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28mm Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless on my Giant TCR - nice!

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28mm Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless on my Giant TCR - nice!

Old 02-28-19, 06:34 AM
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johngwheeler
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28mm Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless on my Giant TCR - nice!

I’ve just fitted some tubeless 28mm Schwalbe Pro One tires to my 2018 Giant TCR (Advanced 1), and I’m very pleased with the results.

I was a bit concerned that the tires wouldn’t fit the frame, but my internet research proved to be correct: the 28mm Schwalbes inflate to just under 30mm @80psi and are about 26mm in height above the rim. This is on the 17mm internal width Giant PR2 rims.

There is about 3-4mm clearance to the fork crown at the front, and a similar distance from the seat tube at the rear. Clearance everywhere else is ample.

The ride quality is *way* better than the stock 25mm Giant Gavira tires. I had a near miss at a junction with those tires on a slightly damp road, when they had very little grip. That relegated the TCR to be a “dry roads only” bike until I found a solution. The Schwalbe Pro Ones apparently need about 60 miles / 100km “run-in” to get maximum grip in the damp, but they feel grippy to me even in the early morning dew-covered roads.

They also roll really well, feel great in the corners, and are really comfortable after the 25mm Giant tires.

I started at 85 psi, but found that to be uncompliant, so reduced to 70-75psi for my 72kg (158lb) weight. Below 65psi, the front wheel squirms a bit when riding out of the saddle, but would be fine if seated. These pressures make for a really comfortable ride that makes me want to use the TCR for commuting.

It isn’t all roses though; getting the tires on the PX2 rims was very easy - I didn’t even need tire levers. However, I couldn’t seat them with my track pump and had to go my LBS to pay for the privilege of them fitting the tires. It took them a while, even with a compressor. One tip they gave me was to do an initial fit of a new tire with an inner tube so that the tire expands to it’s final shape, and then remove the tube, and fit again.

The tire loses a bit more pressure during my normal ride than a 28mm GP4K II with a butyl tube, but I always check my tires before a longer ride, so this isn’t a big issue for me.

Time will tell if the puncture protection and durability of the Schwalbes is good or not, but they’ve given a new lease of life to my Giant TCR and I’m loving it!

Last edited by johngwheeler; 05-19-19 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 02-28-19, 07:31 AM
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Welcome to the wonderful world of slightly larger tubeless tires. It didn't take me long to decide that there'd be no going back.

What sealant are you using? I'm surprised that they're losing more air than your tubed setup.

I haven't been able to get a set of Schwalbes to seat with a track pump and would recommend a flash charger if you don't want to buy a compressor. There are two ways to go about it: a) new pump with the charger built in b) secondary canister that you charge with your existing track pump. I'm doing the latter, a unit from Specialized. It's only okay, if I'm being honest. From what I've seen from tests online, my Spec model doesn't have the greatest volume/sec, so I'd encourage you to look online at some of the alternatives (I think that the Schwalbe canister is supposed to be decent). Getting a secondary canister is the less expensive option of the two.

You'll also continue to refine your technique as you go, so don't get too discouraged by the difficulty of mounting the first few times. The first time I mounted Schwalbes, it was a bear. The last few times have been easy peasy. The thing that helped me the most is utilizing the center channel in the rim bed, both for getting the tire on the rim and for seating the tire. Before attempting to seat, make sure the beads are in the middle, all the way around, and spray the rim bed/tape with slightly soapy water - it'll reduce the friction between the beads and the tape, making it a easier for the beads to pop up in to place.
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Old 02-28-19, 08:10 PM
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I'm using the standard Giant sealant, but I'm sure there are better ones. The pressure loss was about 10psi after leaving the bike in my garage for 5-6 days, and bout 3-4psi after a 30km ride - nothing to worry about.

I'm not sure if my rims have the "center-channel" you mention & which I've seen on some web-sites, and I can see how this would make the job easier.

So far, I only tubless tires on one bike, but provided my rims can be adapted, I'd now consider doing this on all my bikes. Pity I still have a large stock of spare inner tubes :-)
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Old 02-28-19, 09:44 PM
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Sweet pics.
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Old 02-28-19, 10:12 PM
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Congrats! Iíve used the schwalbeís as well with great success. Like you, incredibly easy to install but needed compressor to seat. I found them to be great tires and in conjunction with sealant didnít lose much from one day to the next.

