Show me classic brevet bikes with 38C tires
09-15-16, 10:43 PM
#26
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That explains a lot. 
I've read some of his writings but none of his books. I find his POV entertaining and amusing and occasionally insightful. While I've never been one to drink the kool aid, so to speak, I'm still appreciative of his contributions.
OT but I once spent several months obsessing over the Duomo and trying to figure out the secret method.
I've read some of his writings but none of his books. I find his POV entertaining and amusing and occasionally insightful. While I've never been one to drink the kool aid, so to speak, I'm still appreciative of his contributions.OT but I once spent several months obsessing over the Duomo and trying to figure out the secret method.
For those wondering what the fuss about "il duomo"...
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
09-16-16, 12:57 AM
#28
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The latest thing I've seen here is "Design made in germany" or "Made with german standards" (in china). Even distilled water has a huge badge saying "Quality Made in Germany". They do make good things, but this obsession is borderline hilarious. Amazing country to cycle though, specially the south. I can only recommend it.
People here tend to use race bikes with skinny tires (25c, maybe the occasional 28c). You also see recumbents. Usually cargo is carried in (most often) a single pannier in the back or (less often) two panniers plus a handlebar bag of the klick-fix type. I see a lot of people without fenders.
For me it makes sense. I'm pretty young (both in chronological age (26) and in cycling age) and so I never really tried a lot of bicycles. But my first bike ever was a dumpster find with cottered cranks and remotely french looking. I cleaned it, fixed it and rode my first ever solo 100km with it and fell in love with the sport. I don't fell the same when I look at a modern aggressive carbon bike. The french knew their stuff.
I love Chapman's bikes, but there are a couple of issues for me. #1 It's on the other side of Atlantic and that means I would probably not be able to both meet the builder and do a proper fitting before the build. #2 taxes and shipping will inflate the price. My budget for the frame is around 1800€.
The mates are not confused about the build. I guess they are confused because I said I wanted a more sporty-handling bike (as opposed to a very stable touring bike meant to carry a huge load, I will never ride this bike with more than 10kg) AND big tires. They didn't say it was impossible or difficult to find a geometry that would work, they simply don't understand exactly what I want, hence my call for pictures. I would love to have a french inspired 650B, but I don't trust this whole 650B fad yet and will wait and see a couple more years.
I'm getting a Velogical rim dynamo (made in germany
) for my humble commuter and, if I like it, will also get it for my randonneur. On my current bike, a Faggin with cantis, I sometimes use a wheelset with a shimano dynohub but I would like to have a full dura-ace 7900 wheelset on my new bike and for that I need an alternative generator.
It's still not set in stone though, first I need to get the bike
@Everyone else: thanks for the bike pics. the Raleigh is lovely!
People here tend to use race bikes with skinny tires (25c, maybe the occasional 28c). You also see recumbents. Usually cargo is carried in (most often) a single pannier in the back or (less often) two panniers plus a handlebar bag of the klick-fix type. I see a lot of people without fenders.
It's odd that the Europeans are looking to the US builders for randonneuring bike design. People like Peter Weigle, Jan Heine and others studied those old French constructeurs, just as Brunelleschi studied Roman ruins before designing the Duomo in Florence.
@mariachi, if your English builder is confused about your request, I'd find another builder. If you can't find one in Europe, contact some American builders that know and understand this style. I have no idea of your budget, but some great American builders are listed here:
M.A.P. Cycles
Lyonsport
Norther Cycles
Chapman Cycles
@mariachi, if your English builder is confused about your request, I'd find another builder. If you can't find one in Europe, contact some American builders that know and understand this style. I have no idea of your budget, but some great American builders are listed here:
M.A.P. Cycles
Lyonsport
Norther Cycles
Chapman Cycles
For me it makes sense. I'm pretty young (both in chronological age (26) and in cycling age) and so I never really tried a lot of bicycles. But my first bike ever was a dumpster find with cottered cranks and remotely french looking. I cleaned it, fixed it and rode my first ever solo 100km with it and fell in love with the sport. I don't fell the same when I look at a modern aggressive carbon bike. The french knew their stuff.
