Ali89

Hello there,

I was wondering how much difference would one notice between an aluminium frame that cost approx £150 and one that cost £650? Is there much difference in aluminium frame quality?

thanks

Bonzo Banana

Price doesn't always indicate quality as some sellers may have additional costs, low turnover or just want a very high margin. You really need to look at the specification of the frame, actual aluminium used, butting, geometry and various other factors. Most aluminium frames are coming out of far east factories with a factory door price less than $20. If you think of a scale of 1 to 5 for aluminium frame pricing with 1 being the cheapest and 5 being the most expensive I tend to be a '2' guy which seems to offer the best value before diminishing returns. I think the trouble is you often get scale '2' aluminium frames that are also sold as '3' or even '4' occasionally in my opinion by some companies who are more about marketing and lifestyle than actual value.

Campag4life

Will say this about Al, I love Al bikes and only second to carbon for performance. A very close second btw and pretty transparent in any race where only the rider will make the difference and not the bike.

I recently had an rust issue with my Specialized Secteur emanating from under the paint. 4 years old. I live near the beach in salty air and also sweat a lot on the bike. Specialized would have honored the warranty but I wasn't the original owner. They conceded there was a problem with the frame and as a result because I know the mechanic at the shop he worked with Specialized to cut me a smoking deal on the latest Allez Elite frameset. This bike is now rebuilt with Campy and I use it for causal riding with rack and honestly it is almost as fast as my carbon bike. Almost nothing between them. The new Allez Elite with endurance geometry is simply outstanding. All of the top Al bikes are OP...Trek Al Emonda, Al Synapse, CAAD12, Giant...all the top brands make great Al bikes. I don't want to explore the lower end offerings per your question. I want the engineering of the top makers and willing to pay just a bit more...still $1K less than equivalent carbon models.

Here is a video review of the new frameset I have...same matte black with white decal color as well. Love the bike. I like Specialized but honestly I don't believe there is much between all the big brand Al bikes. My suggestion is save for higher end Al offerings and choose which model based upon your riding preference...the Allez Sprint is an outstanding crit bike for example...basically an Al Tarmac.

mstateglfr 

there are a couple of types of aluminum used for bike frames- 6061 and 7005.
6061 is easier/cheaper to work with. That can be good as its quality and cheaper to manipulate
7005 is slightly stronger.
as for which is better in actual application...well it seems marketing material claims both are better.

a higher quality frame will have hudroformed tubes that are shaped in specific ways to make parts of the frame stiffer or more compliant, based on the frame size, riding style, etc.

a lower quality frame will mimic this with shaped tubes so it looks similar. Is the ride similar though?- maybe and maybe not.

a higher quality frame will have butted tubing. The inside of the tubing will be thinner where strength isnt needed so weight can be saved and ride feel can be improved.
this butting will be frame size specific and also specific to the style of bike. That means the length of butting will vary depending on frame size. 52cm and 64cm frames shouldnt, by default, have the same butting profile. If they do, then it should be because it makes sense and not because its what is cheapest.

a cheaper frame may have generic butting, if at all. The butting will be standardized across sizes so there is no adjusting for rider size etc in order to save money.



these are all generalizations. Sometimes an expensive frame is expensive because the brand wants to sell it for a lot.

not knowing details on frames is in part why I like steel- I enjoy the geek side of things like learning about the butting profiles, the tube diameters chosen, etc.
it seems aluminum frames are more of an unknown when it comes to details.

Dean V

Yes there is. Though price may not be the only indicator of quality it isn't a bad one to start from.

Sy Reene

$35 cotton tee


$480 cotton tee

raria

$35 is cheap?

35 doll

Sy Reene

Who used the word cheap?
Is 150 british pounds ($200) cheap for an alloy frame?

Kimmo

It's my understanding that hydroforming isn't an indication of quality by any means. It just means the frame is made in sufficient volume to justify the expense of the tooling; in fact it's present on some rather low-end offerings.

Furthermore, from what I understand, it's not likely to be present on top-quality frames, since it precludes fine control of wall thickness, meaning any hydroformed tube is going to have thicker walls than would otherwise be necessary.