ive never gone beyond 25mm but you folks are instilling the itch to try 28ís!
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Old 02-28-19, 10:26 PM
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Isn't it amazing how much the tires affect your ride?
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Old 02-28-19, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I haven't been able to get a set of Schwalbes to seat with a track pump and would recommend a flash charger if you don't want to buy a compressor.
https://www.harborfreight.com/3-gal-...sor-60637.html
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Old 03-01-19, 07:22 AM
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I get that they're inexpensive, but not everyone (including myself) wants to buy one.
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Old 03-01-19, 09:56 AM
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Interesting. Iím running 30mm Pro Ones on carbon RCG36 wheels from November Bicycles. For me the mounting process was difficult, I had to resort to using a tire lever for the last bit. And I was careful to make sure the bead was in the center channel all the way around. But, once mounted I was able to inflate them with my standard floor pump. I didnít do anything special, just pumped them up. I suspect it has to do with how deep the center channel is. If it is deeper it is easier to mount the tire, but then the tire is looser around the rim and needs a bigger blast of air to overcome the initial leakage and seat.
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Old 03-01-19, 10:51 AM
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I also enjoy 28mm tubeless tires and will not go back. Previously I was running 25mm clinchers then 28mm tubeless. The clinchers initially "felt" faster because I was used to riding on them and it felt like I was flying over every imperfection on the road. I wasn't used to the supple ride provided by tubeless. I guess this might be the "dead" feeling that some might be talking about. I still run 25mm clinchers on my secondary bike (because the wheels are not setup for tubeless). It didn't take me long to realize that the tubeless 28's were faster. It's a night and day difference when I switch bikes.
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Old 03-03-19, 06:26 PM
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Thanks for the comments!

Having ridden on the tubeless tires for the last week, I think I may have a problem with seating or the sealant - I seem to be losing more significant pressure than I initially thought. My tires were down by about 25-30psi over the last 3 days (without riding the bike for 2 days), which is clearly too much.

I do have farily rough roads to contend with, and I'm wondering whether going over a big bump (pothole or speed-hump) could cause the tire to "burp" and allow air out from the side?

Should I try increasing pressure to reduce the likelihood of this? I'm currently aiming for 68-70psi front and 75-78psi rear.

Any suggestions for how to determine the cause of the pressure loss?

What's nice is the fact that even at 40psi, I can still ride home without worrying about pinch-flats :-)
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Old 03-06-19, 02:51 PM
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How much sealant are you using per tire and are your tires on tubeless compatible wheels? There should be no reason to loose pressure like that.
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Old 03-06-19, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by johngwheeler View Post
Thanks for the comments!

Having ridden on the tubeless tires for the last week, I think I may have a problem with seating or the sealant - I seem to be losing more significant pressure than I initially thought. My tires were down by about 25-30psi over the last 3 days (without riding the bike for 2 days), which is clearly too much.

I do have farily rough roads to contend with, and I'm wondering whether going over a big bump (pothole or speed-hump) could cause the tire to "burp" and allow air out from the side?

Should I try increasing pressure to reduce the likelihood of this? I'm currently aiming for 68-70psi front and 75-78psi rear.

Any suggestions for how to determine the cause of the pressure loss?

What's nice is the fact that even at 40psi, I can still ride home without worrying about pinch-flats :-)
thatís a lot of pressure to lose so quickly. In all my years with tubeless I average less than 5lbs per day.

you can simply do a soap and water test, grab some suds and roll them around the wheel and see where bubbles come out just like when finding a leak with an inner tube. Sometimes Iíve see the valve cores be a bit loose or bent and when using caps on the valves they get depressed and lose air from the valve stem as well. Check spoke holes and where the valve comes through the rim as well.

good luck!
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Old 03-07-19, 05:38 AM
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Good to know. My 2013 TCR SL1 fit Schwalbe One tubed 28c, measured 31+wide, and yes, tall on a 17c internal rim (Campy Zondas C17s) and I pumped 90psi thru them . That was thru ultegra 6700 rim brakes too.
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Old 03-08-19, 06:11 AM
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To the OP. Have you put the wheel in water to see where it's leaking? I'll bet you have leaks around the spokes and also perhaps the valve stem. I run the same tire on ENV wheels and at first had this. My philosophy is, if you need sealant to stop leaks other than road punctures there is a problem with the wheel rim tape and/or mounting. No leaks first then add sealant. I stopped going to a bike shop after they created a royal mess by pumping more and more sealant to try to mount a tubless tire and eventually gave up.
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Old 03-08-19, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by johngwheeler View Post
Thanks for the comments!

Having ridden on the tubeless tires for the last week, I think I may have a problem with seating or the sealant - I seem to be losing more significant pressure than I initially thought. My tires were down by about 25-30psi over the last 3 days (without riding the bike for 2 days), which is clearly too much.

I do have farily rough roads to contend with, and I'm wondering whether going over a big bump (pothole or speed-hump) could cause the tire to "burp" and allow air out from the side?

Should I try increasing pressure to reduce the likelihood of this? I'm currently aiming for 68-70psi front and 75-78psi rear.

Any suggestions for how to determine the cause of the pressure loss?

