BikeFriday possible sale. Not a bike, the company.
10-16-19, 07:26 AM
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That has indeed changed the industry. BF has moved in that direction with several offerings (hub, mid-drive). But again, if people don't know about the product, they can't sell it. They Haul a Day is, imo, an amazing cargo bike with electric assist - carries as much as full sized cargo bikes with a smaller and easier to park footprint. But they just haven't been taking advantage of marketing exposure to compete with the top sellers. The folks I know who have HADs are always stopped by people asking about them - which shows there is interest there, but cargo bike purchasers absolutely want a shop where they can try the bike out and compare to other bikes. Their HAD is a better system than the Tern e-cargo bike and better priced, actually, but Tern is in stores and as a result sells better. Cargo bike owners don't typically shop for bikes online. BF biggest problem is lack of exposure and marketing. Their production system is much easier to remedy.
The second part of this is that the dealer don't feel supported. Not one person from BF does what the rest of the industry does which has reps who visit the stores. If you can't afford to support your dealers it's hard to compete.
Third, the warranty is too good for a retailer to want to support it. May sound nuts but some bikes like the tikit have a lifetime warranty. As a retailer that could mean handling the same bike many times over a 10-15-20 year span at great cost to them in shipping among many other services. BF just doesn't pencil out for retailers.
It's a great concept, great product and they have had many great designs that have been thrown to the side once Hans was gone due to ego, just hard facts. tikit is a great example of that but you could say the same for recumbents or even the Air Friday which really is a great bike if you understand it. I truly hope that they find a buyer but buyer beware, there are a lot of details that will need to be worked out in the sale of the business, make sure you are buying not just the name/business but also ensure all the tooling is worked into that deal as well. Details matter.
10-16-19, 07:30 AM
#27
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Do we really know the issues and needs at Bike Friday.
Is it possible that Alan Scholz simply wants to sell out his share for one reason or another, and that Hanna Scholz can't buy him out.
It sounds like they've also been trying to grow the company with new products (haul-a-day & pakiT). But, they may still be stuck with word of mouth advertising.
We have a LOT of Bike Fridays here in Eugene, but even so, I'm constantly telling people I meet that it is a Eugene product.
I wonder if they actually own their shop. That could be bad if they had an opportunity to buy the land 30 years ago and passed up on the opportunity. I'm pretty sure they did move about 25 years ago, so perhaps they purchased the current location.
No doubt there is also increased global competition. Hard to sell niche $2000 bikes with $300 bikes flooding the market.
Do they always have a queue? If that is the case, then sales isn't the issue, although they could likely increase production. Or is the problem a queue in the spring/summer, and idle machines in the winter?
In manufacturing, there is a "Just in time" approach. That can be difficult for a small shop.
However, if one considers a bike as a collection of parts, then one should still be able to stock up. Interchangeable parts have been important since Eli Whitney.
In theory they could make a collection of rear triangles, main frames, forks, seat masts, & wheels. The triangles/forks vary with brake types. Goosenecks could be stocked as straight pipe.
So, order comes in, one has frame subunits pre-assembled, and one simply powder coats and installs the subunits to the main frame. In theory one should be able to go from order to packing and shipping in 48 hours.
cross-training employees to weld up stock in the winter, and do assembly and finishing in the summer.
Of course, holding inventory is expensive for a number of reasons.
Is it possible that Alan Scholz simply wants to sell out his share for one reason or another, and that Hanna Scholz can't buy him out.
It sounds like they've also been trying to grow the company with new products (haul-a-day & pakiT). But, they may still be stuck with word of mouth advertising.
We have a LOT of Bike Fridays here in Eugene, but even so, I'm constantly telling people I meet that it is a Eugene product.
I wonder if they actually own their shop. That could be bad if they had an opportunity to buy the land 30 years ago and passed up on the opportunity. I'm pretty sure they did move about 25 years ago, so perhaps they purchased the current location.
No doubt there is also increased global competition. Hard to sell niche $2000 bikes with $300 bikes flooding the market.
Do they always have a queue? If that is the case, then sales isn't the issue, although they could likely increase production. Or is the problem a queue in the spring/summer, and idle machines in the winter?
In manufacturing, there is a "Just in time" approach. That can be difficult for a small shop.
However, if one considers a bike as a collection of parts, then one should still be able to stock up. Interchangeable parts have been important since Eli Whitney.
In theory they could make a collection of rear triangles, main frames, forks, seat masts, & wheels. The triangles/forks vary with brake types. Goosenecks could be stocked as straight pipe.
