Do you HAVE to stop??
06-11-13, 04:40 PM
#51
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Funny thing today, I led a club ride this morning and ten of us approached a 4 way stop, with a cop car stopped at the stop sign perpendicular to our right. He waived us on as we were slowing, and I thought for a sec: wow, he could say gotcha and ticket us for going thru a stop sign. Of course he didn't.
I agree with everyone who says a bike is considered a vehicle. If we want to earn the respect of motorists we need to consider ourself as drivers of vehicles when we ride. We all get mad when a motorist does something illegal, particularly something that potentially can harm us, and I am not surprised when a motorist gets mad at us when we break the law. Its a two way street. Here in Philadelphia the city has a campaign called give respect, get respect. Sounds reasonable to me.
I agree with everyone who says a bike is considered a vehicle. If we want to earn the respect of motorists we need to consider ourself as drivers of vehicles when we ride. We all get mad when a motorist does something illegal, particularly something that potentially can harm us, and I am not surprised when a motorist gets mad at us when we break the law. Its a two way street. Here in Philadelphia the city has a campaign called give respect, get respect. Sounds reasonable to me.
06-11-13, 05:30 PM
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Here, a bicycle is a vehicle and is required to stop at stop signs and red lights. Stopping is defined in the vehicle code as a cessation of forward movement. There is no requirement to put a foot down, only to stop.
06-11-13, 05:58 PM
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If there are ANY cars near the stop sign, I'll full stop, foot down. It's more for the cars than me , to avoid any confusion since the cars aren't sure if I'm going to roll through it illegally or not.
If there are no cars, and I've checked carefully to verify, I'll do the slow rollby without stopping unless a cop car is present (they ticket a lot of cyclists in Norcal.)
If there are no cars, and I've checked carefully to verify, I'll do the slow rollby without stopping unless a cop car is present (they ticket a lot of cyclists in Norcal.)
06-11-13, 06:12 PM
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06-11-13, 06:18 PM
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I hate when the motorist wants to be the nice guy and refuses to go even when its their turn thereby destroying my timing. Forcing me to stop when I was going to roll through behind them.
06-11-13, 06:19 PM
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ok, so here's one for you all, what about the traffic lights that are controlled by an optical sensor? near me, it seems that in the daylight hours a cyclist will not trip them and you will be stuck at that red light forever unless a car pulls up opposite you. Is it still illegal to run this light after stopping and checking for traffic?
06-11-13, 06:23 PM
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I don't know about the open road, but nyc bikers do not stop at signs or lights unless they are forced to by traffic. I am yet to see someone confront a biker about it, I'm pretty sure it's quite normal here.
06-11-13, 06:49 PM
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I do the same, with the addition of no pedestrians around approaching a crosswalk. If nobody was there to see it, did it really happen? 
While bicycles follow all the same laws here in CA as cars, in reality this breaks down quickly. For one thing, bicycles are human-powered, so are in a different legal class to begin with. They can be operated on the shoulder for instance, while cars can't, and shoulders aren't subject to normal traffic rules. You can ride in any direction, one-way signs don't apply, don't have to stop for lights or stop signs, etc. You can reenter the roadway at will whenever it's safe to do so. This means you can often just move over 2' to the right and legally roll past a stop sign, then reenter the road a little further down. Often this is extended to bike lanes in 3-way intersections, where the limit (stop) line isn't painted into the bike lane. Bikes can also ride on MUPs, and use crosswalks, paths, and sidewalks that reasonably provide access to it. (Under a presumption of public easement, basically the same reason people have a right to drive cars across sidewalks to and from garages, parking lots, etc.) Then, finally, safety or impossibility is a solid defense against just about all traffic infractions. If you're coming up to a stop sign and plan to turn left you're supposed to signal a stop and a turn while stopping and turning, with the turn signalled throughout the turn. Well, you can't both hand signal a stop and a turn at the same time. It's also dangerous to stop or attempt to start a bicycle with only one hand on the bars. Basically, it's both impossible and unsafe to attempt to comply with many laws, because they wren't made with bicyclists in mind. For instance, the law says a bicyclist can stop and get off at a curb, but what if it's a no stopping zone? With designated bicycle parking on the sidewalk, why can't you ride up to it from the nearest curb cut, like a car can drive across the sidewalk to get into a garage? (Assuming of course proper precaution.) Cars obviously don't get to park on sidewalks. And bicycles can't legally be parked in the street. Which just illustrates the legal differences.