I love Chapman's bikes, but there are a couple of issues for me. #1 It's on the other side of Atlantic and that means I would probably not be able to both meet the builder and do a proper fitting before the build. #2 taxes and shipping will inflate the price. My budget for the frame is around 1800€.
The mates are not confused about the build. I guess they are confused because I said I wanted a more sporty-handling bike (as opposed to a very stable touring bike meant to carry a huge load, I will never ride this bike with more than 10kg) AND big tires. They didn't say it was impossible or difficult to find a geometry that would work, they simply don't understand exactly what I want, hence my call for pictures. I would love to have a french inspired 650B, but I don't trust this whole 650B fad yet and will wait and see a couple more years.
I'm getting a Velogical rim dynamo (made in germany
) for my humble commuter and, if I like it, will also get it for my randonneur. On my current bike, a Faggin with cantis, I sometimes use a wheelset with a shimano dynohub but I would like to have a full dura-ace 7900 wheelset on my new bike and for that I need an alternative generator.It's still not set in stone though, first I need to get the bike
@Everyone else: thanks for the bike pics. the Raleigh is lovely!
09-16-16, 08:17 AM
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[IMG]
[/IMG]
The bike I grab most often fits your description pretty well. Its an 81 Centurion, fits 38's. Mostly use it when I don't know what kind of road surface I will be on. Not the best picture, but proves that you can hang with modern bikes on an antique.
On the day this picture was taken, I should have ridden a 23mm tire bike.
[/IMG]The bike I grab most often fits your description pretty well. Its an 81 Centurion, fits 38's. Mostly use it when I don't know what kind of road surface I will be on. Not the best picture, but proves that you can hang with modern bikes on an antique.
On the day this picture was taken, I should have ridden a 23mm tire bike.
09-16-16, 08:24 AM
#30
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People here tend to use race bikes with skinny tires (25c, maybe the occasional 28c). You also see recumbents. Usually cargo is carried in (most often) a single pannier in the back or (less often) two panniers plus a handlebar bag of the klick-fix type. I see a lot of people without fenders.
For me it makes sense. I'm pretty young (both in chronological age (26) and in cycling age) and so I never really tried a lot of bicycles. But my first bike ever was a dumpster find with cottered cranks and remotely french looking. I cleaned it, fixed it and rode my first ever solo 100km with it and fell in love with the sport. I don't fell the same when I look at a modern aggressive carbon bike. The french knew their stuff.
I love Chapman's bikes, but there are a couple of issues for me. #1 It's on the other side of Atlantic and that means I would probably not be able to both meet the builder and do a proper fitting before the build. #2 taxes and shipping will inflate the price. My budget for the frame is around 1800€.
The mates are not confused about the build. I guess they are confused because I said I wanted a more sporty-handling bike (as opposed to a very stable touring bike meant to carry a huge load, I will never ride this bike with more than 10kg) AND big tires. They didn't say it was impossible or difficult to find a geometry that would work, they simply don't understand exactly what I want, hence my call for pictures. I would love to have a french inspired 650B, but I don't trust this whole 650B fad yet and will wait and see a couple more years.
I'm getting a Velogical rim dynamo (made in germany) for my humble commuter and, if I like it, will also get it for my randonneur. On my current bike, a Faggin with cantis, I sometimes use a wheelset with a shimano dynohub but I would like to have a full dura-ace 7900 wheelset on my new bike and for that I need an alternative generator.
It's still not set in stone though, first I need to get the bike
@Everyone else: thanks for the bike pics. the Raleigh is lovely!
