bfaIllini

Are these (Conti GP 5000) "supple" tires? I've been reading a lot from Rene Herse (Compass tires) and am impressed with the advantages of "supple" tires
Thanks in advance

bfaIllini

Hi Matt- If you don't mind, I have a few questions for you

I have the same Roubaix as you, and run the GP5000 28's with the original wheelsets (Roval Carbon 38 disc)
Do you find any problem with the 32's fitting in the Roubaix forks?
Do you think I'd have any advantage changing from 28 to 32's? (I ride mostly paved roads )
Do you have any thoughts on switching to a very supple casing tire (Rene Herse Compass) would offer any advantage over the Conti GP 5000's?

Thanks very much,
Barry

MattTheHat 

Nope, no problem at all fitting the 32mm tires. I think Specialized says 33mm is the max, and in the back, that's probably accurate. It's pretty tight at the seat tube area, but the fork looks like it could go bigger yet.

I don't think you'd see much difference with 32mm tires on paved roads. This is going to sound weird, but I think I prefer the ride on the 28mm GP5000TL over the 32mm. I'm a big guy, so it should be the opposite. With the 28mm tires I definitely feel the frame flex more, especially in the back, but it's really not objectionable. I noticed more road chatter on the 32mm tires, but that could be down to a bad tire(s) or maybe something like my sealant drying and causing a balance issue, though that seems unlikely. I haven't yet run over anything where I thought "Gee, I should go back to the 32s."

As far as supple tires, I'm not really sure what to tell you. My gut feel based on comparing the 28mm to 32mm GP5000TLs is that more supple tires just aren't as important with the FutureShock. For reference, I run my FutureShock about 2 clicks short of the firmest setting. I'm running the 28mm tires at 72 PSI front, 85 PSI rear.

I will mention that the 32mm version is far, far simpler to mount. I was able to inflate the 32s with a standard floor pump with absolutely no trouble. It sealed immediately. The 28mm tires required the use of a compressor.

CarloM

Is there a technical definition of "supple" you're after, or are you just asking if the Conti 5Ks are supple (i.e. ride smoother, absorb vibrations) when compared with other like tires? I would think it difficult to measure and compare "suppleness" from tire to tire, unlike say rolling resistance, which BRR does (and which Conti 5K, especially TLs score very well).

I will say in my limited experience of riding stock Bontrager tires (Hardcase?), Mavic Yksion USTs, Schwalbe Lugano, and Conti 5K and 5K TL, the Conti's rode smoother than the others. Now it may also not be a fair comparison because when I went to Contis I went at first to 28c (the others were 25c) so it's known that wider tires running at slightly lower pressures will give more comfort. And then when I converted everything to tubeless and started running them 10-15psi lower (now in the mid 60s), that made another big jump in suppleness.

So could the Bonty, Mavic, Schwalbe at 28 and tubeless be as supple as the 5Ks? Maybe. I'm not about to invest $ to find out though because I very much enjoy both the comfort and the speed of the 5K TLs.

Oh - one small amendment. Just remembered the 5K TLs on my ENVE 5.6+S3 bike are 25c, that frame can't accommodate 28c without violating the ISO recommendation for 4mm of clearance on either side of the rear tire at the frame's narrowest point. I did perceive that the 5K TL were considerably smoother riding than the Mavic Yksion UST 25c...but those were set up with inner tubes. So was it the tires or the tubeless conversion, or likely both?

bfaIllini

Matt, thanks very much for your time and valuable insights
I'll stick with what I'm doing based on your recs.
I will drop my inflation pressure. I was running lower until suffered a rear flat and a front blow out on the same ride :-( after which I went up to 85 front and 90 rear, at my 145 pound bodyweight
If you're enjoying your bike half as much as I am, you're very happy!
Take care,
Barry

bfaIllini

Thanks for your insights Carlo
I guess I don't really have a definition of supple
My info on tires comes mostly from reading Rene Herse Compass tire stuff
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2019/...-supple-tires/

I've used 40mm Rene Herse tires on my Jamis Renegade Elite and found it as fast as my prior model Roubaix on slick pavement, and superior on gravel/dirt, etc
Sadly I was dumb enough to sell my Jamis for $ to upgrade my Roubaix, but live and learn :-)

CarloM

All other things being equal, a significantly wider tire like that 40c Rene Herse, which I presume you ran at a fairly low pressure compared to what Conti 5Ks ask for, will feel more supple due to being significantly wider and lower PSI. I'll assume they may have even had those knobby bits on the tread? I'll say this, the smoothest riding tire I own, but it's not the fastest, is the 35c Panaracer GravelKing SK TLC that are mounted on my Trek FX S6. They are wider than my 28c Conti's by a great margin, set up tubeless and inflated to between 45-50PSI depending on what I want to do that day. But for those types of rides (tooling around town, to/from work, going off-the-beaten-path but not full off-road/MTB style riding) I'm not going for speed. I'm going for comfort. And those tires deliver in spades.