While bicycles follow all the same laws here in CA as cars, in reality this breaks down quickly. For one thing, bicycles are human-powered, so are in a different legal class to begin with. They can be operated on the shoulder for instance, while cars can't, and shoulders aren't subject to normal traffic rules. You can ride in any direction, one-way signs don't apply, don't have to stop for lights or stop signs, etc. You can reenter the roadway at will whenever it's safe to do so. This means you can often just move over 2' to the right and legally roll past a stop sign, then reenter the road a little further down. Often this is extended to bike lanes in 3-way intersections, where the limit (stop) line isn't painted into the bike lane. Bikes can also ride on MUPs, and use crosswalks, paths, and sidewalks that reasonably provide access to it. (Under a presumption of public easement, basically the same reason people have a right to drive cars across sidewalks to and from garages, parking lots, etc.) Then, finally, safety or impossibility is a solid defense against just about all traffic infractions. If you're coming up to a stop sign and plan to turn left you're supposed to signal a stop and a turn while stopping and turning, with the turn signalled throughout the turn. Well, you can't both hand signal a stop and a turn at the same time. It's also dangerous to stop or attempt to start a bicycle with only one hand on the bars. Basically, it's both impossible and unsafe to attempt to comply with many laws, because they wren't made with bicyclists in mind. For instance, the law says a bicyclist can stop and get off at a curb, but what if it's a no stopping zone? With designated bicycle parking on the sidewalk, why can't you ride up to it from the nearest curb cut, like a car can drive across the sidewalk to get into a garage? (Assuming of course proper precaution.) Cars obviously don't get to park on sidewalks. And bicycles can't legally be parked in the street. Which just illustrates the legal differences.
And being on the shoulder does not absolve any vehicle from following traffic control devices, and every state considers a bicycle a vehicle. You may want it to, but there is no apparent legal basis in CA, or any other state I have looked at. CA has specific instructions on how a bike may use a crosswalk, and it is specific in dismounting to use it as a pedestrian, and how to ride it as a vehicle.
Again, no disrespect, and I am not doubting what you do or what standard practice is. I am just saying that there is no apparent legal basis for your post that I could find.
06-11-13, 07:09 PM
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ok, so here's one for you all, what about the traffic lights that are controlled by an optical sensor? near me, it seems that in the daylight hours a cyclist will not trip them and you will be stuck at that red light forever unless a car pulls up opposite you. Is it still illegal to run this light after stopping and checking for traffic?
06-11-13, 07:11 PM
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I do the same, with the addition of no pedestrians around approaching a crosswalk. If nobody was there to see it, did it really happen?
While bicycles follow all the same laws here in CA as cars, in reality this breaks down quickly. For one thing, bicycles are human-powered, so are in a different legal class to begin with. They can be operated on the shoulder for instance, while cars can't, and shoulders aren't subject to normal traffic rules. You can ride in any direction, one-way signs don't apply, don't have to stop for lights or stop signs, etc. You can reenter the roadway at will whenever it's safe to do so. This means you can often just move over 2' to the right and legally roll past a stop sign, then reenter the road a little further down. Often this is extended to bike lanes in 3-way intersections, where the limit (stop) line isn't painted into the bike lane. Bikes can also ride on MUPs, and use crosswalks, paths, and sidewalks that reasonably provide access to it. (Under a presumption of public easement, basically the same reason people have a right to drive cars across sidewalks to and from garages, parking lots, etc.) Then, finally, safety or impossibility is a solid defense against just about all traffic infractions. If you're coming up to a stop sign and plan to turn left you're supposed to signal a stop and a turn while stopping and turning, with the turn signalled throughout the turn. Well, you can't both hand signal a stop and a turn at the same time. It's also dangerous to stop or attempt to start a bicycle with only one hand on the bars. Basically, it's both impossible and unsafe to attempt to comply with many laws, because they wren't made with bicyclists in mind. For instance, the law says a bicyclist can stop and get off at a curb, but what if it's a no stopping zone? With designated bicycle parking on the sidewalk, why can't you ride up to it from the nearest curb cut, like a car can drive across the sidewalk to get into a garage? (Assuming of course proper precaution.) Cars obviously don't get to park on sidewalks. And bicycles can't legally be parked in the street. Which just illustrates the legal differences.