For me it makes sense. I'm pretty young (both in chronological age (26) and in cycling age) and so I never really tried a lot of bicycles. But my first bike ever was a dumpster find with cottered cranks and remotely french looking. I cleaned it, fixed it and rode my first ever solo 100km with it and fell in love with the sport. I don't fell the same when I look at a modern aggressive carbon bike. The french knew their stuff.
I love Chapman's bikes, but there are a couple of issues for me. #1 It's on the other side of Atlantic and that means I would probably not be able to both meet the builder and do a proper fitting before the build. #2 taxes and shipping will inflate the price. My budget for the frame is around 1800€.
The mates are not confused about the build. I guess they are confused because I said I wanted a more sporty-handling bike (as opposed to a very stable touring bike meant to carry a huge load, I will never ride this bike with more than 10kg) AND big tires. They didn't say it was impossible or difficult to find a geometry that would work, they simply don't understand exactly what I want, hence my call for pictures. I would love to have a french inspired 650B, but I don't trust this whole 650B fad yet and will wait and see a couple more years.
I'm getting a Velogical rim dynamo (made in germany
) for my humble commuter and, if I like it, will also get it for my randonneur. On my current bike, a Faggin with cantis, I sometimes use a wheelset with a shimano dynohub but I would like to have a full dura-ace 7900 wheelset on my new bike and for that I need an alternative generator.It's still not set in stone though, first I need to get the bike
@Everyone else: thanks for the bike pics. the Raleigh is lovely!
The Velogical rim dynamo is a wonderful, little thing, but my understanding is that power output is not nearly what the hub dynamos can do.
More inspirational sources:
J.P. Weigle
Riding to the Bicycle Quarterly un-meeting this summer:
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
09-16-16, 08:47 AM
#31
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The mates are not confused about the build. I guess they are confused because I said I wanted a more sporty-handling bike (as opposed to a very stable touring bike meant to carry a huge load, I will never ride this bike with more than 10kg) AND big tires. They didn't say it was impossible or difficult to find a geometry that would work, they simply don't understand exactly what I want, hence my call for pictures. I would love to have a french inspired 650B, but I don't trust this whole 650B fad yet and will wait and see a couple more years
It sounds like for them it would be an experiment. Do you want to be their Guinea pig?
09-16-16, 09:13 AM
#32
Senior Member
The mates are not confused about the build. I guess they are confused because I said I wanted a more sporty-handling bike (as opposed to a very stable touring bike meant to carry a huge load, I will never ride this bike with more than 10kg) AND big tires. They didn't say it was impossible or difficult to find a geometry that would work, they simply don't understand exactly what I want, hence my call for pictures. I would love to have a french inspired 650B, but I don't trust this whole 650B fad yet and will wait and see a couple more years.
700c is great, but as others have indicated, you (or the builder) can easily open a can of worms if you would like to fit wide tires, especially if you want to prevent the dreaded "toe-strike" at low speeds which is easy to do with 38mm tires and fenders depending on the frame size. It can be done but compromises in the steering/handling department might need to be made which could bring disappointments to the end-user. Wide tires on a larger wheel size affect tremendously the feel of the bike -- i.e., it will no longer feel too "sportive".
650b size wheels (AKA 584mm) is what builders mainly in North America prefer to use for the classic "sportive" rando/brevet bikes. It makes sense given that you can easily fit ~42mm tires with fenders. But finding replacement tires outside of the U.S. and France can be really tricky, to say the least. You just need to plan on having an extra pair of tires in your personal stock. Builders tend to go with what they call a "low trail" front geometry which improves the steering dramatically with the load of front bags or handlebar bags randonneurs usually use on their brevets to easily access their food and other essentials. In Europe, I would be looking at French builders for this sort of bike who have an in-depth understanding and sensibility for this type of bikes.