Campag4life

To your last point...can you name a high end Al frameset that is not hydroformed? Hydroforming promotes asymmetric section modulus which promotes differential bending in perpendicular planes which is precisely what is desired for best frame performance.

mstateglfr 

I see low end bikes with formed tubes and think its for the look to mimic thought out design.
as for the tubing being thicker, that is the first ive heard of it. I'll have to read up on that as i am not familiar.

KraneXL

Its not just a question of material but the quality of workmanship. That's the primary reason carbon bikes are so much more expensive.There are advantages and disadvantages, but they can't both be better.

mstateglfr 

1- for sure the quality of work on the frame affects cost. Tough thing is how much of an unknown that is. Same with carbon since so much of the work is effectively hidden inside the frame.
Often times, how a weld looks is cited as of the welds are good or not. But from examples ive seen, a pretty looking weld isnt always a good quality weld(im guessing that's rare though).

2- agreed that both types of aluminum cant be better.

fietsbob

Unlike Gucci T shirts there are standardized numbers for the various aluminum alloys
used in industry, but bike companies like trade names ,

assuming you wont be bothered to look up the differences
between 6000 and 7000 series aluminum ,
for example..
so have a sticker without that ... because stickers are a thing to add.

so 7075-T6 is a specific material. inticating % of elements in it's composition
the T number is a treatment.







...

McBTC

Just passing along what I've read but, while 7005 is a little stronger, 6061 is a better suited for use in manufacturing processes like hydroforming techniques that enable fabricators to more effectively maximize the properties of the material, the end being a superior performing bicycle frame.

Campag4life

Companies like Specialized are very careful not to tout a given Al alloy for the simple reason that their frames may have a mixture. Of course they want to optimize weight and make their frame around 1000g or abouts if possible. But depending on material gage they spec, location on the bike, how much forming etc they may use different heat treat
Al alloys. It is somewhat analogous to carbon fiber. Most top companies provide a 'series' of carbon and don't specify a particular modulus. This is because frames use different carbon layups throughout. Same with Al...different alloys depending on the objective of a given frame member.

Kimmo

I had a feeling CAAD frames weren't, but after looking into it, it turns out they are. And if Cannondale is doing it, it must be pretty legit. I guess what I was told about wall thickness is probably outdated info.

Bonzo Banana

The best aluminium frame manufacturers have abandoned 7005 like Giant and Merida a while ago. Their entry level aluminium frames tend to be 6061 now and use 6066 (Merida) and 6011 (Giant) for their premium aluminium frames. I don't think fuji-ta the world's biggest high quality aluminium frame manufacturer uses 7005 now or if it does its for specialist orders, they use 6069 for their premium frames. Lastly I remember reading on alibaba a factory that stated it now made high quality aluminium frames of 6061 and had stopped making inferior 7005. On face value 7005 is stronger but 6061 allows easier hydroforming and shaping of the frame so can more easily localise in the frame strength and flexing to improve it's overall performance. I believe 7005 tends to be more brittle and fatigue more. It naturally air hardens over time faster making it more brittle even without use. 7005 can have a higher strength to weight ratio but beyond that I think most of the positives belong to 6061.

I think with Giant who are the actual manufacturer of their own frames you can be sure that as the prices goes up the frame is improved but for many brands where the company is a importer from the far east and may use different factories depending on which gives the best price then its more difficult to judge quality by price. Such brands do not have consistent quality in my opinion. Some importers used to use Giant aluminium frames (probably the best) but have started using other factories for cost reasons. The 2 top aluminium frame manufacturers Giant and Merida have lost a lot of oem orders to cheaper taiwanese companies who manufacture outside Taiwan or mainland China manufacturers (fuji-ta etc). Trying to spot the real manufacturer of frames can be really difficult. Cannondale is easy as 6069 is a fuji-ta premium aluminium and the fuji-ta site clearly states they make Cannondales as well as many other brands of Dorel; GT, Schwinn etc. I think they have a long term relationship. Other brands may have manufacturer's tender for contracts and then you don't really know who makes the frames as there could be multiple suppliers. When Tern had all their frame recalls it was clear they were using multiple factories not just for different models but for batches of the same model. So different owners of the same bicycle model and same year can have different quality frames. For me if I'm buying some bargain end of year hugely discounted bike I'm not going to be too critical but if I'm paying top money I would at least want to get a brand that actually manufactures their own bikes.