While bicycles follow all the same laws here in CA as cars, in reality this breaks down quickly. For one thing, bicycles are human-powered, so are in a different legal class to begin with. They can be operated on the shoulder for instance, while cars can't, and shoulders aren't subject to normal traffic rules. You can ride in any direction, one-way signs don't apply, don't have to stop for lights or stop signs, etc. You can reenter the roadway at will whenever it's safe to do so. This means you can often just move over 2' to the right and legally roll past a stop sign, then reenter the road a little further down. Often this is extended to bike lanes in 3-way intersections, where the limit (stop) line isn't painted into the bike lane. Bikes can also ride on MUPs, and use crosswalks, paths, and sidewalks that reasonably provide access to it. (Under a presumption of public easement, basically the same reason people have a right to drive cars across sidewalks to and from garages, parking lots, etc.) Then, finally, safety or impossibility is a solid defense against just about all traffic infractions. If you're coming up to a stop sign and plan to turn left you're supposed to signal a stop and a turn while stopping and turning, with the turn signalled throughout the turn. Well, you can't both hand signal a stop and a turn at the same time. It's also dangerous to stop or attempt to start a bicycle with only one hand on the bars. Basically, it's both impossible and unsafe to attempt to comply with many laws, because they wren't made with bicyclists in mind. For instance, the law says a bicyclist can stop and get off at a curb, but what if it's a no stopping zone? With designated bicycle parking on the sidewalk, why can't you ride up to it from the nearest curb cut, like a car can drive across the sidewalk to get into a garage? (Assuming of course proper precaution.) Cars obviously don't get to park on sidewalks. And bicycles can't legally be parked in the street. Which just illustrates the legal differences.
Incorrect
06-11-13, 07:41 PM
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Today I went thru a 4 way, all be it at a slow speed as I was the first to arrive...guy in a car literally pulls up next to me and tells me I should stop at a stop sign, I politely explain that I am a pedestrian and have the right of way and thank him for his concern ( I was very nice about it), he replies with "Even bicycles have to stop" and zooms off.
His car was literally 300-400 feet on the approach from another direction when I went thru the four way...so what is the rule of the road? what do you do?
His car was literally 300-400 feet on the approach from another direction when I went thru the four way...so what is the rule of the road? what do you do?
The driver was right.
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06-11-13, 07:50 PM
#63
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my philosophy is to do whatever you want, so long as you don't put anyone in danger. I'll stop if there's cars, but I won't if I'm alone. I'll bike to home depot on the sidewalk at 10 mph without a helmet, but I'll give cars the right of way when they turn.
you have to admit biking on the road is a little counter intuitive to drivers. I've received more sh*t from drivers for biking on the road, than I have for running reds.
you have to admit biking on the road is a little counter intuitive to drivers. I've received more sh*t from drivers for biking on the road, than I have for running reds.
06-11-13, 07:51 PM
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06-11-13, 08:01 PM
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06-11-13, 08:12 PM
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I agree, even though most laws are well intentioned, there has to be some spirit to them and little understanding between riders and drivers...to say it's cut and dry with no ounce of a gray area seems a little closed minded. Share the road, try to look at it from the others perspective....
