Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Sram etap vs red 22

Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Sram etap vs red 22

Old 01-18-19, 03:24 AM
  #1  
GrizzlyPeaks
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 32

Bikes: 2015 Felt z85 Aluminum frame carbon fork full 11 speed 105 + 2015 Carbon Fuji sst 2.0 full Ultegra, Reynolds assault Ltd wheels and 3t AeroNova Bars

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sram etap vs red 22

Hey guys just want some opinions from sram etap riders. Iím considering upgraded from Ultegra 6800 to Sram Etap or red 22. Obviously both would be an upgrade as one is electronic and the other is significantly lighter(and much better looking imo). Just kinda torn between which is better. Is electronic shifting soo much better thatís itís worth the weight penalty over regular Red 22 ?

Thanks ahead of time!

Last edited by GrizzlyPeaks; 01-18-19 at 03:28 AM.
GrizzlyPeaks is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 03:39 AM
  #2  
Ald1 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 235

Bikes: Domane SLR 9 Fuji Gran Fondo 2.3 1978 Mercian

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
I have no experience with Ultraglide but when I built my Domane 9 I choose Etap and love it. What is the weight penalty anyway? The electronic is fast and accurate. You can also double shift with one action (hold left/right down release one side a hair ahead so front shifts and the back up/or down. You can hold and run the grears up/down. I do have another bike with Shamino 105 and index shifting works well too. As a returning "old fart", after decades of a lay off who used friction downtube shifting, the advances in bike tech, to me, are remakable.
Ald1 is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 05:47 AM
  #3  
GrizzlyPeaks
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 32

Bikes: 2015 Felt z85 Aluminum frame carbon fork full 11 speed 105 + 2015 Carbon Fuji sst 2.0 full Ultegra, Reynolds assault Ltd wheels and 3t AeroNova Bars

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ald1 View Post
I have no experience with Ultraglide but when I built my Domane 9 I choose Etap and love it. What is the weight penalty anyway? The electronic is fast and accurate. You can also double shift with one action (hold left/right down release one side a hair ahead so front shifts and the back up/or down. You can hold and run the grears up/down. I do have another bike with Shamino 105 and index shifting works well too. As a returning "old fart", after decades of a lay off who used friction downtube shifting, the advances in bike tech, to me, are remakable.
nothing to crazy but 6.6oz or 192g. And obviously ones about 2x as much(on the second hand market)
GrizzlyPeaks is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 07:51 AM
  #4  
Bob Ross
your god hates me
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,861

Bikes: 2018 Cannondale CAADX 105 SE, 2016 Richard Sachs, 2010 Carl Strong, 2006 Cannondale Synapse

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 434 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
I would either switch to eTap for the advantages of electronic shifting, or stick with your Ultegra 6800, because imho Red 22 doesn't offer significant advantages over 6800 and yet does require a different shifting paradigm. No point in putting your brain and muscle-memory through that just to save a few ounces.
Bob Ross is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 10:18 AM
  #5  
GlennR
Formerly oldnslow2
 
GlennR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 5,414

Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 52 Posts
Shimano / Sram is a personal preference.

I've been riding Sram for 9 years and have ridden Shimano find the shifting odd and clumsy (I have using the brake levers for shifting).

My 2015 Trek Emonda was built with Red 22 since eTap was not available. In 2016 I was able to purchase a "promo" eTap mini groupset. Between the cost of eTap and what I was able to sell my 1 year old Red 22 parts, the upgrade only cost me $600.

So... if you're doing it just for the weight saving, don't do it. If you're doing it because you're "Sram curious" do it. Etap is great and I feel its well worth the added cost. But Red 22 is also awesome.

BTW, Sram will soon be releasing eTap 12 speed.. so wait. That will make it well worth it.
GlennR is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 10:24 AM
  #6  
balut bandit
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by GrizzlyPeaks View Post
nothing to crazy but 6.6oz or 192g.
Today's lesson:

"Significantly lighter" is significantly subjective.
balut bandit is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 10:39 AM
  #7  
Dean V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,367
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 784 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
I would either switch to eTap for the advantages of electronic shifting, or stick with your Ultegra 6800, because imho Red 22 doesn't offer significant advantages over 6800 and yet does require a different shifting paradigm. No point in putting your brain and muscle-memory through that just to save a few ounces.
I found the transition from Shimano to double tap very easy, No problem or time at all to adapt to the different shifting system.
Dean V is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 11:54 AM
  #8  
GrizzlyPeaks
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 32