Lastly if you ever spend the time to wander around a large bicycle retailer looking at bikes purely from a quality perspective; paint finish, weld beading, component choices etc it's often easy to find bikes that stand out as appalling value among the average value or good value bikes. It can even be from the same brand that offers good value bikes elsewhere in the shop. Sometimes you see children's versions of bikes also available in adult sizes and everything has been downgraded to light duty parts but the price remains surprisingly close to that of the adult bike despite obviously costing a small fraction to make with its limited gears, freewheel and more basic unbutted frame. I'm just making the point that brands are more than happy to exploit customer's brand perception to maximise their profit and margin and its not always related to what it costs to make.

Campag4life

To your last point, my Specialized Secteur which was 4 years old had what I consider substandard weld quality. Ultimately the paint started to bubble from a couple of these poor welds on the frame which resulted in replacing the frameset with the latest Allez Elite which in effect is the replacement model for the discontinued Secteur.

Even though the frame model level is not dissimilar, the weld quality on the new Allez is from another planet it is so good in comparison. The frame design is also quite a bit different with some really excellent design cues which make it such an excellent riding frame. Even with relatively poor weld quality of the Secteur the bike was rock solid and performed beautifully until it was replaced.

PaulRivers

My (albeit limited) experience from test riding was that cheaper frames tended to use old straightforward designs that were poor at handling road vibration. I'm kinda of sensitive to it. You could also consider that the better aluminum bikes come with a carbon fiber fork that can also vary in quality. The more recent and more expensive aluminum frames handled road buzz far far better. I test road a Giant frame recently and was kinda shocked how decently it rode over potholes etc on the road.

I think you get a little bit better quality in the materials and build, but where you really benefit is better design.

KraneXL

Which is to the credit of the technology. I suspect we can look for even more advancements beyond traditional frames, in future bike designed.

rms13

I just recently picked up a newer Fuji Roubaix. It's an amazing frame for the price. I see the frameset selling for about $540 but I got a complete Tiagra build for under $800 new. It's "super butted" 6066, internal routing, tapered head tube, hyrdroformed tubes with flattened top tube, angular dowtube, oversized chainstays and all the other modern design you'd expect on any other high end aluminum and under 1100g. Not as light as some of the higher end alum frames, welds aren't completely invisible like on a CAAD (but still nice and smooth) but it's a great riding bike for the money

Bonzo Banana

I'm not sure of the timescale but Merida bought into Specialized (I think they own 49%) a few years ago and now pretty much all their bikes except perhaps entry level are made by Merida and Merida are one of the best large scale frame manufacturer's in the world. Personally I rate Giant higher but I have some older 7005 Saracen bikes with Merida frames and they are superb. I would be comfortable buying a Specialized bike knowing it's a Merida frame where as other brands I'm uncertain of because I just wouldn't know who made the frame. It's possible from what you have written that the early frame was from a completely different inferior factory. Even if Merida had already bought in to the firm on that date there must have been a transitional period before most of the frames were sourced from Merida.

Bonzo Banana

I think Giant are the largest bicycle company in the world by revenue and have the most advanced factories although the Taiwanese plants are meant to be better than the Chinese mainland facilities. I'm a big fan of Giant I have to say, not only do they make beautiful great riding frames, they have the highest weight limits, a lifetime warranty and pretty much a great attitude to customer service although this may vary by country. If I was spending serious money on a bike I'd certainly want to make sure I check out their models however admittedly I'm often swayed by the best deals and I'm very price sensitive.

Bob Dopolina 

Last I checked C'Dale was made by some one else in Taiwan. I knew some of the people involved in the switch but that was a few years ago. After all that investment it would be a bit of a surprise if they moved to the mainland. But it is possible, I guess.