26" wheels (559mm) - If you don't feel confident about the 650b wheel size, this is a very good alternative. Tires are available anywhere in the world, so this is good if you think you might want to travel one day to participate in brevets in other parts of the world as shops will easily carry spares. Just don't try to look for really skinny tires as they're not so easy to find and don't expect anyone in the brevet to carry 26" spare tubes or tires. Having said this, wider tires seem to be exceptionally more resistant to flats. For randonneuring purposes, 1.5"-1.75" tire width (40mm to 47mm) seems to be the happy medium for speed and comfort. A good builder can very much build it as a 650b bike to make it feel nimble with the traditional front/handlebar bag and you will not have no issues of toe-strike even if you would like to go crazy with much wider tires. The added bonus is that a smart build with this wheel size can easily double as a touring bike if one day you change your mind and would like to explore parts of the world with it.
It is so that we decided to go with 26" wheels on our retro randonneur custom builds:
The red bike above took me successfully over the finish line at the 2015 Paris-Brest-Paris (1,230 Km < 90 hrs)
:
09-16-16, 10:36 AM
#33
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The latest thing I've seen here is "Design made in germany" or "Made with german standards" (in china). Even distilled water has a huge badge saying "Quality Made in Germany". They do make good things, but this obsession is borderline hilarious. Amazing country to cycle though, specially the south. I can only recommend it.
I was only in Germany for a month or so, back in 1988. Spent it driving around the countryside in Southern Germany- I remember how beautiful it was.
One of my "someday" adventures is to do a European/French/Normandy/Brittany bicycle tour.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
09-16-16, 11:19 AM
#34
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I had the same dilemma regarding tire width and wheel size. I researched this extensively a few years ago for a couple of custom builds of my own (one for my partner and one for me.) This is what I found out:
700c is great, but as others have indicated, you (or the builder) can easily open a can of worms if you would like to fit wide tires, especially if you want to prevent the dreaded "toe-strike" at low speeds which is easy to do with 38mm tires and fenders depending on the frame size. It can be done but compromises in the steering/handling department might need to be made which could bring disappointments to the end-user. Wide tires on a larger wheel size affect tremendously the feel of the bike -- i.e., it will no longer feel too "sportive".
650b size wheels (AKA 584mm) is what builders mainly in North America prefer to use for the classic "sportive" rando/brevet bikes. It makes sense given that you can easily fit ~42mm tires with fenders. But finding replacement tires outside of the U.S. and France can be really tricky, to say the least. You just need to plan on having an extra pair of tires in your personal stock. Builders tend to go with what they call a "low trail" front geometry which improves the steering dramatically with the load of front bags or handlebar bags randonneurs usually use on their brevets to easily access their food and other essentials. In Europe, I would be looking at French builders for this sort of bike who have an in-depth understanding and sensibility for this type of bikes.
26" wheels (559mm) - If you don't feel confident about the 650b wheel size, this is a very good alternative. Tires are available anywhere in the world, so this is good if you think you might want to travel one day to participate in brevets in other parts of the world as shops will easily carry spares. Just don't try to look for really skinny tires as they're not so easy to find and don't expect anyone in the brevet to carry 26" spare tubes or tires. Having said this, wider tires seem to be exceptionally more resistant to flats. For randonneuring purposes, 1.5"-1.75" tire width (40mm to 47mm) seems to be the happy medium for speed and comfort. A good builder can very much build it as a 650b bike to make it feel nimble with the traditional front/handlebar bag and you will not have no issues of toe-strike even if you would like to go crazy with much wider tires. The added bonus is that a smart build with this wheel size can easily double as a touring bike if one day you change your mind and would like to explore parts of the world with it.
It is so that we decided to go with 26" wheels on our retro randonneur custom builds:
The red bike above took me successfully over the finish line at the 2015 Paris-Brest-Paris (1,230 Km < 90 hrs):
700c is great, but as others have indicated, you (or the builder) can easily open a can of worms if you would like to fit wide tires, especially if you want to prevent the dreaded "toe-strike" at low speeds which is easy to do with 38mm tires and fenders depending on the frame size. It can be done but compromises in the steering/handling department might need to be made which could bring disappointments to the end-user. Wide tires on a larger wheel size affect tremendously the feel of the bike -- i.e., it will no longer feel too "sportive".
