Metieval

If you are not flexible enough to use the drops /hooks properly, then it stands to reason you are also not limber enough to use your neck properly.

It's like fitness. A cyclist either has physical fitness, or he can fitness whole pizza in his mouth. LOL

terrymorse 

It takes two to argue. As long as you keep throwing softballs, I'll keep knocking them out of the park.

Further nonsense. You conveniently ignore the probability of an emergency event. This was one of those "higher probability" times:

It was dark (reduced vision distance), it was just after twilight (time when deer are on the move), it was in an area where deer had been sighted (history). The prudent choice was to ride in the drops, with fingers covering the brake levers. That prudence was rewarded.

Again, you conveniently conflate the advice from experts with the stupid risks that pros take while racing. Listen to the experts, don't emulate risky pro racer behavior.

False, I never made that assertion. That's your invention from whole cloth.

Effective braking can be done from the hoods, but more effective braking can be done from the drops.

Sorry for giving you the benefit of the doubt by inferring that you had knew about sprinting technique. I won't make that mistake twice.

terrymorse 

That left tire track is also nice because debris there gets swept constantly by car tires, so you're less likely to slip out on junk there.

Metieval

Out of all of the Pro riders, Who focuses solely on cyclocross and then applied to all of cycling? Was it Cyccommute?

badger1

Thread is

livedarklions

I finally figured out what the real issue is --at least two of the posters here can't master using the hoods properly, have problems keeping a grip, can't work the brake levers with their weak puny fingers, and don't take advantage of the full range of visual scanning afforded to someone riding the hoods.

There comes a point where one realizes one is arguing with fanatics who long ago left their relationship with reality at the side of the road somewhere. I'm out of this thread, let them enjoy their delusions of superiority.

wolfchild

Any person who is fit and healthy should be able to fitness the whole pizza in their mouth and wash it down with beer and still be able to maintain their fitness and be lean.

I-Like-To-Bike

Also note that people who are mentally fit and healthy would not have a need to divide groups of cyclists( or any other groups of people) into only two choices, either like themselves (Good, fit or healthy) or not (unfit, unhealthy, ignorant)categories.

Metieval

It is pretty simple, some people stretch and are limber, while others do not stretch and are not limber.

there is ALSO more than a half a dozen post in this thread pointing out, BY the POSTER themselves, that is was their belly in the way of using the drops.

Metieval

key word being "should", but many post here in this thread alone proves "should" didn't work out so well. and that their belly was the reason for not being able to reach the drops.

So "should" is just wishful thinking. It's like riding on the Hoods when they should be in the drops and hoping for the best outcome.

Metieval

The steps towards being able to reach and use your drops on a drop bar.

1. being able to see your toes while standing up straight
2. trying to touch your toes multiple times, multiple times a day.

cyccommute 

I wear a helmet in the event of an emergency for which I can’t plan. I wear a seat belt for the same reason. I wash my hands to prevent catching a disease which isn’t necessarily an emergency situation.

I don’t think much of your opinions either so I guess we are even.





Were you there? Were you in the guy’s head? The video that you are referencing didn’t even appear to have any large object that I could see. He appeared to have a momentary lapse that caused him to lose his grip. Maybe he was thinking of a cold one after the ride or he was just tired or about a thousand other reasons. You are speculating that he slipped because he wasn’t in the drops. But, as with Morse, are you suggesting that all riders should ride only in the drops 100% of the time? Or should there be a speed limit above which you should use the drops.





I’m no more “Projecting” than you are. Again, were you there? Was that you? And the rider didn’t really “endo”...as in going over the bars head first. His wheel washed out on a soft patch. It happens all the time in mountain biking and is probably a very common occurrence at cyclocross events. Hand position wouldn’t have prevented it.






I’ll take back my statement about your other statement being the most ridiculous. This is the most ridiculous bar none. Who rides a mountain bike with their thumbs “unhooked”. It’s kind of how you hold onto a flat bar. There may be times when people rest their hands on the grips but, for the most part, mountain bike riders keep their hands wrapped around the bar.





