mpetry912 

so the problem is not with you

unlike most newbie posters, we could not have imagined you had frame blocks and knew how to use a sledge

we are often faced with helping "newbies" figure out poorly defined problems "my bike is making a funny noise"

glad you got this figured out

/markp

TC1

That advice had already been tried, and it had failed, so how was it "solid"?

The eventual solution was not, in fact, suggested by anyone here -- so let's just call this claim "dubious", and leave it at that.

TC1

With respect, I gave y'all a pretty big hint in the very first message when I mentioned that I welded this frame.

shelbyfv

So shortly after asking for help, you came up with a genius solution for your problem. You could have just posted in the "Hints and Tricks" thread and avoided all the drama.

Dan Burkhart 

Yeah I caught that. I presume as someone who has built at least one frame, you understand that the head tube needs to be reamed to correct for any distortion and to ensure a proper fit of the headset.
I would give it another reaming before re installing the headset.

smd4

No one who’s ever worked on bikes would have suggested your “solution.” Ice cubes? Seriously? You got lucky.

You used the wrong tools and techniques. Glad you worked it out.

smd4

Hint? You gave a “hint??” You didn’t say you welded it yourself. “My welds” isn’t very informative. Personally, I think brazing would be preferable to welding.

With respect.

TC1

Technically, I didn't ask for help. I just asked if anyone had broken a frame in this manner. More to the point, I did not say the solution was genius -- only that no one here offered it. And that it did work.

TC1

It's already/still as round as I can measure. That said, the headset cups are not high-end, and they might be on the large side of spec. I am considering not re-using them. New paint won't arrive for more than a week, so I have some time to think about it.

Thanks.

TC1

Anyone who has worked with dissimilar metal assemblies would have -- using heat is an incredibly common tactic to free such, and I'm annoyed that I didn't try it first, actually.

Oh really. What are the right tools and techniques for removing pressed-in headset cups? ( Rhetorical question, since a headset removal tool very clearly is. )

Well, my tig machine disagrees, as does most of the bicycle market these days, although I do tig-braze some small bits, and other projects.


Alright folks, I'm guessing that we've beat this horse thoroughly beyond any use, and am going to suggest that unless anyone has substantive commentary on the topic -- like Mr Burkhart did -- we call it a night.

Mr. 66

No, never.

However you appear not knowing with your starting techniques written, now lol you get the flame for assuming that everyone knows you built a frame without saying I built this frame, get some better paint next time. Did you paint this yourself? Why did you use such a junk paint for your self built? I agree if you used better paint you would have had better results.

Heat is always my second try on anything difficult. I'll put grease on the area that I heat. I'll heat to the point that the grease wicks into area that's of issue. Then try removing.

veganbikes

To me the age of the account doesn't always matter but we tend to get a lot of new folks lately who aren't here for good and have no idea what they are doing but are beyond confident in it and that is the problem. You have to realize hey maybe I don't know, maybe I should just shut up and listen even if it is hard sometimes. Having been working in shops for a decent amount of time and been a bike nerd and have a high interest in cycling, I still know there is a lot I can learn. When people begin to call me an expert I generally try and squash that quickly and say I still have a lot I don't know.

Obviously yes it is a online forum and there are a lot of people who believe they are experts and yada yada yada but in the end you came in hot when you didn't need to be and no you shouldn't cut out a headset cup except as a way last resort if it is not moving at all and you have tried a lot of stuff to remove it and done it all as properly as possible and it really won't come out.

TC1

Just in case anyone cares, like perhaps the administrator, I can explain why some of those people "aren't here for good." This forum is not at all friendly -- even by internet standards ( and I used to run some, decades ago ). Perhaps that's by design, in which case, carry-on, but if not, adjustments could be made. My skin is plenty tough, but I see why many folks bail on this forum without much delay.

How so, exactly? Feel free to re-read my original message, or even the others, and explain how "hot" they are.

What actually happened was that I asked an unusual question, and received a few requests for clarification, a couple well-meaning suggestions to a question that I didn't ask, and some poor advice that doesn't even comport with the known laws of physics. When I observed that such advice was nonsensical, some people like FDinNY, shelbyfv, and smd4 resorted to attacking me personally, which I understand to be in violation of the rules here.

shelbyfv

What sort of evidence do you have that "many folks bail on this forum without much delay"? Also, maybe you can point to a post where I have "attacked" you. I did ask if you were qualified to invoke all this talk of physics. The answer may embarrass you but asking was hardly an attack, especially given that you were presenting yourself as someone with special knowledge.