Bikes: 2015 Felt z85 Aluminum frame carbon fork full 11 speed 105 + 2015 Carbon Fuji sst 2.0 full Ultegra, Reynolds assault Ltd wheels and 3t AeroNova Bars

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by balut bandit View Post
Today's lesson:

"Significantly lighter" is significantly subjective.
between red and etap yes but what I had more in mind was the weight savings from Ultegra 6800 to red 22. Wasnít too sure which Ald1 originally was referring to.
GrizzlyPeaks is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 12:22 PM
  #9  
joelcool
Senior Member
 
joelcool's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 243

Bikes: Road, Commuter, Mountain, Tandem and a couple others

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
I recently went from a bike with Sram Rival to one with Ultegra 6800. If I were to do it again I would have gone with Red. I rode bikes with Di2 and Etap during my research. I do like the wireless of the Etap system. The electronic shifting is fine, but in my personal opinion not a game changer. I just don't like the idea of having to charge up my bike. I already have to charge my phone, lights and now bike computer, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal to add the bike to the routine, but I do like the idea of simplicity the cables provide. Again, nothing against electronic, it's just me.

I don't like the little half shift I have to do on the 6800, but the system is a work horse and will probably last me a long, long time. For me it's not worth a switch until I have a good reason to do so.
joelcool is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 01:50 PM
  #10  
GlennR
Formerly oldnslow2
 
GlennR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 5,414

Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 52 Posts
Originally Posted by joelcool View Post
I just don't like the idea of having to charge up my bike.
I get over 700 miles on a single charge.
GlennR is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 02:36 PM
  #11  
Tom L
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I've had e tap on my road bike for a year, no issues

have to charge the batteries about once a month , and it only takes an hour total

great system IMO
Tom L is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 07:59 PM
  #12  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 19,083
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7991 Post(s)
Liked 194 Times in 127 Posts
Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
I found the transition from Shimano to double tap very easy, No problem or time at all to adapt to the different shifting system.
Whenever I switch between a SRAM and Shimano bike, I always do the first 300 or so shifts wrong. Takes time to break an old habit. It's not like either one is a better or more obvious way to do it, I just get used to what I'm riding.

I'd say stick with 6800 or go to eTap, but not in between.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 01-19-19, 01:25 AM
  #13  
Dean V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,367
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 784 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Whenever I switch between a SRAM and Shimano bike, I always do the first 300 or so shifts wrong. Takes time to break an old habit. It's not like either one is a better or more obvious way to do it, I just get used to what I'm riding.

I'd say stick with 6800 or go to eTap, but not in between.
It must just depend on the individual.
I had ridden Shimano and Campag for many years and did think I might take a while to get used to double tap.
But as I said, I found it very easy.
Actually swapping to Di2 is what took me the longest to get used to.
Dean V is offline  
Old 01-19-19, 12:15 PM
  #14  
cyclebycle13
Super WW
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY (state)
Posts: 617

Bikes: A really light one and a really heavy one.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I went from red to etap. Go for the etap. I love it. Now have 2 bikes with it. Once it's dialed in it's perfect. So much easier to adjust than fiddling with cables and if you ever switch it from one bike to the other it's just so much easier to move (again, only brake cables).
cyclebycle13 is offline  
Old 01-23-19, 12:30 AM
  #15  
UmneyDurak
RacingBear
 
UmneyDurak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 8,927
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Went with Etap three years ago, and not going back. Have it on my race bike and rain bike. It just works. No need to adjust the cables, or replace them. After riding in the rain shifting is not affected. As for charging. It's not a big deal. Check every few days after a ride. If light is red, pop them out charge and pop back in. I am still on original batteries for shifters. I was a skeptic myself, but after switching to eTap I really like it.
UmneyDurak is online now  
Old 01-23-19, 09:04 AM
  #16  
maartendc
Senior Member
 
maartendc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 753

Bikes: 1989 Cannondale 3.0, 2001 Trek 5200, 2010 BMC SLC01, Minerva MTB Hardtail

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 431 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by GrizzlyPeaks View Post
Hey guys just want some opinions from sram etap riders. I’m considering upgraded from Ultegra 6800 to Sram Etap or red 22. Obviously both would be an upgrade as one is electronic and the other is significantly lighter(and much better looking imo). Just kinda torn between which is better. Is electronic shifting soo much better that’s it’s worth the weight penalty over regular Red 22 ?