So, order comes in, one has frame subunits pre-assembled, and one simply powder coats and installs the subunits to the main frame. In theory one should be able to go from order to packing and shipping in 48 hours.
cross-training employees to weld up stock in the winter, and do assembly and finishing in the summer.
Of course, holding inventory is expensive for a number of reasons.
Come on white knight...ride in on your white Haul-a-Day and save the day!!!
10-16-19, 08:56 AM
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What is BikeFriday in 2019?
An adventure/travel bike company? (New World Tourist, Llama, Pocket Rocket, Two'sday)
A city bike company? (pakiT)
A cargo bike company? (Haul-a-day)
A special needs bike company? (Bantam)
A fleet bike company? (OSATA)
An e-bike company?
Wait, you're telling me this little company is all of the above?
Okay, Mr./Ms./Gender-neutral-honorific-title Marketing Manager with basically no budget, how do you reach your target audience(s)?
An adventure/travel bike company? (New World Tourist, Llama, Pocket Rocket, Two'sday)
A city bike company? (pakiT)
A cargo bike company? (Haul-a-day)
A special needs bike company? (Bantam)
A fleet bike company? (OSATA)
An e-bike company?
Wait, you're telling me this little company is all of the above?
Okay, Mr./Ms./Gender-neutral-honorific-title Marketing Manager with basically no budget, how do you reach your target audience(s)?
Likes For tcs:
10-16-19, 09:19 AM
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The biggest issue that BF has with retailers is pricing. Though they are cheaper than pretty much all the cargo bikes made, the retailer also makes much less as they don't get a very good discount for it to make logical sense. If they can get their profit margins in line with what everyone else is doing, they might have a chance.
The second part of this is that the dealer don't feel supported. Not one person from BF does what the rest of the industry does which has reps who visit the stores. If you can't afford to support your dealers it's hard to compete.
Third, the warranty is too good for a retailer to want to support it. May sound nuts but some bikes like the tikit have a lifetime warranty. As a retailer that could mean handling the same bike many times over a 10-15-20 year span at great cost to them in shipping among many other services. BF just doesn't pencil out for retailers.
It's a great concept, great product and they have had many great designs that have been thrown to the side once Hans was gone due to ego, just hard facts. tikit is a great example of that but you could say the same for recumbents or even the Air Friday which really is a great bike if you understand it. I truly hope that they find a buyer but buyer beware, there are a lot of details that will need to be worked out in the sale of the business, make sure you are buying not just the name/business but also ensure all the tooling is worked into that deal as well. Details matter.
The second part of this is that the dealer don't feel supported. Not one person from BF does what the rest of the industry does which has reps who visit the stores. If you can't afford to support your dealers it's hard to compete.
Third, the warranty is too good for a retailer to want to support it. May sound nuts but some bikes like the tikit have a lifetime warranty. As a retailer that could mean handling the same bike many times over a 10-15-20 year span at great cost to them in shipping among many other services. BF just doesn't pencil out for retailers.
It's a great concept, great product and they have had many great designs that have been thrown to the side once Hans was gone due to ego, just hard facts. tikit is a great example of that but you could say the same for recumbents or even the Air Friday which really is a great bike if you understand it. I truly hope that they find a buyer but buyer beware, there are a lot of details that will need to be worked out in the sale of the business, make sure you are buying not just the name/business but also ensure all the tooling is worked into that deal as well. Details matter.
Bike Friday, of course, needs to exploit the reasons a person might choose the Haul-a-Day over the Yuba.
The one British forum user that bought the Haul-a-Day apparently loves it because she was a smaller rider, and wished for a small cargo bike.
Nonetheless, cargo bikes are a large and expensive market. Motorized cargo bikes? There might not be a reason for a company not to make multiple models/sizes. Yes, tooling and setup??? They could even be sold independently under different brands if one wished.
A lifetime warranty is complex. Hopefully Bike Friday isn't getting too many bikes being returned for warranty work. Unless the Tikit is getting returns for something like the cable system. Do they all have cables? I suppose longterm support could be a reason to kill off a model.
I always expected that very few Schwinn Varsity bikes were ever returned for a replacement frame under their warranty (which I believe now is expired).
Nonetheless, perhaps there is a way to get money from a warranty claim. So, a repair from the manufacturer, but make sure that the remote shops are selling tires, tubes, tune-ups, etc.
10-16-19, 09:45 AM
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What is BikeFriday in 2019?
An adventure/travel bike company? (New World Tourist, Llama, Pocket Rocket, Two'sday)
A city bike company? (pakiT)
A cargo bike company? (Haul-a-day)
A special needs bike company? (Bantam)
A fleet bike company? (OSATA)
An e-bike company?