Schweinhund

You going to paint it anyway? I think you have a bond between your old paint/powdercoat and the cup. heat it up good to break the bond.

TC1

Thanks for the suggestion. I went the opposite way and used cold, not heat, and it worked yesterday.

@smd4 : What happened to your claim that "No one who’s ever worked on bikes would have suggested your solution"?

veganbikes

Those folks aren't here for good because they are here to troll. a common internet thing. It has nothing to do with your perceived lack of friendliness here though yes sometimes it can feel that people are harsh but we have had cases where both parties were in agreement but the new poster had to argue with them and being kind of hostile and these were folks in agreement with each other not people on opposing sides of the aisle. People see a lot of silly stuff around here and it isn't a oh we are just unfriendly people it is people coming with a question and only wanting to hear what they want to hear and nothing else and if you try to have an opposing viewpoint or a more educated viewpoint that doesn't match up exactly with what you want to hear people get a little testy.

I am curious who are all these people "bailing on this forum, without delay"? I am curious there have been a lot of us who clearly haven't bailed and plenty of new folks who are still active sure on any online forum there will be people who literally use it like google and don't come back but they aren't here as a forum member they are here because we are a more specific google search engine for them. They were never here to join the forums they saw it as let me just quickly run into their meeting and throw my hand up and then their buddy texts hey about to leave get in the car. It is common on any forum on the internet this is not a unique thing here.

When I said you came in hot I read what your wrote your initial post was fine but then you got rather argumentative quickly. There was no need for that. You are a new poster and that is why I said you came in hot not that your first post was hot necessarily but you started off your time here in the full sense being "hot". I got the feeling of "I know better" instead of "I could learn". Maybe I got the wrong impression it is in the end text on a page but I tried to be nice here and not totally lay into you but guide you a little. I apologize if you felt attacked or anything at least from me. I don't think anyone else was attacking you either but text on a page can be misinterpreted and I won't lie some of us can get a little snarky. It is the internet after all!

Schweinhund

Awesome, Pretty sure cold wouldn't have worked with powdercoat and I wasn't sure what you had there.

TC1

Extremely so, in my experience here. Made even worse by how wrong those testy folks are.

I don't know, I was referring to your comment that "we tend to get a lot of new folks lately who aren't here for good..."

With respect, that was not my initial post here -- I have already been helping a few people, although not necessarily in this subforum. More to the point, I was polite, and not argumentative in this thread. Admittedly, I have been amazed by the resistance to learning exhibited in 'that other thread', which has devolved into an argument.

I appreciate that, and I don't feel that you specifically have said anything untoward. I cannot say the same for some of your compatriots in this subforum, unfortunately. But hey, apparently the administrator is cool with the behavior exhibited here, so far be it from me to worry about it.

smd4

Telling someone their kindly and freely-given advice or suggestion is “counterproductive” is pretty much the opposite of “polite.”

CliffordK

Glad you got the cup out.

For a lot of similar removals on cars or equipment, the suggestion is to use an air impact hammer. Lots of small impacts rather than a few big whops from a sledge.

Most of my headset removal, I'll find a big Crescent wrench and adjust it to grab loosely around the head tube and rest on the cup and pound the cup out. No special tool.

veganbikes

I wasn't referring to older forum members but new folks coming in asking questions and then going crazy on people who agree with them or maybe don't.

The folks here for no good aren't bailing quickly they are trolls here to troll and the only time they are gone is when they get banned for trolling. So who are these folks who are bailing? They aren't the folks I was talking about and well if they were the folks you were talking about you are missing everything here.

I guess I have missed your earlier posts but from what I am seeing it is not a good start maybe it started good and you started back sliding I don't know but it is not looking good right now.

smd4

Sure, we’d use heat trying to remove 3/4” studs from the steam dome of a 1941 locomotive, but no bike shop I ever wrenched in had an ice maker or a torch. And yet, we still were able to remove stubborn headset cups…

Gresp15C

Just as an aside, I've never clamped a frame while removing headset cups. I just hold the head tube in one hand and bang on the remover with a big hammer in the other hand. The remover is the old trusty piece of electrical conduit, slotted, and spread out a bit to form 4 tabs.

The opposing force comes from the inertia of the frame. I think it's the most gentle way to do it, without risking breaking the frame joints, bending the tubes, or gouging the frame in the jaws of the vise. Also, I wouldn't discount the use of ice, though I've never tried it myself.

BCDrums

I happened upon this comment on removing headset bearings on Dave Moulton's blog. Dave had a reputation as a good frame builder in the previous century. He is now retired. He wrote: