Swapping Italian carbon for new Italian steel! Help!!
#27
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Instead of looking at frames and picking one out based on the aesthetic opinions of others, perhaps prioritize frames that have the geometry you are looking for, and then compare those for aesthetics and tubing?
To me, that would seem like a better approach as it will get you a bike that fits how you want to ride.
Comments like 'Masters ride harsh' or 'De Rosas handle well' tells very little with regards to how the bikes will work for you.
To me, that would seem like a better approach as it will get you a bike that fits how you want to ride.
Comments like 'Masters ride harsh' or 'De Rosas handle well' tells very little with regards to how the bikes will work for you.
I had a BMC RoadMachine a couple of years ago in a size 56 and I think maybe that was a tad too big and had me stretching too much. The De Rosa I have now is a 54 and I had a (ok) bike fit on it and it seems to be a good fit. (54.5 TT) I believe. I haven’t ridden steel since properly road cycling so I just have no idea what’s gonna work till I try it.
thanks!
#28
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Thanks for all the help and advice, I wanted to reply to all the posts but I got capped at 5 posts per day so that didn’t really work out. But yeah it’s all been noted!!
Those Casati’s that have been mentioned are lovely and right up my street! Lots of options to consider!
however, I think I have my favourite- I’m gonna work towards and find out about fitting myself to a Colnago Arabesque. The lugs and the crimped tubes just offer that extra touch of special that I haven’t found elsewhere. All the other frames are special in their own way but I just love those details! As you can see in my last post/reply, the fit is a bit of an unknown, but Sigma Sports in London are selling the frame (this convenience is also a plus) so I might pop in and ask about sizing me up. I’m just quite tolerant to different geometries so I’m never sure, even after a bike fit. like, I could go based on my current bike, but how do I know that is the 100% right fit. It feels ok...
I’m 83 inseam. 5”10. 11 stone. Pretty much a standard body shape and size. If anyone is similar to me and owns a Master, I’d love to know what size you went for. If you don’t own a Master, I’d still love your input haha!
thanks!
Those Casati’s that have been mentioned are lovely and right up my street! Lots of options to consider!
however, I think I have my favourite- I’m gonna work towards and find out about fitting myself to a Colnago Arabesque. The lugs and the crimped tubes just offer that extra touch of special that I haven’t found elsewhere. All the other frames are special in their own way but I just love those details! As you can see in my last post/reply, the fit is a bit of an unknown, but Sigma Sports in London are selling the frame (this convenience is also a plus) so I might pop in and ask about sizing me up. I’m just quite tolerant to different geometries so I’m never sure, even after a bike fit. like, I could go based on my current bike, but how do I know that is the 100% right fit. It feels ok...
I’m 83 inseam. 5”10. 11 stone. Pretty much a standard body shape and size. If anyone is similar to me and owns a Master, I’d love to know what size you went for. If you don’t own a Master, I’d still love your input haha!
thanks!
#29
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It seems to me people obsess a bit about "custom fit" for a frame. There's very little in the groupset you can't micro-adjust to get the fit comfortable. Get whatever frame you want, get it a size close enough, and you should be OK.
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Don't leave out the small time builders. Some real gems out there if you look. I had this wonderful riding Paletti built up this year. Tempted to go fully modern but went a bit older for the silver groupset.
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Steel is real...and comfy.
Steel is real...and comfy.
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#32
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Yeah I would agree with this, but I’m going to be buying the frame and building it up over time. So knowing which will fit the best and ride the way I want it to is quite tricky. I’ve had a bike fit before, and it wasn’t too conclusive on what suits me. All through my teenage years I rode all different types of bikes and now on road bikes I don’t do a crazy amount of miles so I know it sounds a bit amateur but I can sort of fit myself to the frame and style as long as it’s roughly right. I’m enjoying that now at 27 but I don’t know how long that’s gonna be the case for!!
I had a BMC RoadMachine a couple of years ago in a size 56 and I think maybe that was a tad too big and had me stretching too much. The De Rosa I have now is a 54 and I had a (ok) bike fit on it and it seems to be a good fit. (54.5 TT) I believe. I haven’t ridden steel since properly road cycling so I just have no idea what’s gonna work till I try it.
thanks!