Thanks ahead of time!
When I heard of electronic shifting even existing a couple of years ago from my uncle who is like 65, and he told me some of his riding buddies had electronic shifting I said: hahaha, that is ridiculous, who would need that?

I still stand by this stance today. It is just not needed, expensive, just one more thing you have to keep charged. And if it malfunctions, there is no way to "fix" it on the side of the road, as opposed to mechanical shifters.

I am sure the shifting is nice and all, but to me, it is just a solution in search of a problem. Never thought mechanical shifting was bad or cumbersome.

I would go with the Red 22 mechanical if I was you. That is just me though.
maartendc is offline  
Old 01-23-19, 11:32 AM
  #17  
popeye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 1,442

Bikes: S works Tarmac, Felt TK2 track

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by maartendc View Post
When I heard of electronic shifting even existing a couple of years ago from my uncle who is like 65, and he told me some of his riding buddies had electronic shifting I said: hahaha, that is ridiculous, who would need that?

I still stand by this stance today. It is just not needed, expensive, just one more thing you have to keep charged. And if it malfunctions, there is no way to "fix" it on the side of the road, as opposed to mechanical shifters.

I am sure the shifting is nice and all, but to me, it is just a solution in search of a problem. Never thought mechanical shifting was bad or cumbersome.

I would go with the Red 22 mechanical if I was you. That is just me though.
Charging for an hour every 3-6 mo. is worth it for never missing a shift plus all the bells and whistles. This family will never go back. The prices at PBK make it a nobrainer.
popeye is offline  
Old 01-23-19, 03:29 PM
  #18  
scott967
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 1,118

Bikes: 89 Paramount OS 84 Fuji Touring Series III New! 2013 Focus Izalco Ergoride

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
An alternative to Red mechanical might be to go with Force but use a red crankset. You get most of the weight advantage that way.

scott s.
.
scott967 is offline  
Old 01-23-19, 04:20 PM
  #19  
GlennR
Formerly oldnslow2
 
GlennR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 5,414

Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 52 Posts
Also the batteries are interchangeable. So if you forget the check the status lights and the RD battery goes dead, you can use the FD battery and still continue your ride You just have to decided on which chainring you want to stay in.

BTW... I still have the original shifter batteries that come in it from 2016.
GlennR is offline  
Old 01-24-19, 01:58 PM
  #20  
Bob Ross
your god hates me
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,861

Bikes: 2018 Cannondale CAADX 105 SE, 2016 Richard Sachs, 2010 Carl Strong, 2006 Cannondale Synapse

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 434 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
Went with Etap three years ago ...[snip]...I am still on original batteries for shifters.
Originally Posted by oldnslow2 View Post
BTW... I still have the original shifter batteries that come in it from 2016.
This is encouraging, as I've been using eTap for one year and was just beginning to wonder what the symptoms of a shifter battery going dead are. Does anyone even know?
Bob Ross is offline  
Old 01-24-19, 02:03 PM
  #21  
GlennR
Formerly oldnslow2
 
GlennR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 5,414

Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 52 Posts
Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
This is encouraging, as I've been using eTap for one year and was just beginning to wonder what the symptoms of a shifter battery going dead are. Does anyone even know?
https://sram.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ar...ter-batteries-
After each shift a green indicator light on each component turns on. Once battery charge is below 25%, the light turns red. Below 15% the light starts to flash red. Sensors in each part ensure that the components go into sleep mode automatically when you arenít riding to limit battery trickle down. The indicator lights for battery life:

Rear derailleurs:
Green LED: 15-60 hours of ride time remaining
Red LED: 5-15 hours of ride time remaining
Flashing red LED: Less than 5 hours of ride time remaining

Front derailleur:
Green LED: 22-90 hours of ride time remaining
Red LED: 9-22 hours of ride time remaining
Flashing red LED: Less than 9 hours of ride time remaining

Shifters:
Green LED: 6-24 months
Red LED: 1-6 months
Flashing red LED: Up to or less than one month
BTW, when transporting your bike, remove the battery from the FD and RD since they will activate the battery since the car is moving.
GlennR is offline  
Old 01-25-19, 12:29 AM
  #22  
UmneyDurak
RacingBear
 
UmneyDurak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 8,927
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by oldnslow2 View Post
https://sram.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ar...ter-batteries-