And how do you save endow on a mountain bike with hooked thumbs anyway? (This pushes your previous statement to the third most ridiculous statement.) Do your thumbs counter physics? Do they twist you back over the bars and set the wheel on the ground? Do they magically levitate you back upright...kind of E.T. style?





But, again, you seem to be confusing “endo” with other types of crashes.





Assuming that you mean a wheel washout rather than a trip over the bars, I’ve saved myself from those kinds of crashes too. But it’s not because my hands are “locked in”. Keeping the bike upright when the wheel wants to slide out requires a lot of hip action and countersteer. Where your hands are and what you are doing with them has little to do with keeping the wheel from washing out.





Yes, the guy who crashed in the video you are referring to would have done better with two hands on the bars. But it wouldn’t have made any difference if his hands were on the drops or hoods. And it’s not like he could have shifted hand positions to keep from crashing. You seem to be arguing that everyone should be riding on the drops 100% of the time to be completely safe. Not that it would matter.





Boy, are you on a roll of ridiculousness. Elbows locked while gripping the bars in any position is not conducive to good bike handling.




But do you keep them in hand at all times? Always out and ready for use just in case you have to use them? I don’t consider repair equipment to be for “emergencies”. It’s for “incidents”. A helmet is more for an emergency but I’m not always crouched and ready to fall off the bike and use the helmet. But even that isn’t “planning for an emergency” in the manner meant in this thread nor even the types of random “emergencies” that can occur on a bike

Metieval

An Endo is an Endo, Over the bars is an Over the bars. Many Over the bars is because they couldn't keep the wheel straight on the ENDO!!! Or they simply lost grip, or didn't have enough Grip/core strength to bring it back down.

On some switchbacks (MTB) it works best to intentionally endo. Which means having a Positive grip on the bar.

riding an endo is..... well watch the Video.
also while Brumotti takes many Risk, he didn't Risk GRIP or control.



as for do I ride 100% in the drops? No, I also don't ride 100% with a helmet. Like you with no accidents on the hoods, I am still alive after many rides without a helmet. Should we apply your logic of Hood riding to helmets? Or would you care to ride the drops more on descents, corners, if you didn't have a helmet to save you? I mean why do you need a helmet? You have 10,000 miles of touring on the hoods accident free?

cyccommute 

I have hundreds of hours of night riding under my belt through areas where deer are prevalent. I’ve never even seen a deer at night much less have one jump out in front of me. Am I supposed to always be prepared for something that may never happen? Is everyone? You can’t plan for a unpredictable event. You can prepare for the event but you can’t plan for it.

So who are these “experts” we are supposed to listen to? You’ve stated that we should ride like the pros but don’t ride like the pros. Listen to the ”experts” (i.e. the professional bicycle riders) but don’t listen to them? You are confused and confusing.

Your words say otherwise:

[/QUOTE]=terrymorse;21105695]I sure hope you don't descend steep mountain roads on the hoods, simply because "it's never been an issue". Yet.[/QUOTE]


Not what you said above.

Sprinting isn’t rocket science.

wolfchild

98% of people who ride drop bar bikes never use the actual drops and spent all their time riding on hoods and they end up using just that one hand position for all of their riding. So what's the point of drop bars ??.

terrymorse 

Tapping out of this thread. The arguments have become too ridiculous.

Ride on the hoods, or the drops, or the hooks, or with no hands at all. Ignore the experts if you want to. It's your life.

Metieval

and where did you get that number from?

wolfchild

Neither is using brakes on a drop bar bike a rocket science...Some posters on this list make it sound like riding a bike with drop bars is some supernatural skill that only few mortals can ever hope to achieve.

cyccommute 

You really don’t have a clue, do you? “Endo” is short for end-over-end...AKA “a header” or “a face plant” or even “over the bars”. What you are describing is a nose wheelie. The cyclocross rider that you were referring to wasn’t trying to do a nose wheelie nor was he even in danger of going over the bars. His wheel washed out and those are difficult to recover from. They are even worse in soft conditions.

