Mdl

Hi,
Any thoughts on value (and any info in general) in regard to the below Bertin C37 would be much appreciated. I’m going to try to setup time to see it today. Thanks
https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bik/d/sparta-54cm-bertin-c37made-in-belgium/6990063391.html


[img]blob:https://www.bikeforums.net/512b17b0-b74d-425e-a554-a57b110dd7cc

bikemig 

That bike looks to be in great shape and is a good deal (particularly given bike prices on the east coast) at $225. It looks like all the pieces may not be original (the crank looks to be a Sugino and the wheels are clinchers which is not a bad change). I'd buy it at this price particularly given the condition.

Mdl

Thanks for the info, Bikemig.
would you know whether all the tubes are 531 and what it weighs?

repechage

Bertin made a lot of models- looks worthy of inspection. The C-37 was the top of the production range.
One could drop a few steps and still have Campagnolo ends specified.
study the tubing decal- the cranks are atypical and Huret derailleurs are too.
look for kickstand stay squish
the geometry of the frame looks decent.
the lugs don't look typical for a C37 either.
looks like clincher tires- new from the factory would have been tubulars.
I cannot tell the rim material-
French bikes do present dimension and thread issues- I do not consider them a big problem but more effort.

Mdl

I am looking at it now in person. No Reynolds stickers whatsoever

bikemig 

Stickers can disappear. The bike has a half chromed fork and a half chromed rear triangle. That is usually the sign of quality tubing. If the drop outs are forged rather than stamped, then the tubing-whether it is Reynolds or Durifort which Bertin also used--will be good as well.

greg3rd48 

Let us know how this turned out.

Mdl

Thanks for the advice, Bikemig.

I bought it. I love it.

The seller said he’s the original owner. He bought the bike new in ‘73 for $275. He said he knows for sure it’s Reynolds 531. The ride and handling are excellent.

In addition, I love the way it looks. Silver forks, suede Concor SanMarco seat. Very cool. Worth every penny.

Thanks again for the quick responses, Bikemig. I really appreciate it.

bikemig 

You got a very good deal. I really like buying the bike from the original owner as that means generally that the bike has not been muddied up too much.

You will need to post some pics of the bike. That bike will need a complete overhaul before you ride it. This is a very cool bike.

juvela

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Will look forward to learning more regarding this mount.

In enlargement of first image the cycle's wheel rims appear to be chrome.

The chainset is slightly puzzling. The left arm is clearly an early Sakae Ringyo Custom with the eagle crest marking. However, the triangular pattern in the outer chainwheel matches a Sugino Maxy and is one SR did not employ on their three arm Custom set. Both firms offered a 106mm BCD three-arm so perhaps Sugino chainwheels have been fitted to an SR arm giving this appearance. Thought perhaps of the possibility that right arm is Sugino Maxy, however both of the red plastic dust covers are Sakae Ringyo.

The drive side pedal looks somewhat junky from what can be seen in the pictures and does not appear to match its NDS partner.

Unfortunately not eno' rez in images to identify frame ends.

The "made in Belgium" description fits right in with the 1973 date. Andy's factory burned down in 1972 and production was moved across the border for a period.

Shall look forward to reading the observations of @bertinjim.

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Mdl

Are the wheels (Weinmann) and spokes stainless? If not can you recommend a product I can apply to prevent rust?








Ok. I snapped a few quick picks, below. I’ll try to post more later.
Before yesterday, I knew nothing about French bikes. So, I’m very interested to know your thoughts. Especially in regard to the cranks - I don’t think I’ve seen them before. They’re not Japanese, right?

bikemig 

This bike is beautiful and you got a good deal.

I am not that familiar with Bertins and I did not know that some of their bikes were manufactured in Belgium. @bertinjim knows more about them than I do. One thing about at least some Belgian bikes is that they use British threading not metric. I think this is likely metric.

At this point, rust is not an issue so just keep it clean with a good cleaning and polishing product. There are plenty of good products out there. This is one I've used and like, https://www.amazon.com/Finish-Line-B...g-goods&sr=1-8

Before riding this bike, it will need a complete overhaul. I would use grade 25 ball bearings. Wheels manufacturing sells good quality bearings (you will need 1/4 inch for the BB and rear wheel, likely 3/16 for the front hub, and headset/pedal bearings vary). Here is a good resource:


https://bike.bikegremlin.com/2255/st...ng-ball-sizes/

You will also need to replace consumables as well (the cables, the chain, tires, and the brake shoes).