650b size wheels (AKA 584mm) is what builders mainly in North America prefer to use for the classic "sportive" rando/brevet bikes. It makes sense given that you can easily fit ~42mm tires with fenders. But finding replacement tires outside of the U.S. and France can be really tricky, to say the least. You just need to plan on having an extra pair of tires in your personal stock. Builders tend to go with what they call a "low trail" front geometry which improves the steering dramatically with the load of front bags or handlebar bags randonneurs usually use on their brevets to easily access their food and other essentials. In Europe, I would be looking at French builders for this sort of bike who have an in-depth understanding and sensibility for this type of bikes.
26" wheels (559mm) - If you don't feel confident about the 650b wheel size, this is a very good alternative. Tires are available anywhere in the world, so this is good if you think you might want to travel one day to participate in brevets in other parts of the world as shops will easily carry spares. Just don't try to look for really skinny tires as they're not so easy to find and don't expect anyone in the brevet to carry 26" spare tubes or tires. Having said this, wider tires seem to be exceptionally more resistant to flats. For randonneuring purposes, 1.5"-1.75" tire width (40mm to 47mm) seems to be the happy medium for speed and comfort. A good builder can very much build it as a 650b bike to make it feel nimble with the traditional front/handlebar bag and you will not have no issues of toe-strike even if you would like to go crazy with much wider tires. The added bonus is that a smart build with this wheel size can easily double as a touring bike if one day you change your mind and would like to explore parts of the world with it.
It is so that we decided to go with 26" wheels on our retro randonneur custom builds:
The red bike above took me successfully over the finish line at the 2015 Paris-Brest-Paris (1,230 Km < 90 hrs)
:And I can't even access your pics from work (blocked by employeer), but I'm sure I'll comment more when I get home to look at them.
Edit: Wow, nice rides, both of them!
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Last edited by gugie; 09-16-16 at 04:59 PM.
09-16-16, 11:20 AM
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Me too!
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
09-16-16, 12:46 PM
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Germany has a long craftsman tradition going back at least to the Middle Ages. They were famous all over Europe as experts in steel, ceramics, glass, chemicals, and many other mediums, and when they industrialized in the 19th century they kept this tradition of quality.
09-16-16, 02:36 PM
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26" is a pretty evergreen wheel standard, so I'd feel pretty confident speccing a bike around it. And with Compass's latest offerings, you can get fat/supple/light/fast tires for it. Buy a few spares and keep 'em in the freezer if you're concerned.
09-17-16, 02:27 AM
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so everyone's general consensus is "don't do it", right? I would also be happy with 35C tires, narrower and I will be underbiking a lot of the time. Most brevets here (if not all) are on asphalt and the occasional forest road but usually fine gravel. I tend to find a lot of coarser gravel when riding on my own though, and my current bike with 28C Gravel Kings just doesn't cut it.
09-17-16, 04:52 AM
#39
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so everyone's general consensus is "don't do it", right? I would also be happy with 35C tires, narrower and I will be underbiking a lot of the time. Most brevets here (if not all) are on asphalt and the occasional forest road but usually fine gravel. I tend to find a lot of coarser gravel when riding on my own though, and my current bike with 28C Gravel Kings just doesn't cut it.
By the way, a good builder not comfortable with a client's odd requests will end up walking away from the business. This goes to you too, as you should gauge in your communications with him how enthusiastic/confident he is about delivering your vision. Maybe he simply lacks the expertise with such design and the last thing either party wants is to mark his reputation. That happened to me with my 26” wheel rando bike. The first builder I interviewed several years ago entertained the idea for a week or so. One day I got an email advising that he wasn't comfortable building a rando bike around 26” wheels. This was in spite of his 40+ years of experience. He thought it was an odd design and walked away. I continued my search and found another builder who loved my project. In the end, he delivered and I couldn't be happier!
