and mom was convinced she had it too, simply because of a mistake in terminology by her NP. So when she saw her new neurologist she declared that she had Parkinson's and without carefully screening her the new neuro doc prescribed an inappropriate med. From a single dose of benztropine, mom suffered hallucinations for almost 3 days and never fully recovered. Her dementia worsened rapidly and eventually she could no longer live at home even with a 24/7 caregiver -- she was inclined to wander off in the middle of the night and be unable to figure out how to get back inside, or during the hottest part of a summer day and risk heat exhaustion.

But mom never had any reaction to loperamide for diarrhea. As MoAlpha noted, loperamide has pretty much only one medical use so while it's technically an anticholinergic, it doesn't appear to significantly carry the same risks associated with other anticholinergic drugs -- notably disorientation, confusion and dementia particularly in older people.

Yeah, I tend to obsess a bit about drugs with anticholinergic properties. But they aren't all the same. Now that I'm 60 I pay much closer attention to any meds I take, OTC or prescription. But my primary side effect reaction is headaches -- if there's even a small risk of headaches with any med, that's what I'll get.

/digression-off
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Old 06-27-18, 01:57 PM
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Incidentally, some bouts of sudden urge to poop may -- with some folks, not all -- be due to some ingredients in common sports snacks and drinks. Some folks report stomach upset, gas and diarrhea or constipation from sugar alcohols -- mannitol is the most common but there are others. Some sugar alcohols are used as artificial sweeteners, and offer some energy boosting benefits over sugar and carbs.

So check the ingredients carefully on your electrolyte drinks and mixes, and energy bars and gels.

I haven't experienced that particular problem, but do need to be careful about some protein supplements. Most bean based proteins give me ferocious gas, but I seem to be okay with pea and whey proteins. So I read the ingredients very carefully on energy bars.
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Old 06-28-18, 09:05 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Incidentally, some bouts of sudden urge to poop may -- with some folks, not all -- be due to some ingredients in common sports snacks and drinks. Some folks report stomach upset, gas and diarrhea or constipation from sugar alcohols -- mannitol is the most common but there are others. Some sugar alcohols are used as artificial sweeteners, and offer some energy boosting benefits over sugar and carbs.
So check the ingredients carefully on your electrolyte drinks and mixes, and energy bars and gels.
.

Since mannitol is often used as a laxative, it's definitely something to be restricted if not avoided entirely before a long ride.

I generally avoid sports drinks and snacks because I think they're all marketing gimmickry, but can you give some examples of ones that contain mannitol?

Avoid sugar-free hard candy, BTW. It's usually one of the main ingredients, and a lot of people have gotten really bad cases of the runs from popping a bunch of those.
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Old 06-28-18, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Since mannitol is often used as a laxative, it's definitely something to be restricted if not avoided entirely before a long ride.

I generally avoid sports drinks and snacks because I think they're all marketing gimmickry, but can you give some examples of ones that contain mannitol?

Avoid sugar-free hard candy, BTW. It's usually one of the main ingredients, and a lot of people have gotten really bad cases of the runs from popping a bunch of those.
I've experienced no problems with sugar alcohols, maltodextrin or sucralose. They're present in such small amounts in electrolyte drinks and energy snacks that I doubt most folks are affected or we'd have heard internet conspiracy theories long ago. For most folks it's just a fuel when we're cycling or working out hard.

Offhand of my usual batch of electrolyte mixes and energy/protein snacks only one,"thinkThin" bars, contain maltitol, whey and soy protein isolates. I prefer these over any other bar I've tried. They're inexpensive, the flavor and texture aren't bad for a 20g protein bar, and they're easy to chew. A year or so ago I had a molar cap pulled off by a ridiculously hard and sticky energy bar by another brand (I think it was Larabar, but I've tried so many). The coarse crunchy and hard stuff in another brand cracked another molar. The thinkThin bars combine a reasonable texture without being hard as bricks and pebbles, or soggy or sticky as superglue.

No digestive issues with the maltitol, but, again, it's probably present in a very small amount and I eat only one or two a day when I'm doing workouts that might make protein supplements useful. I don't eat high protein energy bars, or use protein supplements, every day or even every workout unless I'm really crunching some muscle. For example one indoor trainer workout this weeks emphasized mashing in a high gear for almost an hour, trying to mimic long hill climbs -- my nemesis. I used protein supplements after that workout. For most indoor spins I just eat normally.

Right now I have two sports drink electrolyte mixes at home -- DripDrop and Propel. Neither lists sugar alcohols. I've used other sports drink mixes and recall that one did have a sugar alcohol, but I didn't experience any digestive issues.
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Old 06-30-18, 01:23 PM
  #71  
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Runners trots I have had them all my running life of 40 years running. On the bike it can happen but much rarer than running. Find a cornfield, bushes, or whatever because " any port in a storm."
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Old 06-30-18, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
Runners trots I have had them all my running life of 40 years running. On the bike it can happen but much rarer than running. Find a cornfield, bushes, or whatever because " any port in a storm."
Yep, luckily, I live in the corn belt so I have nature’s facilities a good deal of the summer.
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Old 07-03-18, 09:16 AM
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I'm a gastroenterologist. Most of the serious comments above are pretty accurate.

I get the trots due to anxiety associated with riding. There are all sorts of strategies to combat that. Waking up early and having your motivational coffee works. Imodium works. One tab is fine. For people sensitive to it, the liquid lets you titrate it.

You have to experiment to see how your blood-deprived gut handles input during the ride. I don't like Gatorade or PowerAde. I do better with water and cookies. YMMV.

The response to fiber supplements are inconsistent. You just have to see if they work.

Anticholinergics of any kind are a bad idea at our ages.

The antidiarrheals stay within the gut unless you take massive doses of them, in which case you can get a buzz from them. I've only seen someone do that once.

Having a small packet of hygienic towelettes and a small tube of pramoxine can work wonders on long rides.
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Old 07-03-18, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
I'm a gastroenterologist. Most of the serious comments above are pretty accurate.

I get the trots due to anxiety associated with riding. There are all sorts of strategies to combat that. Waking up early and having your motivational coffee works. Imodium works. One tab is fine. For people sensitive to it, the liquid lets you titrate it.

You have to experiment to see how your blood-deprived gut handles input during the ride. I don't like Gatorade or PowerAde. I do better with water and cookies. YMMV.

The response to fiber supplements are inconsistent. You just have to see if they work.

Anticholinergics of any kind are a bad idea at our ages.

The antidiarrheals stay within the gut unless you take massive doses of them, in which case you can get a buzz from them. I've only seen someone do that once.

Having a small packet of hygienic towelettes and a small tube of pramoxine can work wonders on long rides.
Glad you weighed in on this, I was wondering if you were going to comment about the FodMap approach to dealing with these issues. I have had some intermittent gut issues that resolve and come back. My GP suggested I try the FodMap approach. I showed it to my wife and she was not enthusiastic. I am off the the gastro guy to see what he says even though most of my symptoms have resolved after three months of unpleasantness that definitely affected how and when I did rides.
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Old 07-03-18, 09:51 AM
  #75  
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FODMAPS is a great idea. It gets to be a challenge when someone is on, say, Whole30 and FODMAPS. It can be done, but it gets really restrictive. Garlic roasted cauliflower steaks covered in onions tastes wonderful, but if you're FODMAPS sensitive it could be a death sentence
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