Wait, you're telling me this little company is all of the above?
Okay, Mr./Ms./Gender-neutral-honorific-title Marketing Manager with basically no budget, how do you reach your target audience(s)?
An adventure/travel bike company? (New World Tourist, Llama, Pocket Rocket, Two'sday)
A city bike company? (pakiT)
A cargo bike company? (Haul-a-day)
A special needs bike company? (Bantam)
A fleet bike company? (OSATA)
An e-bike company?
Wait, you're telling me this little company is all of the above?
Okay, Mr./Ms./Gender-neutral-honorific-title Marketing Manager with basically no budget, how do you reach your target audience(s)?
The bikes that pay the bills at BF are the higher-end bikes. They are priced in the realm that matches the skills of the builders best, unlike the Haul-a-Day/OSATA/Pakit bikes. Pocket Rockets and nicer NWT/Llama's are what pay the bills yet they want to focus on the bikes that make almost no money for the company. In the end...old habits are hard to break.
I will repeat it again...if you are even considering the purchase of this company...do it quickly!
10-16-19, 09:47 AM
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CliffordK...I am very familiar with the Yuba Mundo and the Haul-a-Day. My son spent his first few years on a Yuba. ;-)
Google Jarl and Yuba with Haul-a-Day...I know a thing or two about them both.
Google Jarl and Yuba with Haul-a-Day...I know a thing or two about them both.
10-16-19, 09:54 AM
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The high end NWT and LLama orders are not going to keep the company going - there's a limited market and it is not growing; I'd be willing to bet the secondary market is more active than the primary. The cargo bike/urban bike/electric bike market is the future. BF saw that and tried to respond but didn't go all in. They can get funding and management to either follow/lead the trend or they can pare down radically and revert to being a niche bike manufacturer for high-end custom travel folders. One means potential growth and jobs, the other means a minimal staff and jobs. I would hate to see them disappear; the folks I've had contact with during my BF purchases have been exceptional. I hope someone comes along with the $$$$ to keep them going in some form.
10-16-19, 10:00 AM
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10-16-19, 10:03 AM
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The only reason I say that is because currently, they are the only bikes they are able to make an actual profit on and are unlike any other folding bike in the world. I personally believe, if done right, the Haul-a-Day and the Oregon Traveller are what will make the company the most profit. It will take marketing effort to get there but I had already put some good time into that effort and was just waiting for the word go...which I never got. So many missed opportunities because they were not "ready" to make the leap. I had a functional Oregon Traveller sitting behind me at my desk for months just waiting...and waiting...and waiting. Shot video and photos of it in use, web page built and just needed some final touches to ensure we had all the facts straight about it(technical info that I just didn't know and could not get from anyone). To say the least...I was not the only one frustrated there with how things were run. This is why I will hold firm to the fact that BF does not NEED the Scholz family to keep going. I could see Hanna staying in a marketing/outreach role but that is about it. Being President of that company with Alan still involved is crushing her soul...literally. She is a very sweet person and needs to be in a role that fits her nature instead of fighting it each day.
10-16-19, 10:11 AM
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Obviously on the outside I haven't seen profit margins on each bike.
I'd have to wonder how much cheaper it is to make an OSATA frame than a Pocket Rocket frame. Is the different seatpost and other aspects more marketing than any actual cheap part?
Of course, groupsets and other finishing components can vary tremendously in cost, but I'm not sure could fully account for a $1000 vs $2000 bike.
I'd have to wonder how much cheaper it is to make an OSATA frame than a Pocket Rocket frame. Is the different seatpost and other aspects more marketing than any actual cheap part?
Of course, groupsets and other finishing components can vary tremendously in cost, but I'm not sure could fully account for a $1000 vs $2000 bike.
10-16-19, 10:14 AM
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Selling a business like this at a time like this is a hard thing. I felt really bad a couple years ago when legendary builder (of non-folding bikes) Bruce Gordon tried to sell his shop and couldn't find any buyers.
10-16-19, 10:31 AM
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What is BikeFriday in 2019?
An adventure/travel bike company? (New World Tourist, Llama, Pocket Rocket, Two'sday)
A city bike company? (pakiT)
A cargo bike company? (Haul-a-day)
A special needs bike company? (Bantam)
A fleet bike company? (OSATA)
An e-bike company?
Wait, you're telling me this little company is all of the above?
Okay, Mr./Ms./Gender-neutral-honorific-title Marketing Manager with basically no budget, how do you reach your target audience(s)?
