livedarklions

Well, if you're going to claim this is a proper response to the OP, you should probably have noticed it specifically states that the OP has to do a lot of riding in the streets. Did you really think that you encounter fewer cars mountain biking is something the OP needed to be told? That's like telling someone complaining about getting rained on while commuting that they could stay dry if they stick to the indoor trainer.

All forms of riding have their own set of risks. What's wrong with comparing them?

As an aside, I'm pretty sure I'm safer on the street. My dirt-riding skills are really bad and it just has so little to do with what I love about road biking that I don't have the patience to work on them.

wolfchild

What about commuting, bike packing and touring all of which involve riding on the road at least some of the time ??. Should people give up doing these types of riding just because it involves riding on roads ??...I do both gravel grinding and mountain biking but I am also a commuter.....Oh and mountain biking can be a very dangerous activity, people have been paralyzed, killed and suffered broken bones and all types of injuries while mountain biking.

wolfchild

I think a mirror is a lot more useful than some radar.

eja_ bottecchia

A mirror is definitely cheaper. I am not sure if it is more useful.

Originally I felt the same way as you do.

Now I won’t ride without it.

Whatever works for you, that is what you should do.

RMoudatir

I just remembered reading a couple years ago an article on how these people touring would get these pool noodles, attach them to the rear of the bike and that would make drivers who pass by give more space. Honestly I think losing some watts over being road kill is not such a bad trade off.

FiftySix

I haven't seen that in person, yet. Looks like trouble for passing in between cars in a downtown environment, if the photo half way down the webpage below is an indicator.

https://www.chron.com/travel/resourc...e-13923482.php

wolfchild

A pool noodle makes a cyclist look idiotic and won't prevent a distracted driver from hitting them. If a distracted driver can't even see a car or a red light or a stop sign, do you really think that they're going to notice a pool noodle ??...A pool noodle would also be very impractical when filtering between cars in traffic or when riding on MUPS full of other people...If somebody is really that fearful then maybe it's time for them to give up cycling and find another activity that is safer.

Maelochs

A guy on another site who rides about 12K miles per year recently got radar and he loves it ... obviously he doesn't Need it as he manages to survive and ride a ton, but he likes getting an audible and visual warning of approaching cars. He has it connected to his Garmin so it does some flash frequency thing to alert him to closing speeds.

I am sure I would end up staring at the radar and hit something ahead of me, but this guy like it.

As for pool noodles ... if a driver knows I am there and respects my right to be there, I don't need it. if not, I might as well wrap it around me as padding. Some drivers, I'd bet, would try to hit the pool noodle just to be smart-asses.

If, because of commuting times and lack of alternate routes, you Have to ride a bad stretch of road, stay relaxed. When i was a full-time commuter, for a while I was forced to pick between a few terrible roads at rush hour. That is where I learned to take the lane when I needed to ... I didn't realize until years later that there was a whole religion built around it. I just did it for safety.

Like Jim from near Harvard, I also learned to take the lane and once noticed, give it back when appropriate.

Also ... if you commute on a schedule ... so do the drivers. Likely the same people are passing you every day. Hopefully they will get used to seeing you, and figure out how to cope, just as you will.

RMoudatir

I think it's redundant for city riding but I thought if you are touring or bikepacking on one lane remote highways that this would be a little helpful.

RMoudatir

It's like when I'm in the more crowded dense roads, I feel quite comfortable and don't even think about it much, but when I'm in a situation where I am on a road with one lane that is empty and then see a car speeding past the 40-55 mph speed limit with a big gap behind me and not slow down at all till they're a few yards away, that's when I start freaking out in my mind and flinch each time a car passes by at that speed. It's even worse when sometimes these semi trucks go 50-60 mph right by me, it's like every cell in my body freezes when I turn my head and watch those trucks speed past me only a bike's length away, one wrong move from me or the driver and that's it. It sort of disturbs me to think that I'm only a few feet away from death each time a semi passes by.