What's nice is the fact that even at 40psi, I can still ride home without worrying about pinch-flats :-)
You're not alone.. it's these types of periodic stories that make me think again about whether to go tubeless.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...tex-tubes.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...overnight.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocros...ing-event.html
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Old 03-08-19, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
You're not alone.. it's these types of periodic stories that make me think again about whether to go tubeless.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...tex-tubes.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...overnight.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocros...ing-event.html
There's a definite learning curve and some unlucky people hit combinations that just don't work well together. I wouldn't pass judgement based primarily upon the troubles of novices. At the same time, I wouldn't recommend that you embark upon endeavor with the assumption that it's going to be 100% frustration-free. Learning the tubeless ropes can be a pain in the ass (although it does go smoothly for some, at least) and I wouldn't bother with it unless flats are already a pain in your ass. It's definitely not for everyone.

FWIW, of the threads that you posted, the second one had troubles with really weird tires that had obstructions at the bead that caused leakage (he replaced the tires with another brand/model and the install looks like it went smoothly) and the third one said that he used the minimal amount of sealant and that the sealant had been added at the beginning of summer, six months prior... yeah, sealant doesn't work like that.
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Old 03-08-19, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post


thatís a lot of pressure to lose so quickly. In all my years with tubeless I average less than 5lbs per day.

you can simply do a soap and water test, grab some suds and roll them around the wheel and see where bubbles come out just like when finding a leak with an inner tube. Sometimes Iíve see the valve cores be a bit loose or bent and when using caps on the valves they get depressed and lose air from the valve stem as well. Check spoke holes and where the valve comes through the rim as well.

good luck!
Originally Posted by Ald1 View Post
To the OP. Have you put the wheel in water to see where it's leaking? I'll bet you have leaks around the spokes and also perhaps the valve stem. I run the same tire on ENV wheels and at first had this. My philosophy is, if you need sealant to stop leaks other than road punctures there is a problem with the wheel rim tape and/or mounting. No leaks first then add sealant. I stopped going to a bike shop after they created a royal mess by pumping more and more sealant to try to mount a tubless tire and eventually gave up.
The problems seems to have sorted itself out, and I'm now only losing about 5psi per 24 hour period including my 30km commute. This is acceptable to me.

Maybe I went over a big bump and lost air through the side or even had an unnoticed puncture that sealed itself?

I'm still really happy with the tires - they feel both fast and comfortable, which is the winning combination :-)
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Old 03-09-19, 08:07 AM
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I use tubeless on my MTB bike and cross bike which are great but switched back to clinchers on the road, the hassle with road tubless is just not worth it. Also road tubeless systems are generally heavier and if your confronted with an issue on the road (slashed sidewall, large gash that will not seal it's a real hassle)
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Old 03-09-19, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rick1 View Post
I use tubeless on my MTB bike and cross bike which are great but switched back to clinchers on the road, the hassle with road tubless is just not worth it. Also road tubeless systems are generally heavier and if your confronted with an issue on the road (slashed sidewall, large gash that will not seal it's a real hassle)

Heavier? I thought they were lighter.
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Old 03-09-19, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
Heavier? I thought they were lighter.
It really depends on the tire. Off the top of my headh some tubeless tires are 80g+ heavier than their counterparts, where others, like the Pro One, are minimally heavier (20-ish grams vs GP4KII).
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Old 03-09-19, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
Heavier? I thought they were lighter.
I think TL should net to be a little lighter after tubes are considered. Generally add 30-50 grams though for a TL rim wheelset build vs. regular clincher, and add something for sealant, but then subtract a pair of tubes.
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Old 03-09-19, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
Heavier? I thought they were lighter.
Actually quite a bit heavier, mainly because of the thicker beading to seal the tire to the rim. For example the new Conti 5000 25c tubeless is 300 grams vs the clincher at 215 grams. This of course will vary from different manufactures but that adds quite a bit of rotating weight. Now of course you need a tube for clinchers which adds some weight but it's offset somewhat but having to add sealant to the tubeless version. Also in general tubeless wheelsets are a little heavier due to the fact of the bead lock but that also varies from company to company. Some guys I ride with have had horror shows on the side of the road after slashing a sidewall and trying to fit a tube to get home. The tubeless valve stems are some times impossible to remove without pliers so you can fit a tube among other various issues.
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Old 03-09-19, 12:16 PM
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Any difference in rim weight is essentially moot. Almost all self-respecting wheelsets are tubeless compatible at this point. 1.5oz of sealant is a fraction of what a tube weighs, too.
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Old 03-09-19, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Any difference in rim weight is essentially moot. Almost all self-respecting wheelsets are tubeless compatible at this point. 1.5oz of sealant is a fraction of what a tube weighs, too.
If you compare wheelsets tubeless vs clincher there's more weight difference that you'd expect, Guys spend 2000 on wheelsets to shave a couple of grams off the weight and then add it back on with tubeless.
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