An adventure/travel bike company? (New World Tourist, Llama, Pocket Rocket, Two'sday)
A city bike company? (pakiT)
A cargo bike company? (Haul-a-day)
A special needs bike company? (Bantam)
A fleet bike company? (OSATA)
An e-bike company?
Wait, you're telling me this little company is all of the above?
Okay, Mr./Ms./Gender-neutral-honorific-title Marketing Manager with basically no budget, how do you reach your target audience(s)?
Kid's bike company? If any can actually afford it?
I think all of their wheels fall in the 305 to 451 group. Mostly folders, although some that don't fold easily (OSATA/haul-a-day).
There is no reason why they couldn't make 700c sized bikes. Perhaps even selling them through a completely different marketing system, so few might even notice the cross-over.
Could they expand into the Rivendell market (which we all know also gets cash strapped this time of year). Perhaps even sell to Rivendell.
Yes, I know, brazing vs welding...
If they could get a solid pre-order, even if it is COD, they might be able to get the bank loans to do winter manufacturing.
10-16-19, 11:44 AM
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I love Bike Friday, however this is a really rough market. The trade war is a destabilizing force. Everyone is suffering.
I don't envision anyone buying BF in this market. I hope they will be ok....regardless it's time to order everything from BF. I'm thinking about a tandem.
Thanks
Yan
I don't envision anyone buying BF in this market. I hope they will be ok....regardless it's time to order everything from BF. I'm thinking about a tandem.
Thanks
Yan
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Designer of Downtube Folding Bike
Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
Last edited by downtube; 10-16-19 at 12:08 PM.
10-16-19, 01:06 PM
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I went to the Bike Friday page. No notes about selling the company or mergers on their web page, although they are trying to sell some of their "classics".
https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-b...s-to-the-world
I did find their Dealer page, and was moderately surprised at the number of dealers listed around the world including Europe and Japan, as well as a number scattered across the USA and up into Canada. Even Australia.
https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-bikes/dealers
Although, looking at the map there are quite a few gaps. For example nothing in London or Cambridge. Rome? Milano?
I wonder if they can ship in conex box quantities??
Of course, they may not wish to scare off potential customers with speculation of a future bankruptcy.
https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-b...s-to-the-world
I did find their Dealer page, and was moderately surprised at the number of dealers listed around the world including Europe and Japan, as well as a number scattered across the USA and up into Canada. Even Australia.
https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-bikes/dealers
Although, looking at the map there are quite a few gaps. For example nothing in London or Cambridge. Rome? Milano?
I wonder if they can ship in conex box quantities??
Of course, they may not wish to scare off potential customers with speculation of a future bankruptcy.
10-16-19, 01:59 PM
#40
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The bikes that pay the bills at BF are the higher-end bikes. They are priced in the realm that matches the skills of the builders best...Pocket Rockets and nicer NWT/Llamas...
The cargo bike/urban bike/electric bike market is the future.
1) BikeFriday: Custom adventure/travel folding bikes (Pocket Rocket, NWT, Llama, Two'sDay), intellectual property for Air Glide & Sat-R-Day.
2) Green Gear: Off-the-shelf save-the-world folding bikes (pakiT, Haul-a-day), intellectual property for tikit & Silk.
10-16-19, 02:15 PM
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It kinda sounds like rationale for selling the company in two pieces:
1) BikeFriday: Custom adventure/travel folding bikes (Pocket Rocket, NWT, Llama, Two'sDay), intellectual property for Air Glide & Sat-R-Day.
2) Green Gear: Off-the-shelf save-the-world folding bikes (pakiT, Haul-a-day), intellectual property for tikit & Silk.
1) BikeFriday: Custom adventure/travel folding bikes (Pocket Rocket, NWT, Llama, Two'sDay), intellectual property for Air Glide & Sat-R-Day.
2) Green Gear: Off-the-shelf save-the-world folding bikes (pakiT, Haul-a-day), intellectual property for tikit & Silk.
First of all, they have their entire store/shop/administration in a tiny building in West Eugene. Splitting the company would double the overhead.
Unless, they are growing to the point of needing a larger factory.
There is likely enough overlap between models that there is no reason to split.
Also, as suggested, perhaps use some of their motorized experience with the haul-a-day to explore motorizing more bikes. Rocket powered pocked rocket (well, not a real rocket).
I posted a link to resellers. So, I suppose the practical question is whether some resellers only pick and choose certain models. So, some might specialize in cargo bikes, and only sell the haul-a-day (plus Yuba, and a few European bikes).
Others might sell a full line of BF products, especially if it is done as custom orders.
My guess is there is also some overlap in tooling for things like rear triangles and forks, even if there may be some differences in tubes and welding.
