open-bearing wheel wobble
08-03-11, 08:23 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
open-bearing wheel wobble
My goal is to diagnose what's wrong with this wheel, and fix it.
Description of wheel: It's a vintage 27 inch aluminum wheel, open bearings (9, 1/4 inch bearings on each side), Maillard hub with quick release, Atom freewheel, Weinmann rim, 3-cross steel spokes.
Description of problem: When riding, wheel seemed increasingly out of balance. It's at the point where I won't ride it again until it's repaired. Bearings and cones look normal. The cone adjustment seems right. It spins freely with no free lateral movement on the axle. While holding the frame with rear wheel off the ground, and spinning it with the crank, there's a + 1/2 inch wobble at the rim when looking between the chainstays. There's a noticeable wobble looking at the hub, more noticeable on the hub's left side outside the spokes, but also seen on the right (freewheel side) with parabolic-type freewheel motion. Visually, the hub wobble seems correlated with the feeling or motion of it being out-of-balance.
Question: How would you diagnose and fix the wheel? Is wobble at the hub primary or secondary?
Description of wheel: It's a vintage 27 inch aluminum wheel, open bearings (9, 1/4 inch bearings on each side), Maillard hub with quick release, Atom freewheel, Weinmann rim, 3-cross steel spokes.
Description of problem: When riding, wheel seemed increasingly out of balance. It's at the point where I won't ride it again until it's repaired. Bearings and cones look normal. The cone adjustment seems right. It spins freely with no free lateral movement on the axle. While holding the frame with rear wheel off the ground, and spinning it with the crank, there's a + 1/2 inch wobble at the rim when looking between the chainstays. There's a noticeable wobble looking at the hub, more noticeable on the hub's left side outside the spokes, but also seen on the right (freewheel side) with parabolic-type freewheel motion. Visually, the hub wobble seems correlated with the feeling or motion of it being out-of-balance.
Question: How would you diagnose and fix the wheel? Is wobble at the hub primary or secondary?
Last edited by justadude; 08-03-11 at 08:40 AM. Reason: add description
08-03-11, 08:53 AM
#3
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,844
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 929 Times
in
614 Posts
With the wheel off the ground, holding the rim, does it have any play side to side ?
What do the bearings feel like when the wheel is off the bike ? Smooth ? Any play in the axle ? A tiny bit of play is good because it will go away when the qr is tightened.
What do the bearings feel like when the wheel is off the bike ? Smooth ? Any play in the axle ? A tiny bit of play is good because it will go away when the qr is tightened.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
08-03-11, 08:57 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
If the hub is properly adjusted and smooth, the wobble has to be due to the rim being out of true. A spoke wrench and proper truing should fix it unless the rim it self has been bent or damaged.
08-03-11, 09:38 AM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
There seems to be no play side to side at the hub/axle from pressing the rim side-to-side. Seems to spin free, but not too loose on the axle. The wheel spins smooth, but doesn't seem to spin as long as it should normally.
08-03-11, 09:41 AM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
So the wobble at the hub/axle would probably be secondary to the wheel being out of true? The rim doesn't appear to be bent or damaged.
Last edited by justadude; 08-03-11 at 09:43 AM. Reason: add info
08-04-11, 12:05 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,547
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1529 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
If your bearings are properly adjusted and the hub wobbles, that says to me your hub is toast.
08-04-11, 01:40 AM
#9
people's champ
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: joisey
Posts: 1,517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
2 Posts
are you tightening the cones properly - are you using cone wrenches to tighten the cone nuts and lock nuts against each other - it sounds like you get the wheel spinning well in your hands ok (maybe even a little tight) but on the bike it loosens because the nuts werent tightened sufficiently - for me - i gotta use cone wrenches AND an axle vice
https://cgi.ebay.com/Park-Tool-AV-1-A...#ht_500wt_1202
too so that the opposite cone doesnt come loose during tightening of the other
https://cgi.ebay.com/Park-Tool-AV-1-A...#ht_500wt_1202
too so that the opposite cone doesnt come loose during tightening of the other
08-04-11, 08:06 AM
#10
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,844
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 929 Times
in
614 Posts
I can't picture the wobble at the hub on the non-freewheel side unless part of the hub is broken. Unless a dust cap at the axle is on a little crooked which doesn't matter.
A little freewheel wobble when coasting is normal due to less than perfect machining on lower end components.
Sounds like the wheel needs truing, which is a separate issue.
A little freewheel wobble when coasting is normal due to less than perfect machining on lower end components.
Sounds like the wheel needs truing, which is a separate issue.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Last edited by Homebrew01; 08-04-11 at 08:10 AM.
08-04-11, 11:19 AM
#11
Senior Member
I'd say the OP sent us on a wild goose chase by using the wrong terms.
Justadude, if your hub has been adjusted as you say so you can't feel any play at the rim then what you have is not wobble, which indicates "play". It's called runout which is being caused by your rim and spokes being out of true. You just need to get them trued up either by yourself or a wheel tech.
As noted if your wheel doesn't run as long as you think it should then you may have tightened the axle a little too much. The QR skewer compresses the axle slightly and that is enough to make a "perfect" bearing adjustment come out too tight. That's why it was mentioned that you need to have just a hair of play in the axle. Then when the QR skewer tightens up the play just goes away.
I like to adjust the bearing preload with a QR skewer in place and tightened the same as it would be on the bike. This requires some washers to be used to simulate the dropout on one side and a small thick washer to trap the skewer at the end of the axle on the other so as to leave the locking nut on that side open so the preload can be adjusted.
Justadude, if your hub has been adjusted as you say so you can't feel any play at the rim then what you have is not wobble, which indicates "play". It's called runout which is being caused by your rim and spokes being out of true. You just need to get them trued up either by yourself or a wheel tech.
As noted if your wheel doesn't run as long as you think it should then you may have tightened the axle a little too much. The QR skewer compresses the axle slightly and that is enough to make a "perfect" bearing adjustment come out too tight. That's why it was mentioned that you need to have just a hair of play in the axle. Then when the QR skewer tightens up the play just goes away.
I like to adjust the bearing preload with a QR skewer in place and tightened the same as it would be on the bike. This requires some washers to be used to simulate the dropout on one side and a small thick washer to trap the skewer at the end of the axle on the other so as to leave the locking nut on that side open so the preload can be adjusted.
08-04-11, 11:31 AM
#12
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,844
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 929 Times
in
614 Posts
We need a sticky somewhere with an exploded view of a bicycle with every part named.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
08-04-11, 01:46 PM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Thank you all for the information. Kimmo: I hope the hub isn't toast, but anything's possible. I think I'm going to take it to the mechanic and pay him to true it. If the cones need some adjustment afterward, I think I'll know what to do with them.