06-11-13, 08:30 PM
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Bikes obey the same rules as cars when on the road. You should stop. I would say something to you as well. If you are on the sidewalk, get off and walk your bike across the crosswalk if you want to be treated like a pedestrian.
Here are the laws for your state.
https://www.m-bike.org/blog/laws/
Here are the laws for your state.
https://www.m-bike.org/blog/laws/
06-11-13, 08:44 PM
#69
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Yes, given the chance. We have bike lanes in our residential neighborhood. Cars use them as passing lanes. I let them know that is not acceptable as well. I honk at cars that run stop signs or speed in school zones, etc, in residential areas.
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06-11-13, 08:55 PM
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Well, at least you're consistent. Honking is not the same as saying something, though. Given a chance, would you say something to someone who did 66 in a 65?
06-11-13, 08:57 PM
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I just hate slowing up my cadence and stopping for a car ....
You don't even slow your cadence? That's not much different from what one might call 'blowing through' a stop sign. I can see that driver's might take umbrage at that (although I can't personally imagine pulling up alongside to tell someone that).
No cars and good sightlines and I will blow through stop signs. If I can see any cars, I at least coast to a near stop. I seldom come to a full stop, but many cars don't either. If I'm following roughly the same 'rules' as the local drivers, they see it as compliance. If I ran through at speed, drivers would tend to think 'damn bicyclists won't follow the rules.' 99% of drivers around here give bicyclists a lot of respect. In return, I want to respect them.
You don't even slow your cadence? That's not much different from what one might call 'blowing through' a stop sign. I can see that driver's might take umbrage at that (although I can't personally imagine pulling up alongside to tell someone that).
No cars and good sightlines and I will blow through stop signs. If I can see any cars, I at least coast to a near stop. I seldom come to a full stop, but many cars don't either. If I'm following roughly the same 'rules' as the local drivers, they see it as compliance. If I ran through at speed, drivers would tend to think 'damn bicyclists won't follow the rules.' 99% of drivers around here give bicyclists a lot of respect. In return, I want to respect them.
06-11-13, 09:00 PM
#72
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And yes, I have ridden up to cars at the next light or intersection and talked to the driver about running a stop sign, etc. It is never received well. Probably a waste of time. Have also walked down the street and talked the father of young man and the young man about running the stop sign in front of my house where my two sons and their friends play. Asked him how he would feel the rest of his life after running that sign and killing someone. His reply, I am not going to kill anyone. His dad runs the same sign.
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06-11-13, 09:06 PM
#74
You Know!? For Kids!
https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/qu...one-way-street
https://la-bike.org/resources/california-bicycle-laws
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/shr_slow_veh.htm
Every single thing I can find contradicts you. Where do you get your information? Just curious.
https://la-bike.org/resources/california-bicycle-laws
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/shr_slow_veh.htm
Every single thing I can find contradicts you. Where do you get your information? Just curious.
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06-11-13, 09:16 PM
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I guess you can see many perspectives here on this topic. You have to comply with all traffic laws as a cyclist. Does everybody follow the laws? No. Same as cars. they have to follow the traffic laws. Do all cars follow the traffic laws? No.
I personally see a lot of fellow roadies on the weekends riding and breezing through intersections, stop signs, etc. I think where I live there is still a lot of frustration of cyclists being on the roadway. I have had a few tell me get on the sidewalk believe it or not. Either way you must do what's safe to you. Follow the laws if you are riding at certain times of the day. If you are like many of the cyclists that live in my area they are out on the road very early morning hours when there is little to no traffic...but that's recreational riding.
I personally see a lot of fellow roadies on the weekends riding and breezing through intersections, stop signs, etc. I think where I live there is still a lot of frustration of cyclists being on the roadway. I have had a few tell me get on the sidewalk believe it or not. Either way you must do what's safe to you. Follow the laws if you are riding at certain times of the day. If you are like many of the cyclists that live in my area they are out on the road very early morning hours when there is little to no traffic...but that's recreational riding.