New sport bike-why would I even want disk brakes?
01-02-20, 10:10 AM
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I thought that, at the most likely yaw angles, the most aero TT bikes these days were disc? Or have I just fallen prey to Big Bike marketing?
01-02-20, 10:15 AM
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I haven't looked into it recently, but I thought most TT bikes had disc or rim brake options available.
Last edited by noodle soup; 01-02-20 at 10:20 AM.
01-02-20, 11:01 AM
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01-02-20, 11:07 AM
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01-02-20, 11:16 AM
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Glad the OP found a bike, hope he has many safe miles on it!
As for me, disc brakes all the way. I'm 185lbs and did over 600k ft of climbing last year, getting my first disc brake bike mid year was a game changer, and prompted a switch to discs for my road bike by the fall. The only way I'll have rim brakes again is on a TT bike.
As for me, disc brakes all the way. I'm 185lbs and did over 600k ft of climbing last year, getting my first disc brake bike mid year was a game changer, and prompted a switch to discs for my road bike by the fall. The only way I'll have rim brakes again is on a TT bike.
01-02-20, 11:43 AM
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I imagine the same also holds true for tri bikes - I havent really seen any data comparing rim brake to disc brake versions. And since i dont really need aggressive braking during a triathlon, I am sticking with rim brakes for now. I have a cheap pair of entry wheels i use for general training, and HED 9/disc for racing or race sims, and dont need to swap in any other wheels - which eliminates the need to have all-disc stable.
01-02-20, 04:19 PM
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01-02-20, 04:38 PM
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As for me, disc brakes all the way. I'm 185lbs and did over 600k ft of climbing last year, getting my first disc brake bike mid year was a game changer, and prompted a switch to discs for my road bike by the fall. The only way I'll have rim brakes again is on a TT bike.
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01-02-20, 05:03 PM
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01-02-20, 05:10 PM
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There have been times I've wished I could ride up and but have to ride back down.
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01-02-20, 05:14 PM
#88
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If you weigh 140 or less instead of 185, disc brakes certainly aren't needed, unless you also descend in the rain frequently. I did at least 7,000 miles of pure descending on mountain roads with many corners in 7 years and never felt the need for disc brakes, but back then there were no road bikes with disc brakes. Somehow, most people survived. Descending down Mt.Evans 6 times was no problem with rim brakes. I quit cycling in 2010 and when I came back to in 2018, disc brakes were a big thing and many people needed them.
My research shows that disc brake groupsets cost more and weigh more, disc frames weigh more and disc wheelsets weigh more (comparing the same wheelset in disc and rim models).
My bikes have the latest 12 speed groupsets so I'm no Luddite. I just don't need discs. Folks should buy whatever they feel they need.
My research shows that disc brake groupsets cost more and weigh more, disc frames weigh more and disc wheelsets weigh more (comparing the same wheelset in disc and rim models).
My bikes have the latest 12 speed groupsets so I'm no Luddite. I just don't need discs. Folks should buy whatever they feel they need.
Last edited by DaveSSS; 01-03-20 at 10:30 AM.
01-02-20, 05:19 PM
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On an off-topic note.. do any of the major online cycling apps (Strava, RWGPS, etc) provide any reporting on total (eg. annual) descents, or just elevation gain?
01-02-20, 06:36 PM
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True, but it isn't necessarily a big difference. On my disc-brake road bike the penalties were only about 2% and 4%, respectively, of the overall cost and weight of the bike.
01-02-20, 06:46 PM
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01-03-20, 06:35 AM
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From what I gather, aero road disc bikes havent really caught up to their rim brethren - Spesh claims that the Venge disc is faster than the ViAs but Tour magazine testing shows that the current disc Madone is slower than the old rim brake one, and the same is also true of the S5.