Last edited by Chris Pringle; 09-17-16 at 05:04 AM.
09-17-16, 05:39 AM
#40
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By the way, a good builder not comfortable with a client's odd requests will end up walking away from the business. This goes to you too, as you should gauge in your communications with him how enthusiastic/confident he is about delivering your vision. Maybe he simply lacks the expertise with such design and the last thing either party wants is to mark his reputation. That happened to me with my 26” wheel rando bike. The first builder I interviewed several years ago entertained the idea for a week or so. One day I got an email advising that he wasn't comfortable building a rando bike around 26” wheels. This was in spite of his 40+ years of experience. He thought it was an odd design and walked away. I continued my search and found another builder who loved my project. In the end, he delivered and I couldn't be happier!
You make very points thanks. I explained to him how I ride my bike (mostly mixed terrain when alone, asphalt when riding with the local club and next year I want to tackle Brevets up to 600km). So I think now hw will understand what I'm looking for. If he doesn't feel comfortable even regarding his experience, I'll just have to look for another one.
My commuter, a Giant Super Sierra frame with parts from my basement, has 26" wheels and Kojack 50mm slicks. I'm figuring out if I can convert it to drops (I'll probably open another thread for that). So I can sympathize with your idea, but for now I want to stay with 700C wheels because I already have two nice wheelsets that I want to use.
Let's see how this unfolds.. in the meantime I'll keep on being the strange guy in the group rides with shiny fenders and huge 28C tires
09-17-16, 06:45 AM
#41
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For "classic" brevet bikes with tires around that size, you really must look to the French framebuilders. Alex Singer and Rene Herse are the big names, but there were others.
A drop bar bike with a 700x38 tire was essentially unheard of in North America until around 10-15 years ago, with the exception of the Specialized Expedition touring bike of the 80s. OK, on second thought Rivendell started up in the mid 90s, but they were alone. There were possibly some boutique custom framebuilders.
Nowadays, there are many options. Perhaps the three most obvious suppliers of that style of bike in the USA are Rivendell, Velo Orange, and SOMA.
Atlantis - Our best selling touring bike - by Rivendell Bicycle Works
Double Cross (Complete Bicycle) | SOMA Fabrications
VO Campeur Frameset - Campeur - Frames
A drop bar bike with a 700x38 tire was essentially unheard of in North America until around 10-15 years ago, with the exception of the Specialized Expedition touring bike of the 80s. OK, on second thought Rivendell started up in the mid 90s, but they were alone. There were possibly some boutique custom framebuilders.
Nowadays, there are many options. Perhaps the three most obvious suppliers of that style of bike in the USA are Rivendell, Velo Orange, and SOMA.
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Double Cross (Complete Bicycle) | SOMA Fabrications
VO Campeur Frameset - Campeur - Frames
When you say you want a brevet or randonneuse bike and consider the French model for the design, many people have in mind low trail. Rivendell won't get you that, and Velo Orange will only get you that in the heavily-built Campeur. Soma has some low trail, and sells some low trail conversion forks. I think they have them with clearance for that tire w. fender, but you'd have to check.
Not to say low trail is required! it's just that not all these suppliers provide it.
On the custom side, one of the best builders for such a bike is Boulder Bicycles, who also make the modern Rene Herse. Boulder does 700c and 650b, off the peg, partly custom, or full custom. And they are on-board with rando/brevet setups including generator lighting.
Where in Germany? I've spent considerable time in Nordrhein-Westphal, and I know what you mean about the German style in bikes.
Last edited by Road Fan; 09-17-16 at 06:49 AM.
09-17-16, 06:56 AM
#42
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My experience in Germany is that the roadie crowd as we know it is not real large!
09-17-16, 07:46 AM
#43
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My wife's family is sprinkled throughout the Chiemsee gebiet.
When we visit every few years, we bike on a daily basis.
