genec

There is poster over in A&S that doesn't seem to believe that you can live car free and raise children.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post12869386

So are there car free families out there with children?

I-Like-To-Bike

You misquote the "poster." The poster stated that few (not none) of the posters on this forum that claim to be voluntarily car free are raising children concurrently in the U.S. There are a few exceptions here, all of whom have adequate public transportation readily available. The posters most verbose about the practicality of living car free with children in the present reality appear to have no personal experience with the subject.

NOTE: Car-light is NOT car free.

genec

I provided a link to the original post... so hardly a misquote. I paraphrased my first statement, and the line in the quote box is directly from you.

Yeah I was only living car lite when my son was born. We had one car. I bike commuted and rode everywhere.

But let's see what the folks here have to say.

I-Like-To-Bike

Living car lite, or one car in the family, or one car driven mostly by the spouse is NOT car free. Though it might be interesting to read how the phrase car light can be paraphrased/twisted into meaning car free on this and other lists.

It might also be interesting for you to pose the same OP question to the posters on the original thread who believe the proposed "Bicycle City" without any established alternative transportation is such a good idea. See how many are voluntarily car free with dependent children living with them.

wahoonc

I know of several families that live car free in cities like Boston or NYC. Most of them do utilize mass transit at some point. There is also a couple that lives in Edmonton that is car free and has a toddler. Again they use mass transit. However by the base definition of not owning a car and having children they all qualify. Sixtyfiver here on the forums lived car free and has two school aged daughters. I don't recall him using mass transit very much at all. He currently owns a car, but from what I last recall it wasn't registered or being used.

Aaron

Roody

We have had at least 50 threads on this topic, and yes there are carfree families here.

I just spent six glorious carfree days with my 12 year old grandson. Unfortunately, he didn't have a bike with him, but we managed to go all over town by bus and on foot. I plan to start a thread on tis soon.
The kid said he had an "awesome time". I did too, but I had to go back to work in order to rest up!

I-Like-To-Bike

The issue raised was whom on this list, (not who knows somebody, somewhere) , is voluntarily car free while raising a family in the U.S? It is the posters on this list, as well as A&S who provide so much advice and chatter on the practicality/efficiency/financial advantage of car free living, but only from the perspective of single men living in/near the city or campus.

I-Like-To-Bike

And that is what you consider raising a child while living car free?
I recently spent 2 glorious carfree weeks in Europe while on vacation. I don't consider such temporary arrangements "living car free"; would anybody who is versed in the English language?

gnarface1

i'd be willing to say it can't be done without bending the rules.

storckm

You can't be car free without bending the rules? It depends on what you mean by the rules. It seems like the only rule, at least in the context of this forum is not owning a car. Living car free wouldn't be incompatible with public transportation, nor with ordering things that are shipped in a car, nor with at least the occasional use of a taxi or rental car. And by that rule, there definitely are car free families with children in this country, including some who use bicycles extensively. Unfortunately, my family isn't one of those.

I-Like-To-Bike

I'm sure there are. Other than Rockmom, do any of them post their opinions and experiences on this list?

CarFreeFam4

Car-free with two children here, ages 3 and 8. We do not have access to reliable public transit either. There is a bus system here, but it is extremely limited, all routes run on once-an-hour loops, do no run after 6 pm and don't run on the weekends at all. We get around by bicycle exclusively, except when we rent a car to go out of town (3-4 times per year). We have been car-free since October 2008.

wahoonc

In that case there are at least 3 on the list that I am aware of.

Aaron

genec

Of course what this request really amounts to is to prove the shortcomings of the US when it comes to trying to live car free and that one also be a participant of this list... not like all of that isn't a somewhat narrow demographic... especially considering that less than 2% of this country typically are regular cyclists.

JusticeZero

Didn't we get into this before? Have teenager and wife. Live in the city BECAUSE WE MADE SURE TO. Don't live on campus.

gerv 

Current status: car-light, no young children, opinionated.

I did spend some time as a young parent without a car, although not in the US. Spent about a year out in the country with not great bus access to the city. However, I worked at sea at the time and the grocery story was about 1 mile away and taxis were available.

In the city, spent various periods with non-running car... up to 3-4 months at a time. This was a lot easier as we were close to school and groceries. Didn't spend a lot of time moving around, as was pretty much broke. Did most of my transportation by foot. But this was the era when shoes could be brought to the Shoe Doctor for repairs. I got my first car when I was 26, so by that time I knew all the walking routes.

It was all doable in varying degrees. What seems to make it most difficult is when your friends, relatives, etc, etc all have cars. The social pressure gets intense, especially from the children themselves.

