Hydraulics
11-08-19, 11:09 AM
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Good luck with that "alloy" thing, guys. People have been using it as shorthand for "aluminum alloy" for at least 50 years, by my reckoning. 
11-08-19, 09:34 PM
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11-09-19, 07:14 AM
#28
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Fun fact. You need a liquid to run hydraulic brakes. Water might not work as well as mineral oil but it would work.
In the 90s, a friend of mine filled his Magura rim brakes with Windex. No, I don't know why.
They stopped fine. Im not sure how long he left them like that. It certainly isn't ideal but it worked because of the moving of fluids. Fluids are Hydraulic.
Had he filled his brake lines with carrots and a few pages of Steinbeck, the bike wouldn't have stopped. Books and Carrots are not hydraulic.
In the 90s, a friend of mine filled his Magura rim brakes with Windex. No, I don't know why.
They stopped fine. Im not sure how long he left them like that. It certainly isn't ideal but it worked because of the moving of fluids. Fluids are Hydraulic.
Had he filled his brake lines with carrots and a few pages of Steinbeck, the bike wouldn't have stopped. Books and Carrots are not hydraulic.
11-09-19, 10:53 AM
#29
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A 6061 (etc) bike frame (or bike part) is an alloy though. To be precise it is a "6061 aluminum alloy". Thus calling it alloy, or aluminum, or alloy aluminum, or 6061 aluminum, or a 6061 alloy are all correct. You don't want a pure aluminum bike frame!
the following information came from dictionary and Wikipedia. Also having worked in the industry producing 6061, 6063, 6063A, A383 etc, alloy is the correct term. Fe, Si, Cu, Mn, Mg, Cr, Zn etc.... are all parts of aluminum alloys. We mostly produced 383 for 2 huge manufactures for dye cast alloy parts.
Alloy =
al·loynounnoun: alloy; plural noun: alloys/ˈaˌloi/
the following information came from dictionary and Wikipedia. Also having worked in the industry producing 6061, 6063, 6063A, A383 etc, alloy is the correct term. Fe, Si, Cu, Mn, Mg, Cr, Zn etc.... are all parts of aluminum alloys. We mostly produced 383 for 2 huge manufactures for dye cast alloy parts.
Alloy =
al·loynounnoun: alloy; plural noun: alloys/ˈaˌloi/
- a metal made by combining two or more metallic elements, especially to give greater strength or resistance to corrosion."an alloy of nickel, bronze, and zinc"
- mix (metals) to make an alloy."alloying tin with copper to make bronze"
________________________________________________________________________________
The International Alloy Designation System is the most widely accepted naming scheme for wrought alloys. Each alloy is given a four-digit number, where the first digit indicates the major alloying elements, the second — if different from 0 — indicates a variation of the alloy, and the third and fourth digits identify the specific alloy in the series. For example, in alloy 3105, the number 3 indicates the alloy is in the manganese series, 1 indicates the first modification of alloy 3005, and finally 05 identifies it in the 3000 series.[7]
1000 series are essentially pure aluminium with a minimum 99% aluminium content by weight and can be work hardened. 2000 series are alloyed with copper, can be precipitation hardened to strengths comparable to steel. Formerly referred to as duralumin, they were once the most common aerospace alloys, but were susceptible to stress corrosion cracking and are increasingly replaced by 7000 series in new designs. 3000 series are alloyed with manganese, and can be work hardened. 4000 series are alloyed with silicon. Variations of aluminium-silicon alloys intended for casting (and therefore not included in 4000 series) are also known as silumin. 5000 series are alloyed with magnesium, and offer superb corrosion resistance, making them suitable for marine applications. Also, 5083 alloy has the highest strength of not heat-treated alloys. Most 5000 series alloys include manganese as well. 6000 series are alloyed with magnesium and silicon. They are easy to machine, are weldable, and can be precipitation hardened, but not to the high strengths that 2000 and 7000 can reach. 6061 alloy is one of the most commonly used general-purpose aluminium alloys. 7000 series are alloyed with zinc, and can be precipitation hardened to the highest strengths of any aluminium alloy (ultimate tensile strength up to 700 MPa for the 7068 alloy). Most 7000 series alloys include magnesium and copper as well. 8000 series are alloyed with other elements which are not covered by other series. Aluminium-lithium alloys are an example.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________
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11-09-19, 11:02 AM
#30
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"Groupset" at least is progress. I cringe when people use the term "Groupo" It's not so bad when they use Italian slang to refer to Campy components.
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My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
11-09-19, 11:13 AM
#31
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Because the 'alloy' of iron and carbon is known as "steel", or carbon steel.
when we start adding other elements it becomes known as alloy steel. Which is typically called by name. chromoly, stainless, Reynolds, etc....
Universal language, walk into any American car dealership and ask for car with alloy wheels, and it will be aluminum wheels. (unless they ride bicycles, then who knows what you'll get!! )
which is why I asked about hydraulics being called "Hydro" here. Hydraulic isn't typically referred to as hydro outside of the bicycle consumerism.
when we start adding other elements it becomes known as alloy steel. Which is typically called by name. chromoly, stainless, Reynolds, etc....
Universal language, walk into any American car dealership and ask for car with alloy wheels, and it will be aluminum wheels. (unless they ride bicycles, then who knows what you'll get!! )
which is why I asked about hydraulics being called "Hydro" here. Hydraulic isn't typically referred to as hydro outside of the bicycle consumerism.
11-09-19, 03:58 PM
#32
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Owing to the MTB origin, there is a 'Dude' factor in the name to refer to them, as opposed to rim brakes, or even mechanical disk brakes.
As in: "Dude, sweet Hydros!"
You just want to argue then.