IME the Conti 5K TL set up tubeless are among the smoothest rolling in their class and size that I've tried, but they won't compare to something that's well out of their class, like the 35c gravelking SKs or the 40c Rene Herse. They're not meant to be compared TBH. It'd be like comparing a gravel bike to an aero bike.

bfaIllini

Thanks Carlo
Understand and agree
The Compass tires I used were smooth, road tires, actually 38 mm : 700C x 38 Barlow Pass TC extralights. Surprisingly fast based on my Garmin stats.

GreenAnvil

Bought a pair of GP5KTL for an Ultegra 6800 wheelset I had laying around. Impossible to mount, even with levers (and I can mount Mavic Yksion Pros UST on the same rims w/o levers). Just no way.

So I couldn’t try them and ended up returning them.

CarloM

I've found both the 5K and 5K TL hard to mount as well on several wheels. Next time I try, I'm going to use some "pro tips" that I found on the web since I've last mounted them.

• Warm them up first. Whether it's laying them out in the sun, or if it's not a warm sunny day, maybe set an oven to 150F but stop it short, maybe around 100F, and then put the tires in.
• Be sure once you get one side into the wheel well, to ensure that the entire circumference of the bead is in the deepest (center) part of the rim (where there's a little indentation in the center part of the rim tape). This effectively reduces the diameter of the wheel ever so slightly, but could be enough to make the difference from "impossible to mount" to "difficult".
• Exercise patience, work slowly around the circumference, and constantly check to make sure the bead in the rim hasn't slipped off that center-most part.

Failing that...take it into the bike shop.

EDIT

For illustration purposes, I'm referring to the part of the inside of the rim where that red line crosses in the pic above. See how it's ever so slighly deeper? If the first side of the tire that you've gotten in there is entirely in that part, it may be a small enough circumference reduction all around to allow you to more easily get the other side into the well for seating. But you have to be diligent to make sure as you're working your way around the rim, that one side hasn't slipped out. You won't really need to check it until you get to the most difficult part (approx. the last 1/8th of the tire).

GreenAnvil

Oh, I know about the rim's center part. This combo (Ultegra6800/GP5KTL) just won't play nice. There was absolutely no further play for the last part of the tire to stretch over the rim, not even with tire levers. And so I took them back to the shop (with the rims). They apparently knew as they didn't even take my offer to try; they just nodded and allowed me to swap the tires. And I paid like $90 a pop (to help support my LBS)...

But, let's say that Big Clonk the Mechanic, by some insane feat of trickery and strength would have somehow fitted those tires in... do I want to deal with those tires on a side-of-the-road fix where I need to boot the tire or put a tube in (yes, I carry a spare tube and CO2 regardless)? I don't think so. Do I want to go back to the LBS every time I need to do something at home that would require me to pop that bead...? No.

I should be able to mount the tires myself with my bare hands (no levers, like I do the Yksions), or if using levers it should be a reasonable effort... Heck, I've mounted Gator Hardshells (!!!) on those same Ultegra rims, and trust you me, you need every single millimeter of center channel available to work the beads over the rim lip.

I should make clear that in no way I'm dissing the GP5KTLs. I just wasn't able to use them on these particular rims (Ultegra 6800) as I couldn't mount them.

melikebikey35

I actually found them fairly simple to mount...definitely more difficult than the clincher version, but a lot easier than I was expecting. I can mount the clinchers without a lever.

However, I could not get the TL's to stay seated on my wheels (Roval CLX50's), so I decided against using them. They inflate and hold air just fine, but pull away from the rim as soon as they are deflated. My clinchers are back on

garciawork

I am supposd to begetting a set of these from the in laws for Christmas to mount on Shimano tubeless wheelset... not an ultegra 6800 but still... Hope it goes smoother! I will definitely annoy the shop if need be, since sun is rare these days for warming purposes.

FYI, Amazon has these (28mm, TL) for $49.