10-16-19, 05:03 PM
#42
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Fair enough, but before they commit to inventory, those various resellers will require robust marketing support for the company's brand image and all those different models aimed at disparate user communities, and there'll need to be a better plan than Underpants Gnomes to pay for it.
https://vimeo.com/79954057
https://vimeo.com/79954057
10-16-19, 05:23 PM
#43
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Looking at Bike Friday from the outside as far as manufacturing goes the proprietary products are only the frames, so raw materials, subcontracted fabricated parts, and components are the price variables in manufacturing. the constants are labor (the most expensive labor is the weldor as he is the most skilled of in house tallent) and overhead the same as any business.
There is a time for expansion and a time for contraction, both are critical to survival and profitability of any business. knowing when to act and in which direction is best done with an accountant to see where your trending and a close look at the industry to see how everyone else is doing.
A few of the folks that have gotten out of the bicycle business are True Temper in mid 2016, American Classic in early 2018, and ASE filled for chapter 11 (Performance Bicycle and Nashbar) in 2018.
If it were me, I would concentrate on the most profitable product lines, shelf the models that are not helping the situation, store the tooling or make them custom order only and charge accordingly. Sometimes handing over control of a business to others will only hasten the end. I feel it's better to get small and ride out the storm.
Best Wishes: Mike
There is a time for expansion and a time for contraction, both are critical to survival and profitability of any business. knowing when to act and in which direction is best done with an accountant to see where your trending and a close look at the industry to see how everyone else is doing.
A few of the folks that have gotten out of the bicycle business are True Temper in mid 2016, American Classic in early 2018, and ASE filled for chapter 11 (Performance Bicycle and Nashbar) in 2018.
If it were me, I would concentrate on the most profitable product lines, shelf the models that are not helping the situation, store the tooling or make them custom order only and charge accordingly. Sometimes handing over control of a business to others will only hasten the end. I feel it's better to get small and ride out the storm.
Best Wishes: Mike
10-16-19, 08:12 PM
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Frames will be printed in the future. Hence their manufacturing is behind the times. I think they are stuck in no man's land.
Thanks
Yan
Thanks
Yan
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Designer of Downtube Folding Bike
Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
10-16-19, 08:28 PM
#45
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Reinforced resin is still the big thing.
I have thought the next big thing will be monocoque woven fibers, but we're not quite there yet.
Nonetheless, Bike Friday has chosen to continue making chromoly steel frames, while some competing manufactures have moved to aluminum, or hydroformed aluminum. Of course, some of those manufacturers have also had frame failures at the mid-joint.
Bike Friday's bikes are still solid, viable bikes, and will remain so long into the future.
Perhaps an advertising issue that steel can be made a light as aluminum? Need to embrace newer (and more expensive) steels?
10-16-19, 08:46 PM
#46
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Keep in mind that most of their sales are semi-custom, and at least used to include things like a full custom gooseneck once the customer was happy with a temporary stem shipped with the bike.
Keep in mind that Burley was a Eugene, made in the USA cooperative that was sold out and became an importer. Of course, demands and competition in the trailer business likely changed significantly over the years.
Nonetheless, the right partner could take the company in unexpected directions.
I wonder if there would be a possibility for a partnership with a moderately unrelated business like Co-Motion. Have they explored the possibility?
I also think that our local bike co-op may be slowly collapsing.
While a non-profit and a for-profit may not join, it is possible that Bike Friday could pick up some of the co-ops former product lines (or at least design similar products).
10-16-19, 09:12 PM
#47
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Stranger things have happened. In my industry (office equipment) two struggling firms within the same business space, Konica and Minolta, joined forces to become Konica-Minolta and the sum is indeed a greater market player then they were separately.
I’m not suggesting that BF and Riv need to merge, but some form of cooperative partnership could benefit both.
Last edited by FolderBeholder; 10-16-19 at 09:18 PM.
10-16-19, 09:25 PM
#48
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Last edited by tcs; 10-16-19 at 09:34 PM.
10-16-19, 09:28 PM
#49
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The two different tikit structural failures (seatmast & handlepost) weren't the fault of steel any more than the Tern frame failures were the fault of aluminum; all were design issues. To think you are exempt from issues solely because you're building with steel is (dangerously, as some tikit owners found out) naive.
Last edited by tcs; 10-17-19 at 07:59 AM.
10-16-19, 09:30 PM
#50
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They can print titanium as large as 14"*14" pieces. It's happening.
Thanks
Yan
Thanks
Yan
__________________
Designer of Downtube Folding Bike
Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
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Designer of Downtube Folding Bike
Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