Yep. It requires a good grip on the bar but that has nothing to do with “saving yourself from an endo”. Even if a nose wheelie was going to result in an endo, hand grip isn’t going to keep the endo from happening. Getting off the brake and trying to push the CG rearward would but grip would do exactly nothing.

Yep. 10,000 miles with one minor crash when my daughter stopped and I ran into her bags. Riding on the drops or hoods wouldn’t have help one way or the other.

As for riding in the drops, you seem to be saying that we should always be in the drops because we’d be prepared for problems and would have greatly superior braking power there. So why don’t you ride 100% in the drops? It’s so superior for all conditions. And how often do you ride the hoods? 5%?
25%? 75%? Or like most people I see, about 99% of the time?

Metieval

you can say Blue, they will twist it into Purple or Red even. It is 2019, people don't win arguments with facts anymore. They win them by twisting what you say.

You can show them a video of what is actually wrong with hoods, and they still won't see it.

You can show them pictures, and you have. Yet they still won't see it.

What I know to be fact is experience. I am just Glad that I was in the drops, when I came around the curve and hit road Kill on the road at 20 mph in the dark!

Happy Feet

I don't think Terry is a troll by any means, just someone who believes what he believes - which is cool even if I don't see things the same way.
And while I sometimes don't see things the same as Stuart as well, I respect that he's not afraid to have a real life presence on the board so that I at least know his opinions are based on actual experience. Like me, not perfect but what you see is pretty well what you get. It's honest.

But the other poster here, who loves to denigrate other people for being unfit and unhealthy is pretty well a troll imo. Vague, anonymous, no pics of him or his bike to substantiate how uber fit and awesome he is in comparison, he just puts people down from the shadows of obscurity. No honesty.

Metieval

so they are called nose wheelies??? You are being 100% serious?

You better tell that to all of the Videos teaching MTB how to Purposefully ENDO as a useful skill on the trails! and no they are not teaching people how to CRASH. or uhh what did you say it was? nose wheelie. I am Pretty sure I do have a clue. Trying to Insult me isn't helping your argument any.



How much, how often I am on the hoods, or I am in the drops.... means what. It means nothing and is irrelevant.

the argument is grip, superior braking....... What I do, what I don't do is irrelevant!

E.G. I say being employed helps pay the bills. Yet If I am unemployed. does that change my statement to being FALSE? NO it does not.

Now I understand why so much of what is being said to you is coming back twisted. Drop bars, grips, braking, which way is better. and you want to make it about me and what I do? what I do is irrelevant. what some pro cyclocross rider does is irrelevant.
what Th Pros say as a group on high speed descents is relevant. Well apparently it isn't relevant to YOU. Fine, but that doesn't change what it is.

Is poison still poison , if you don't eat/drink it? YES it is!!!!
the same with braking from the drops is superior, regardless of if you or I or anyone does, or does not do it that way.

Control is superior from the drops, regardless of who is or who is not using the drops.

quit making it about what people do. Vs what is, regardless of what people do.

I mean for **** sake, they drank from pewter and killed them selves with lead forever. 1 example of 1,000 that people do stuff wrong as a GROUP often!!!! Your arguments are all based on what people do. vs What is, regardless of what people do.

ab_antiquo

An endo is different than a nose bonk/nose wheelie/nose manual/euro turn.

People aren't taught to purposely do endos. Endos, by their very definition, result in a crash. If you didn't crash, you simply avoided an endo.

This is basic MTB stuff.

Metieval

better tell GMBN then.....

since you know better than them.

Metieval

point is you don't do it by resting your thumb, fingers, and hand on the top of the bar. You grab the bar with your thumbs under the bar!! The only way your hand will come off the bar is if you let go. or if your hands slides 5" out and off the end of the bar.

To get the same thumb grip on a Drop bar you do it in the drops. as your hand can only slide down or up. the only way it comes off is about 6" backwards. or letting go.

anatomy will not allow you the same grip on the hoods.


yet you all want to squabble over semantics.... Knowing that the "endo" term is used loosely. even by Major MTB networks that have MANY VIDEOS!!! The BikeForum general section population needs to go School them aye?