RMoudatir

You sound like you must have ice in your veins I envy you for having no fear lol. But to compare the odds of being hit by lightning with being ran over seems way off. A friend of mine was ran over in 2017, an expensive bicycle totaled and today was the first day he got back on a bike after 2 years. I had friends of my friends in accidents. A bunch of people who I follow on social media / YouTube have been in a pretty bad accident at one point, one of them disabled off the bike for a year, one of them killed in the Indipac race that I followed in 2017 which got shut down afterwards. That doesn't mean I'm quitting because of fear but it does make cycling stressful at times.

Rajflyboy

Stop at 7Eleven and get a Slurpee

https://www.7-eleven.com/slurpee

then relax a bit before you get on the road and then go ride and pretend you are Bob Roll riding the Tour De France

shelbyfv

I was recently on a supported ride where someone was using a pool noodle. They looked beyond ridiculous. It's true they weren't ran over but neither were any of the others.

livedarklions

Careful with the calculation by anecdote.
Last year, I had two clients, both of whom had been hit by lightning. One of them had been hit twice, several years apart.

Your chances of getting hit by lightning in your lifetime are 1 in 3000. It's not that rare.

Knowing people who have been hurt doing something colors your subjective sense of the odds, that's likely true for any person. We really can't tell you how to adjust your subjective sense, only how we deal with ours. The real statistics don't show cycling as being a very hazardous activity compared to just about any transport or outdoor recreation, but the fact is that the hazards of bicycling tend to have a very conspicuous presence because they're big, made of metal and very close to you. We're also a lot more aware of our close calls than we would be in other activities. I'm pretty sure I've probably come close to slipping in the shower a lot more times than I am aware of. Not quite as noticeable as having a one ton van closing in on me.

Jim from Boston

Hi @Maelochs,

Thanks for the nod, assuming it's me since since I live about two miles from Harvard ("Hahvud") University, and about 20 miles from Harvard, MA; and thanks for your sagacious post.

I don’t depend on drivers’ familarity with me on my usual commuting routes, though occasionally I get a friendly toot, usually by someone who knows me, though,I did engage in some discussions about those above two safety modalities for rearward protection I recently posted about pool noodles on this thread,

livedarklions

I wouldn't tell someone not to ride with a noodle even though I can think of a multitude of reasons why it wouldn't work for me, but I would tell someone that if they do, they have to have it set up as detachable as it is in that picture. Otherwise, you're just giving some nut a handle to upend your bike from their passenger side window. There aren't a lot of such people on the road, but I've encountered a few over the years. If I'm "reading" that photo correctly, if someone tried that, the noodle would just pull out of the bungee cords.

63rickert

The experiences you report are dreadful. It's your experience and I would not ask you to discount that. If the reported accidents were typical or normal I would stop cycling immediately. Wouldn't sell my bikes, would destroy them.

I have been cycling longer than most here and have racked up a lot of miles. Have witnessed exactly one death by cycling. It was a minor fall with very major consequences. A broken spoke somehow entered my friend's spinal cord between two cervical vertabrae. Total paralysis was immediate and irreversible, death came five years later. The fall was caused by a QR spindle that snapped. The spindle in question is likely the safest wheel retention device ever made and I still use same brand, same era QRs on my own bikes. This accident was a lot less likely than being hit by lightning.

I see a lot of accidents. Way too many. Just riding along and see riders going down. Number one accident seen in recent years is caused by riders simply not paying attention. Get off the phone. If you need to consult the Garmin pull over and stop. Do not mount phone on handlebars. Eyes on the road.

There is no question cycling accidents cause more complex injuries than formerly. I can remember year after year when the only injuries seen or reported within a fairly large regional community of riders would be broken collarbones, broken ribs, concussions, road rash. Injuries more consequential were just rare. I could diagnose why injuries are now more severe than in past, a flame war would follow.

livedarklions

Not to start an argument, just out of curiosity--do you know of any data to support that?

indyfabz

I blame aspolding crabon fibre frame and forks and deli slicer disc brakes.

drewtk

The Garmin Varia radar tail light is the best investment I've made for on road safety, aside from a helmet of course. The radar will notify your bike computer when a vehicle is approaching from the rear and tell you how close they are, including if there are multiple cars behind you. The tail light itself will flash red to signal the upcoming cars, and blink progressively quicker as the car approaches.