BTW, when transporting your bike, remove the battery from the FD and RD since they will activate the battery since the car is moving.
My teammate does this. Personally haven't noticed a difference when driving my bike to races each weekend.
UmneyDurak is online now  
Old 01-25-19, 07:16 AM
  #23  
maartendc
Senior Member
 
maartendc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 753

Bikes: 1989 Cannondale 3.0, 2001 Trek 5200, 2010 BMC SLC01, Minerva MTB Hardtail

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 431 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
I would either switch to eTap for the advantages of electronic shifting, or stick with your Ultegra 6800, because imho Red 22 doesn't offer significant advantages over 6800 and yet does require a different shifting paradigm. No point in putting your brain and muscle-memory through that just to save a few ounces.
That is such a weird piece of advice. I switch regularly between my commuter bike with Shimano downtube shifters, my Trek with Campagnolo shifters, and my BMC with Sram shifters. After riding one bike for 5-6 hours, and switching to another, my brain maybe goes to the wrong shifting position once or twice, before adjusting perfectly fine.

I am sure that you would get used to going from Shimano to SRAM in like 1 day and never notice it after that.
maartendc is offline  
Old 01-25-19, 08:09 AM
  #24  
Bob Ross
your god hates me
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,861

Bikes: 2018 Cannondale CAADX 105 SE, 2016 Richard Sachs, 2010 Carl Strong, 2006 Cannondale Synapse

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 434 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by maartendc View Post
That is such a weird piece of advice. I switch regularly between my commuter bike with Shimano downtube shifters, my Trek with Campagnolo shifters, and my BMC with Sram shifters. After riding one bike for 5-6 hours, and switching to another, my brain maybe goes to the wrong shifting position once or twice, before adjusting perfectly fine.

I am sure that you would get used to going from Shimano to SRAM in like 1 day and never notice it after that.
Actually, my piece of advice is based on precisely the exact situation that you describe: "After riding one bike for 5-6 hours, and switching to another, my brain maybe goes to the wrong shifting position once or twice, before adjusting perfectly fine."
Up until very recently I owned four bikes with four completely different shifting paradigms:
- SRAM eTap (left paddle moves chain to larger cogs, right paddle moves chain to smaller cogs, both paddles simultaneously flips the status of the chainrings)
- Campy Record (large lever behind the brake lever moves chain to larger cogs/chainrings, thumb lever moves chain to smaller cogs/chainrings)
- Shimano Ultegra (the brake lever itself moves chain to larger cogs/chainrings, small(er) lever behind the brake lever moves chain to smaller cogs/chainrings)
- Suntour downtube shifters (pulling lever towards you moves chain to larger cogs/chainrings, pushing lever away from you moves chain to smaller cogs/chainrings)
So yep, every time I grabbed a different bike there was a moment of "mental recalibration" required, and even then there was usually a biffed shift or two during the ride. Great way to build new neural pathways, lousy way to miss the jump in a breakaway.

But why would you want to biff that shift once or twice when there's not necessarily any other advantage to adopting an alternate shifting paradigm?
The OP rides Ultegra (see shifting paradigm #3 , above). The advantages of eTap (shifting paradigm #1 , above) are well-documented and exist irrespective of how the shift is actuated. Moving from Ultegra to eTap would be considered an upgrade, and therefore worth some "mental recalibration" and/or biffed shifts.
Moving from Ultegra to SRAM Red mechanical (shifting paradigm not yet described; feel free to condense Double-Tap™ to some pithy description) offers no demonstrable advantage [sic], it only offers a modest weight savings. Why would you want to bother putting your brain through that for no payback? It's not worth the upgrade.
Bob Ross is offline  
Old 01-25-19, 02:17 PM
  #25  
mw22224444
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by popeye View Post
Charging for an hour every 3-6 mo. is worth it for never missing a shift plus all the bells and whistles. This family will never go back. The prices at PBK make it a nobrainer.

Something about using a coin battery in the shifters sounds like a blast from 1990. And having differentially wearing lithium batteries elsewhere concerns me a bit but can easily be overcome with more frequent charing. My main issue with ETAP is the delay in shifting compared to Di2 which is a far superior product. Let's see how 12-speed ETAP improves on these issues.

I would get ETAP over RED22 if I had complex internal cabling that I didn't want to deal with or wanted to just try something different. Properly tuned mechanical shifting is equally good, and I have used both thoroughly.
mw22224444 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.