I-Like-To-Bike

Any opinion on the prospects for success of the proposed South Carolina "Bicycle City" discussed on the A&S site , cited by the OP? https://planetforward.ca/blog/bicycle...outh-carolina/After all he thought for sure the Car free folk on this list would be all over the proposal. It was and is my contention that nobody with concerns for raising a family would voluntarily invest 2¢ let alone $200,000 in a house and depend year round, all weather conditions on bicycle transportation alone to takes care of family needs, employment and schools at the nearest locations at least 10 miles away.

Note that it has no existing nearby amenities or transportation options, nor were any mentioned in the proposal other than a parking lot at the perimeter of the development.

I-Like-To-Bike

Hence my contention that the proposal for the Car Free "Bicycle City" 10 miles from anywhere and with no transportation options other than walking or biking flies in the face of reality, especially for families with children; you disagreed and thought that the Car Free folk with children from this list would be all over this as a grand idea. Still think so? Despite the shortcomings you just acknowledged?

Scheherezade 

Roody

I didn't read the material on Bicyclie City. In general I have no interest in living in an isolated community that's purposely set up to be carfree. I just want to live a normal life in a normal city, but without a car. I think I do a pretty good job of it, actually, although you probably disagree.

I can't find figures about how many carfree families with young children are out there. The Census Bureau says there are 5,959,447 American workers over 16 who have "no vehicle available". Out of those 6 million carfree workers, i would guess that more than three have children in the household. (Although you probably disagree....)

I-Like-To-Bike

Why should I disagree with your lifestyle or your satisfaction with it? I only would find it foolish if and when you extrapolate wide ranging conclusions about the practicality of living without a car from your personal circumstances to others whose circumstances are nothing like yours.

You seem to conflate "no vehicle available" with a voluntarily choice to be car-free, as well as apparently providing some sort of evidence of the practicality of bicycle use for filling the primary transportation needs of family's without access to an available network of transportation options.

Also as already pointed out it is the OP's "paraphrasing" that implied I stated anything about the general population, and twisted it from addressing the posters on this list who appear to be overwhelmingly men without children living with them but who offer so much advice on how families can easily live car-free

I would disagree that the Census Bureau figures of American workers over 16 who have "no vehicle available" are made up solely of people who have the wherewithal to own vehicles but have voluntarily sworn them off to use bicycles instead for whatever reason you might imagine. Perhaps you believe other people wish to emulate those living simply in poverty.

How many of the working families above poverty level who have "no vehicle available" are living in dense urban communities like NYC and have access to excellent (or at least available) alternate public transportation options?

Ekdog

I think most of us agree that living car-free or even car-light is difficult in many parts of the US and other countries, especially for families, so why carry on with this senseless argument? What I find interesting are suggestions for making life without a car easier.

What should be done? Improvements in bike infrastructure? Better mass transit? More compact living arrangements? Or should we just throw up our hands and accept the status quo?

I-Like-To-Bike

I agree that most thinking people, no matter what their car ownership status, recognize the difficulty of living car free with children. BF does have a contingent of zealots and advocates who are unaware or frequently forget this truism when mooning about the good old days, scolding anyone who uses a motor vehicle for a trip that "could be done" by bicycle, or rhapsodize without qualification about a proposed "Bicycle City" housing projects that flies in the face of reality.

Perhaps the OP of this thread will do some thinking and post his findings back on the original A&S thread of a proposed change in status quo (the "Bicycle City" proposal in SC) where some senseless comments and suggestions are being made.

JusticeZero

Your contention was that it was not possible. After having six million people who do it regularly pointed out, you downgraded to it merely being odious. And you used your own prejudices to measure that. You have no case to demonstrate anything beyond "*I*, ILTB, like driving cars around, and I feel that people with families obviously agree with me because I can't imagine anyone thinking differently than I do." However, people have different points of view.
If you want to bliss out over your automobile, feel free. I don't even think anyone minds you making the observation that 'MOST people would rather just throw stuff in a car.' Neither of these are at all debated. It's when you start stereotyping people and being a brickheaded troll that people get irritated. Continually moving the target around to declare victory in spite of having your point shut down is being a troll.

I-Like-To-Bike

THAT was NOT MY contention. That "contention" was the OP of this thread's deliberate distortion (his term - "paraphrase" ) of what I wrote in another thread, in another context. That BIG LIE technique was pointed out in the second post of this thread. But apparently you chose not to read that far. Or choose to ignore what you read in order to continue spinning the OP's fabrication and rant on about stereotypes of YOUR own making.