Great tech - check it out.

Jim from Boston

Thanks for your reply. That picture is a stock photo. As I posted: Though I have not used one yet. I know you post from New Hampshire, and I take note of your encounters.

I wonder if a pool noodle with a red rear light attached at the end would be more effective at night. The noodle would be hardly visible but the red light would enlarge the cyclist perimeter.

I once tried this device to expand my rearward profile:

63rickert

Why would data exist? I am talking about going back to 60s and 70s when cycling was an activity for children. Adults who cycled were plain weird. We did all know each other. There was a community. If you were part of the community you would know what was happening and would have more to work with than a statistician.

It would have been 1980s and well into 80s before I even heard of a rotator cuff injury or wrist surgery or punctured lungs. Those are all too common now. Just unknown in 60s or 70s. Severe injuries occurred when someone had the misfortune of meeting a truck or a drunk driver and otherwise we didn't much get hurt.

If you rode a bike as an adult, or even an older teen, you were going to meet the old racers. You would be taught. There was no such thing as a power meter. No one trained for wattage. Coaching was free. We trained for style and for form. Knowing what you are doing helps a lot in a tight spot. Being stable and poised on the machine helps a lot. I don't expect anyone to accept any of the above. The current received wisdom is there is simply nothing to know and anything goes.

A more recent example. Two years ago my wife went over the handlebars. You do not ever want to watch a 68 year old lady flying through the air. She was knocked off her bike by another cyclist. This was on the Green Bay Trail, an MUP, perhaps 100 yards north of the Kenilworth Police Station. Should be a safe place to ride. My wife did everything she could to evade the oncoming rider but he just kept closing the door. So she's in the air and we are both thinking broken hip, broken back, our lives just changed. She had just completed rehab on her shoulder surgery and that was presumed out the window. So while she is in the air, panicked, expecting the worst, she composed and arranged her fall. Someone above accused me of ice in my veins. That would be my wife. Zero injury. Colnago fork was slightly out of alignment, front wheel needed a true. But no injury, not a scratch. I see so many crashes where the obvious thought pattern is "It's crash time. Here we go." The consensus on this thread and every other safety thread is injury is inevitable. Accept your fate and don't argue with it. Horse manure. I was taught you can always do something and you had better do everything. Couldn't possibly count all the times both wheels have lost traction or become airborne and I land rubber side down and just continue riding. Close calls?

Jim from Boston

Thanks for your reply, @livedarklions. That picture is a stock photo. As I posted: Though I have not used one yet. I know you post from New Hampshire, and I take note of your encounters.

I wonder if a pool noodle with a red rear light attached at the end would be more effective at night. The noodle would be hardly visible but the red light would enlarge the cyclist perimeter.

I once tried this device to expand my rearward profile:

RMoudatir

First of all you claim that my experiences were exaggerated from perception. I work as a bicycle courier and had so many occurrences in that I had to hit the brakes or swerve out of the way because someone was careless but I wasn't even shook up at all like these couple of occurrences. One of them was from error of me crossing an intersection and almost being T-boned from the right by a Prius at 40 mph. Then the other was me being forced to ride without a shoulder with cars parked all to my right and having a truck make no attempt to move behind me at fast speed on a curved section of the road. It's not the constant traffic that scares me, it's those more isolated empty roads that give vehicles a bigger gap behind me that somehow encourages them to go even faster not even respecting the speed limits at all that really bother me. I don't know if being terrified having a semi truck pass by me 50-60 mph is irrational or if that's a normal reaction.

livedarklions

Yeah, I stupidly responded to that guy above, forgetting for a minute who he is. He actually invented cycling, and if you don't follow his advice to the letter, your legs will fall off.