I imagine the same also holds true for tri bikes - I havent really seen any data comparing rim brake to disc brake versions. And since i dont really need aggressive braking during a triathlon, I am sticking with rim brakes for now. I have a cheap pair of entry wheels i use for general training, and HED 9/disc for racing or race sims, and dont need to swap in any other wheels - which eliminates the need to have all-disc stable.
I imagine the same also holds true for tri bikes - I havent really seen any data comparing rim brake to disc brake versions. And since i dont really need aggressive braking during a triathlon, I am sticking with rim brakes for now. I have a cheap pair of entry wheels i use for general training, and HED 9/disc for racing or race sims, and dont need to swap in any other wheels - which eliminates the need to have all-disc stable.
01-03-20, 10:34 AM
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^^^ Interesting link. I enjoy GCN videos but i really wish they would be a bit more rigorous with their science.
That said, it wouldnt surprise me if most road bikes are more aero on rim brakes. However, I do wonder to what extent the aero leaders with the big budgets (Trek, Spesh, C'dale and Giant) are able to narrow the gap with their statement bikes. I took this screenshot below off a discussion on Slowtwitch, and it is from Tour Magazine's last test. While I dont know the error margins of the test, Cannondale's SystemSix is the only bike that has beaten the old rim-brake Trek Madone: both the current disc Madone and Venge are slower than their rim counterparts (Spesh claims differently and their result might be valid based on their own wind tunnel, testing protocol, etc).
For me, the differences werent enough to justify getting a rim brake bike.
That said, it wouldnt surprise me if most road bikes are more aero on rim brakes. However, I do wonder to what extent the aero leaders with the big budgets (Trek, Spesh, C'dale and Giant) are able to narrow the gap with their statement bikes. I took this screenshot below off a discussion on Slowtwitch, and it is from Tour Magazine's last test. While I dont know the error margins of the test, Cannondale's SystemSix is the only bike that has beaten the old rim-brake Trek Madone: both the current disc Madone and Venge are slower than their rim counterparts (Spesh claims differently and their result might be valid based on their own wind tunnel, testing protocol, etc).
For me, the differences werent enough to justify getting a rim brake bike.
01-03-20, 10:42 AM
#94
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I owned the earliest R3 model. I rode in the mountains twice, then sold it. Goofy geometry back then.
Last edited by DaveSSS; 01-03-20 at 11:45 AM.
01-03-20, 10:50 AM
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Excellent point in the video, confidence and feel. Very hard to quantify, but absolutely played a role in my decision. Yes, my carbon rims with grooved brake track and good pads, combined with the direct mount Ultegra brakes, did brake very well. But I was not confident in them when doing big descents. They never failed me, but I always had that "what if" thought in the back of my head, so I was probably overly careful with them. Bring in the disc brakes and those thoughts are completely gone, I have full confidence in my brakes and therefore descend faster and brake harder. Whether or not I could have been descending at the same speeds with my previous setup is irrelevant to me, the fact that discs give me the confidence to do it now is all that matters.
Very true
We'll assume somewhat equal amounts of descending were involved. 
Actually, I was riding the Creeper Trail in VA, 33 miles of gravel, with the second half having a steady 2-3% grade. Not a huge amount, but definitely made for a fun return trip. Then I realized that there was a place doing bike rentals that would also drive you to the higher end of the trail, so you could ride the grade back down. 
Very true
We'll assume somewhat equal amounts of descending were involved.
01-03-20, 10:50 AM
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Given a dream bike purchase, I’d go P5D. Maybe. Spending money, I’m very happy with a P2 and Hed Jets. The premium of thousands (disks are still only on the more expensive tri bikes) is not sensible.
And those test results are from ST Aerocamp at A2, ERO, and Aerocoach over in the UK, so it’s not one person with outlier results. Disks may get faster, but no one testing for their own max speed has seen it.
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01-03-20, 11:26 AM
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I got tired of going through expensive rims every 2-3 years. I also live in an area ripe with twisty 10-15% grade downhills that end at stop signs, and I like to go fast. I'm also racing the Belgian Waffle Ride this year, and I've heard horror stories of massive blistering and clawhands for days afterwards due to what is required to operate rim brakes during that race.