We see waves of roadies training around the Chiemsee, often dealing with the considerable traffic in this tourist area.
FWIW
I had a Rivendell Rambouillet there until recently, but am looking for something a bit different the next time we visit.
I am seriously downsizing my collection at the moment down to 3-4 bikes.
That being said, I really want to have a permanent bike waiting for me when I arrive. Probably something nifty for my wife as well.
I could see having Joel at Clockwork whipping up a rando frameset like the one discussed here. I'd certainly go the wide tire route(650b), as we are often riding through the mtb trails in the Bavarian foothills. Likely go with a mix of XT and White Industries for the drivetrain.
I'd go with low riders on the front and likely just take my Swift Ozette along in the luggage when we go.
Finally, I can't imagine the op would have a tough time finding a builder here to take care of this bike design. Joel at Clockwork could build something within his budget and I would also take a look at Fitz Cycles.
Waiting around half a decade for a Weigle seems absurd to me, not to mention paying that much when there are so many other builders that produce high quality framesets. To each their own I guess.
Last edited by gomango; 09-17-16 at 09:50 AM.
09-17-16, 08:06 AM
#44
Still learning
If low end bikes are permitted in this thread, an early 90's Trek hybrid has classic geometry, cantis and can take very wide rubber ....... Mine doesn't have drops or fenders, but it would not be hard to fathom those additions.
Last edited by oddjob2; 09-17-16 at 08:10 AM.
09-17-16, 08:29 AM
#45
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I had the same dilemma regarding tire width and wheel size. I researched this extensively a few years ago for a couple of custom builds of my own (one for my partner and one for me.) This is what I found out:
700c is great, but as others have indicated, you (or the builder) can easily open a can of worms if you would like to fit wide tires, especially if you want to prevent the dreaded "toe-strike" at low speeds which is easy to do with 38mm tires and fenders depending on the frame size. It can be done but compromises in the steering/handling department might need to be made which could bring disappointments to the end-user. Wide tires on a larger wheel size affect tremendously the feel of the bike -- i.e., it will no longer feel too "sportive".
650b size wheels (AKA 584mm) is what builders mainly in North America prefer to use for the classic "sportive" rando/brevet bikes. It makes sense given that you can easily fit ~42mm tires with fenders. But finding replacement tires outside of the U.S. and France can be really tricky, to say the least. You just need to plan on having an extra pair of tires in your personal stock. Builders tend to go with what they call a "low trail" front geometry which improves the steering dramatically with the load of front bags or handlebar bags randonneurs usually use on their brevets to easily access their food and other essentials. In Europe, I would be looking at French builders for this sort of bike who have an in-depth understanding and sensibility for this type of bikes.
26" wheels (559mm) - If you don't feel confident about the 650b wheel size, this is a very good alternative. Tires are available anywhere in the world, so this is good if you think you might want to travel one day to participate in brevets in other parts of the world as shops will easily carry spares. Just don't try to look for really skinny tires as they're not so easy to find and don't expect anyone in the brevet to carry 26" spare tubes or tires. Having said this, wider tires seem to be exceptionally more resistant to flats. For randonneuring purposes, 1.5"-1.75" tire width (40mm to 47mm) seems to be the happy medium for speed and comfort. A good builder can very much build it as a 650b bike to make it feel nimble with the traditional front/handlebar bag and you will not have no issues of toe-strike even if you would like to go crazy with much wider tires. The added bonus is that a smart build with this wheel size can easily double as a touring bike if one day you change your mind and would like to explore parts of the world with it.
It is so that we decided to go with 26" wheels on our retro randonneur custom builds:
snip . . .
700c is great, but as others have indicated, you (or the builder) can easily open a can of worms if you would like to fit wide tires, especially if you want to prevent the dreaded "toe-strike" at low speeds which is easy to do with 38mm tires and fenders depending on the frame size. It can be done but compromises in the steering/handling department might need to be made which could bring disappointments to the end-user. Wide tires on a larger wheel size affect tremendously the feel of the bike -- i.e., it will no longer feel too "sportive".