The rims likely lack a hook bead so you will need tires with a wire bead and run them around 70-75 psi. If you run them too hard (or get tires without a wire bead), you are likely to blow the tire off the rim. Panaracer makes good tires that look right on vintage bikes.

These kool stop continental brake shoes are very good

https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Bic...R8ZTVY8219A2SY

In overhauling the bike, I'd strip the bike down first. That will allow you to deal with any missing paint (clear nail polish works or you can look around for a matching paint) and to wax the frame before building it back up. You will want to grease all the fittings (anything threaded plus seatpost, handlebar, and stem, and the rear hub threads for the freewheel). There is a debate over whether to grease the crank arms or not. I don't.

Lucky you. Since you have a Japanese crank, you will not need to track down a special French crank puller.

This is a beautiful bike and quite the score.

juvela

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Thanks very much for the new photos!

Fine job with them.

Drive side pictures would help readers to give you more information about the bike.

Pedals are Lyotard model Nr. 36. The MILREMO name is a case of private labelling by Bertin.

Spokes appear to be galvanized.

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bikemig 

Agreed about the need for drive side pics. The OP should start a new thread in C&V on his find since this is no longer a valuation question.

Mdl

Thanks, Bikemig. Will do. I’m very pleased!
Two things. The front derailer is sticking now and the cable now has slack in it. I tightened it and ride it, tried to shift but it’s still stuck and slacked out again.

In addition, while I was taking pictures, the wind blew it over an now the brake lever is scratched! Lol. I have to laugh or else cry right? Any tricks on smoothing out the scratch? Light sandpaper, for example?

Oh and here are some drivetrain pics.
Thanks!
Mike

bertinjim 

Mdl-

Your Belgian Bertin may be an equivalent model of the C 37 but C 37s in 1972-73 were made by Bernard Carre due to the old Bertin factory having been burnt down. They were decaled in French style transfers whereas your bike is Belgian in graphic style. It is quite possibly built with Reynolds "A" hi-tensile tubing which was often used by the Belgian factory, usually in a double butted version. The made up into quite a light frameset, usually within a pound of an equal sized full 531 frameset. When you tear down the bike to re-lube the bearings, look down the steerer tube to check for a seam. Do the same on the seat tube and the chainstays where they enter the BB shell. If seamed, then likely "A", if seamless then likely 531 as the seller mentioned.

The components look OEM except for the seat and wheels (likely tubulars originally) but SR Silstar and Sugino Maxy in a swaged 3 arm configuration were often used by Cycles Bertin Belgium as the OEM crankset.

EDIT: Mdl, your rear derailleur attachment claw is missing the retention bolt that holds it to the dropout. It is retained only by just the quick release and may move under pedal pressure . Please check.

The bike is in outstandingly good cosmetic condition and congratulations on the purchase!

Further info:

https://bertinclassiccycles.wordpres...lgian-bertins/

https://bertinclassiccycles.wordpress.com/tag/reynolds/

juvela

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Thanks so much for all of this great information Jim!

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Mdl -

missing bolt on hanger for rear mech may have been done intentionally so as to permit hub axle to move all the way to the rear of the axle slot

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sticky front mech -

this is Huret model 700 Luxe which launched 1966

when left idle for a period this linkage can stiffen up, usually only lubrication is needed

you may be able to free things up by loosening the pivot screws a bit and working some spray lubricant into the mechanism

if this does not do it it may be necessary to disassemble the mech for cleaning and lubrication; nothing will be worn out or broken

another possible cause for this symptom could be the gear cable corroding inside the cable casing



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two notes on chainset -

a) these early Sakae Ringyo sets with the swaged outer often come with thick chainwheel spacers to permit a rider to run the small/small gear combination without the chain rubbing on the inner face of the outer chainwheel

this leaves them vulnerable to derailments of the chain between chainwheels when shifting from large to small; avoid using a narrow drive chain in order to minimize this risk

b) also on these early sets with the swaged outer the taper for the mating of crank arm to spindle is often three degree rather than the industry standard two degree

if set is two degree the spindle will likely be marked 68S, 3S, 3SS or 3T

if set is three degree spindle will be marked something like 3S3 or 3K

dropouts -

Jim mentioned Bernard C.

found it interesting to note that these are the same model as employed on many Sauvage - Lejeune and Lejeune frames

have never known their name/maker; perhaps another reader will know...

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3alarmer 

Belgian Bertins

https://bertinclassiccycles.wordpres...de-in-belgium/
https://bertinclassiccycles.wordpres...dre-made-them/
https://bertinclassiccycles.wordpres...-models-types/

Mdl

I just saw this. Ok.