For the type of riding/racing I do, disc brakes were a no-brainer.
For the type of riding/racing I do, disc brakes were a no-brainer.
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01-03-20, 11:51 AM
#98
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Is the severe rim wear due to riding in the wet? My 7 years of continuous riding in the Colorado mountains never caused any significant rim wear, but I never ride in the wet. I've never worn out a pair of rim brake pads either.
01-03-20, 12:13 PM
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I spent 8 years in Littleton, CO riding into the mountains and never had issues with rim wear. I also spent almost 20 years riding the mountains of MT and still didn't have issues. It wasn't until I moved to Oregon that I started to blow through rims. They build the roads here in western Oregon without snow in mind, so they tend to be steeper, twistier, and there is a shocking amount of downhills that end at stop signs that require braking from 45+mph to a dead stop on a downhill slope.
Example:
My average speed for this segment was 43.5 mph, and it ends at a stop sign on a ~19% downhill grade. That's a tremendous amount of energy to impart into rim brakes, and the smell coming off of the pads was enough to tell me that rim brakes simply aren't enough for me.
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01-03-20, 12:17 PM
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I've had the fun situation of melting my rim brakes on descents before. I also wanted carbon wheels without the sloppy breaking or heat build-up issue, so I decided to go disc brake with carbon wheels. I have fabulous breaking in every condition (it makes me laugh when everyone has to start braking farrr ahead of time on a rainy downhill, or refuses to go through a puddle blocking the road for fear of losing traction on their next descent).
You seem to be 100% against the idea that disc brakes on a road bike are a good idea and are leaning into the conspiracy that they only appear to be a good idea because of the on-going commercial efforts by most of the companies designing them, not because they are actually any improvement. Realistically though, I have two race bikes, one with alloy wheels and ultegra rim brakes, the other with carbon wheels and 105 hydraulic disc brakes (Dura-Ace rotors, however, for the bling) and I'd say on a regular sunny day, they don't feel much different, but when almost any inclement weather starts or I have to descend some unfamiliar 2000ft of switchbacks, there's simply no comparison.
So, have fun not buying into the marketing, but rim brakes are about as good as disc brakes when it's dry, sunny, you're using alloy wheels, you have fresh breaks, and you don't plan on actually using them much on long descents. However, if you want near-perfect stopping power in all conditions with carbon wheels, then discs are a no brainer.
As for maintenance, I've had to replace rim brake pads a couple of times a season but have literally not touched my disc brakes whatsoever, never adjusted them, never bled them, just rode and rode and rode with confidence.
You seem to be 100% against the idea that disc brakes on a road bike are a good idea and are leaning into the conspiracy that they only appear to be a good idea because of the on-going commercial efforts by most of the companies designing them, not because they are actually any improvement. Realistically though, I have two race bikes, one with alloy wheels and ultegra rim brakes, the other with carbon wheels and 105 hydraulic disc brakes (Dura-Ace rotors, however, for the bling) and I'd say on a regular sunny day, they don't feel much different, but when almost any inclement weather starts or I have to descend some unfamiliar 2000ft of switchbacks, there's simply no comparison.
So, have fun not buying into the marketing, but rim brakes are about as good as disc brakes when it's dry, sunny, you're using alloy wheels, you have fresh breaks, and you don't plan on actually using them much on long descents. However, if you want near-perfect stopping power in all conditions with carbon wheels, then discs are a no brainer.
As for maintenance, I've had to replace rim brake pads a couple of times a season but have literally not touched my disc brakes whatsoever, never adjusted them, never bled them, just rode and rode and rode with confidence.
From what I can tell, the tallest thing in Wisconsin is ~400' so you must both get out of town a lot, and ride your breaks (sic) to the extreme.