650b size wheels (AKA 584mm) is what builders mainly in North America prefer to use for the classic "sportive" rando/brevet bikes. It makes sense given that you can easily fit ~42mm tires with fenders. But finding replacement tires outside of the U.S. and France can be really tricky, to say the least. You just need to plan on having an extra pair of tires in your personal stock. Builders tend to go with what they call a "low trail" front geometry which improves the steering dramatically with the load of front bags or handlebar bags randonneurs usually use on their brevets to easily access their food and other essentials. In Europe, I would be looking at French builders for this sort of bike who have an in-depth understanding and sensibility for this type of bikes.
26" wheels (559mm) - If you don't feel confident about the 650b wheel size, this is a very good alternative. Tires are available anywhere in the world, so this is good if you think you might want to travel one day to participate in brevets in other parts of the world as shops will easily carry spares. Just don't try to look for really skinny tires as they're not so easy to find and don't expect anyone in the brevet to carry 26" spare tubes or tires. Having said this, wider tires seem to be exceptionally more resistant to flats. For randonneuring purposes, 1.5"-1.75" tire width (40mm to 47mm) seems to be the happy medium for speed and comfort. A good builder can very much build it as a 650b bike to make it feel nimble with the traditional front/handlebar bag and you will not have no issues of toe-strike even if you would like to go crazy with much wider tires. The added bonus is that a smart build with this wheel size can easily double as a touring bike if one day you change your mind and would like to explore parts of the world with it.
It is so that we decided to go with 26" wheels on our retro randonneur custom builds:
snip . . .
09-17-16, 08:30 AM
#46
Senior Member
so everyone's general consensus is "don't do it", right? I would also be happy with 35C tires, narrower and I will be underbiking a lot of the time. Most brevets here (if not all) are on asphalt and the occasional forest road but usually fine gravel. I tend to find a lot of coarser gravel when riding on my own though, and my current bike with 28C Gravel Kings just doesn't cut it.
09-17-16, 09:29 AM
#47
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I know you've noted a couple of times that you don't want to go the 650B wheel route, but let me put in a pitch for converting a lightweight roadie into a 650B fat tire all-rounder. I did that with this '97 Lemond Buenos Aires with 38mm Compass tires and have had it on all kinds of mixed surfaces, as well as just regular old road rides.
09-17-16, 09:31 AM
#48
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@mariachi,
Many a frame has been built "long distance", with the builder never meeting the rider in person. If you've been riding a while, and have a comfortable riding position on a bike you currently have, it's fairly easy to transfer those dimensions to a builder and use that as a starting point. I wouldn't recommend a custom frame to someone that was just getting into riding, you'd be guessing what works for the client. That said,
Someone mentioned Fitz as another choice. A person wanting a custom frame on a budget would be well advised to look at "up and coming" frame builders. He's one of them, IMO, and prices accordingly.
Many a frame has been built "long distance", with the builder never meeting the rider in person. If you've been riding a while, and have a comfortable riding position on a bike you currently have, it's fairly easy to transfer those dimensions to a builder and use that as a starting point. I wouldn't recommend a custom frame to someone that was just getting into riding, you'd be guessing what works for the client. That said,
Someone mentioned Fitz as another choice. A person wanting a custom frame on a budget would be well advised to look at "up and coming" frame builders. He's one of them, IMO, and prices accordingly.
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09-17-16, 02:16 PM
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@gugie Fitz and Clockwork seem interesting, but again they live on your side of the Atlantic :/ if it doesn't work with the current guy, I would like to work with someone in Europe
09-17-16, 03:22 PM
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Not super helpful as it's another US builder here, but this seems like a pretty similar build to what you want. It's very useful and comfy with the big tires, but it also gets up and goes, and is a ton of fun. It can be done.