Broid

So I just got a pair of 5000 TL's and would love to tell you about how they ride, except I've never been able to mount them. Seriously. I was planning on running them with tubes on Schmolke TOL 45's, my go to wheels. I've been riding Vittoria Graphene tires, a couple of different models. But I simply cannot get the Conti's to fit over the rim. I've tried a variety of things, some bead slip, some soapy water, different kinds of levers and heating the tires up in the sun, and they simply will not stretch over the rim on these wheels. Never had this issue with a tire before. NEVER. So I'm done with them, the final straw was a scratch I put in my wheels trying to get these things on. Done and done. So my experience is no experience. Wish they would have worked.

WhyFi

Still no personal experience with these, but two of my club mates have purchased them, neither with previous tubeless experience.

One guy, with Pacenti rims, was able to mount them no problem. Unfortunately, he took a sidewall cut that wouldn't seal (he was using Stan's despite my warnings) and he's running a tube in them now. He likes them, otherwise.

The other guy, with some HED Adrennes +, couldn't get them on to save his life. Again, he's got no prior tubeless experience, so take his lack of results with a grain of salt, but he said that it wasn't a close matter. He's kept the tires to give it a try at a later date, most likely with my help, since I'm the only one in the group that has any significant tubeless experience.

melikebikey35

If your plan was to run them with tubes, why not just get the clincher version?

Broid

I have both clincher and tubeless wheels, wanted the option...not sure what difference it would make on the installation...

Sy Reene

I think you found out what the difference is. TL tires aren't made to be installed on clincher rims. Why not try to install the tires on your TL wheels?

Broid

Not sure that's the difference. If I can't stretch the tire over the rim on one set of wheels, the other set isn't going to get smaller.

Sy Reene

But maybe the clincher version stretches more easily. There is about a 85 gram weight difference between the TL and Clincher versions of the GP5Ks.. could it be in the bead area being stiffer, shaped differently, or more built up?

Broid

Entirely possible, I don't know enough about the differences to know if that would make a difference in mounting...

melikebikey35

I have the clinchers, and tried the tubeless...clinchers are easier. Tubeless tires are designed to be tighter fitting, and have a reinforced/stiffer bead.

And wheels are different, so yes, it could very easily go on one set and not another. I had zero issues mounting the TL's on my wheels (seating was another issue).
It wasn't as easy as the clinchers, but it was far from a struggle.


I still don't understand why you were trying to run them with a tube? Run tubeless on your tubeless wheels, and clinchers on your clincher wheels. Or just run clinchers on both of them.
I don't see any benefit to running tubeless (with tubes) on a non tubeless wheel...

Broid

Thanks, I've done both. My Boyd Altamont Lights are tubeless, my TLO 45's aren't. I currently have Vittoria Corsa 2.0's on my TLO's. They are tubeless ready. I tried them on my Boyd's and had trouble getting them seated, so I went back to Schwalbe Pro One's, they seated without a hitch. The Vittoria's run great with tubes. Thought maybe the Contis would too.

CarloM

I've run the gamut of experience on these tires, and yet I keep buying them because I really like the way they roll!

First attempt to mount 5K TLs on my Bontrager Affinity TLR aluminum wheels (set up tubeless) resulted in the worst sore hands and frustration I've ever had, and using tire levers really scuffed up the wheel (luckily it was aluminum), but I finally got them on.

Second attempt was a different set of 5K TLs on my Bontrager Aeolus Pro 3 Carbon with TL rim strip and had the shop do it, and watched them first hand struggle mightily to put them on.

I just took them off to put them on my Black Incs after maybe 200 miles of usage on my Pro 3. Taking them off the Pro 3 was a task in and of itself but I managed. Washed and scrubbed as much of the sealant off as I could. And then on to mounting, which I feared based on past experiences.

They mounted on my Black Inc Thirties relatively easily. I was shocked. I went to my LBS to borrow their air compressor. They had a devil of time getting them to stay seated. They wouldn't seat with the compressor through the presta valve (not enough PSI was getting through) so they had to take the core off and pump directly into it. Then it would seat. But as soon as they removed the AC it would unseat. Over and over. He basically had to play this game of seat, use thumb to plug the valve, and try to get the core back in before enough air escaped to unseat. This took several attempts. He mentioned that the BIs and TLs tolerances was significantly different than any other wheel he'd mounted those on (he's not the BI dealer I got them from).

Just goes to show the fairly different tolerances between 700c wheels from pretty well known/respected companies.

Joost

I have exactly the same issue. So you’re not alone. I also got them as soon as they went on sale, so maybe it is a first batch problem. Apart from that: amazing tires. But they’re a pain to get on and off my Hunt wheelset.