PS: They don't brake from the drops either.
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11-09-19, 06:13 PM
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Seriously, is anyone actually getting confused by the uses of hydro and alloy?I
I'm much more annoyed by the use of the word "resin" instead of "plastic" . That's a pretty clear marketing euphemism.
11-09-19, 06:46 PM
#34
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Language is never changing and fluid(some may say its 'hydro'). As such, terms used to describe an object or idea may be different than what that term has historically meant. Also, a word used in common language may mean something different than that same word used by healthcare professionals or engineers.
Steel means frames made of metal alloy that a magnet sticks to and has been a frame material since the 19th century.
Alloy means frames made of aluminum alloy.
It's really quite simple to understand, and demanding everyone change just because it isnt correct from an engineer's perspective is quite arrogant and annoying. Everyone I know that has an aluminum bike knows it's an aluminum bike. There is no confusion if I refer to their frame as alloy. Also, there is no confusion when I refer to all my frames as steel.
No confusion exists because we all accept the terms being used in a different way than an engineer at work.
It's a simple way to designate one frame material from another.
Keep tilting at those windmills.
11-10-19, 10:51 AM
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I just googles both "resin" and "plastic" I don't think the words are synonyms but I honestly really don't know. The most interesting thing I found is there are 7 different types of plastic of which one is "other".
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11-10-19, 12:25 PM
#37
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Thermoplastics are things like polyethylene, polypropylene, PET, PTFE, etc. Thermosets are things like phenol/formaldehyde resins (Bakelite), many elastomers like rubber, epoxy resins.
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11-10-19, 03:18 PM
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I have a set of cheap Tektro hydraulic (hydros apparently) on my 2013 hardtail. I use the bike for year round riding, and for unfavorable conditions. Like when it is 10 below, with bar mitts. muddy, extreme dusty gravel rides, rain, salt, slush,
I have never bled them, the only time I had to mess with them other than changing pads was when I swapped from a 160 to a 180 rotor. because I ride in the winter grime, they get contaminated and I usually swap pads once a year.
So 6 years no adjustments, no malfunctions, they just work.
all it takes to swap pads, is one bolt. it's a 5 min job to do both the front and rear.
11-10-19, 06:31 PM
#39
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There is a difference between “resin” and ”plastic”. While both are polymeric organic compounds, their properties are generally different. Thermoplastics...which is what most people refer to as “plastic”...are polymers that can be reheated and reformed endlessly. Thermosetting plastics...resins...are polymers that are heated to form them but once formed they can’t be remelted and reformed. Heating them usually causes them to become more densely crosslinked. They also tend to decompose when heated.
Thermoplastics are things like polyethylene, polypropylene, PET, PTFE, etc. Thermosets are things like phenol/formaldehyde resins (Bakelite), many elastomers like rubber, epoxy resins.
Thermoplastics are things like polyethylene, polypropylene, PET, PTFE, etc. Thermosets are things like phenol/formaldehyde resins (Bakelite), many elastomers like rubber, epoxy resins.
Well, technically, your post identifies both as types of plastics, and while common usage would never identify tire rubber as a plastic, I think virtually everyone would call Bakelite a plastic.
The usages of "resins" that have annoyed me in particular have been for pedals and fenders.
11-10-19, 07:24 PM
#40
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Many disciplines have their own variations in terminology.
11-10-19, 07:34 PM
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I’ve never heard anyone refer to fenders as being made from “resins”. You are correct to say that it is wrong to say that pedals are resinous. All of the plastic pedals I’ve seen are made of thermoplastics, probably polyethylene as are most fenders.
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11-10-19, 09:08 PM
#42
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Consider also the origin of hydraulic bicycle (disk) brakes; it's an MTB technology; Downhill racing in particular, an adaptation/evolution of motocross/'dirt-bike' tech.
Owing to the MTB origin, there is a 'Dude' factor in the name to refer to them, as opposed to rim brakes, or even mechanical disk brakes.
As in: "Dude, sweet Hydros!"
You just want to argue then.
PS: They don't brake from the drops either.
Owing to the MTB origin, there is a 'Dude' factor in the name to refer to them, as opposed to rim brakes, or even mechanical disk brakes.
As in: "Dude, sweet Hydros!"
You just want to argue then.
PS: They don't brake from the drops either.
11-11-19, 06:10 AM
#43
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Rubber and elastomers are certainly plastics. They can be formed and molded. The problem with “common usage” is that it is often wrong. As chemists we differentiate between thermoplastic and thermoset plastic because they have different properties. They seem the same but there are major differences.
I’ve never heard anyone refer to fenders as being made from “resins”. You are correct to say that it is wrong to say that pedals are resinous. All of the plastic pedals I’ve seen are made of thermoplastics, probably polyethylene as are most fenders.
I’ve never heard anyone refer to fenders as being made from “resins”. You are correct to say that it is wrong to say that pedals are resinous. All of the plastic pedals I’ve seen are made of thermoplastics, probably polyethylene as are most fenders.
https://www.amazon.com/Avenir-67-27-.../dp/B002BVXZ5I
11-11-19, 07:26 AM
#44
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The hydraulic brakes feel really nice but I still like the simplicity of cable brakes and I can fix cable brakes when I’m out in the woods or in the middle of nowhere. Not so easy with hydraulic. I also don’t care much for electronic shifting ether!
11-11-19, 08:10 AM
#45
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Is it February already?
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11-11-19, 08:28 AM
#46
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Last edited by livedarklions; 11-11-19 at 08:44 AM.
11-11-19, 12:44 PM
#47
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11-11-19, 02:10 PM
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I take it your car has cable brakes?
11-11-19, 02:26 PM
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