I had a BMC RoadMachine a couple of years ago in a size 56 and I think maybe that was a tad too big and had me stretching too much. The De Rosa I have now is a 54 and I had a (ok) bike fit on it and it seems to be a good fit. (54.5 TT) I believe. I haven’t ridden steel since properly road cycling so I just have no idea what’s gonna work till I try it.
thanks!
Take your current de rosa and look up the measurements or just measure them yourself.
Head tube angle, seat tube angle, bottom bracket drop from dropouts, chainstsy length, fork offset, and stack and reach.
All those measurements affect if a bike feels quick or slow, too big a reach or comfortable.
A basic top tube measurement really doesnt mean much at all for fit or style of ride.
These measurements are why some find a frame too twitchy while others like the same frame and find it quick handling and responsive.
Spending the money you are about to spend, i would think you would want to know how a frame will feel relative to a bike you know you like.
#33
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Thats lovely! Yeah after what some people mentioned in the forum and also with my research, I found lots of amazing small bike brands that I could even visit, for a really nice intimate experience. I think I’ll definitely do this one day. But they had something missing for me, and I think it’s that little hint of opulence that those lugs and tubing bring. But yeah, once that itch has been scratched, I think that’s a really nice process and way to buy a bike.
#34
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You have a bike that you like, so use that.
Take your current de rosa and look up the measurements or just measure them yourself.
Head tube angle, seat tube angle, bottom bracket drop from dropouts, chainstsy length, fork offset, and stack and reach.
All those measurements affect if a bike feels quick or slow, too big a reach or comfortable.
A basic top tube measurement really doesnt mean much at all for fit or style of ride.
These measurements are why some find a frame too twitchy while others like the same frame and find it quick handling and responsive.
Spending the money you are about to spend, i would think you would want to know how a frame will feel relative to a bike you know you like.
Take your current de rosa and look up the measurements or just measure them yourself.
Head tube angle, seat tube angle, bottom bracket drop from dropouts, chainstsy length, fork offset, and stack and reach.
All those measurements affect if a bike feels quick or slow, too big a reach or comfortable.
A basic top tube measurement really doesnt mean much at all for fit or style of ride.
These measurements are why some find a frame too twitchy while others like the same frame and find it quick handling and responsive.
Spending the money you are about to spend, i would think you would want to know how a frame will feel relative to a bike you know you like.
I’ll get it measured up, and I’ll probably get a quick fit before I buy the frame too. I suppose my point is that I just don’t think I would know the difference between twitchy and quick handling/responsive because I haven’t had any long time with one size and style of road bike. So it’s really hard to know what will work. Suck it and see I suppose. I think I’d go for a 54, and then when it comes to fitting components, have a play with those sizes.
but yeah, it’s not gonna be cheap you’re right. And I would very much like to know that, but seems to be a hard thing for a rider like me to establish. I think thats a small reason why the Colnago just pipped it too- so many people like the ride and are happy with the sizing and comfort, so I can take some solace in that. Plus if there’s an issue, there will be others who can advise.
#35
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I'm 86 inseam, 5'10" (used to be 5'11.5"... shrinking with age at 62), 11.4 stone (target is old race weight of 10.6 stone). I can ride c-c 52 to 56 frame easily enough with proper stem and saddle adjustments. I 'like' 170mm cranks w 52 or 53 'big' chain ring. By 'easily' I mean the frames perform as to my liking without feeling cramped or too big as if sitting too far back and stretched out. It's not a scientific explanation by any means.
The Colnago Arabesque will be a very nice ride!
The Colnago Arabesque will be a very nice ride!
#36
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I've owned a Pinarello Montello since '92 (it's an '87), which I converted to 8 speed Chorus, and have kept that way. Both the Montello, and a slightly older Record I recently picked up, will accept a 130mm wheel without even stretching the frame.
I also have a '96 Master Light (with Gilco tubing) that I picked up late last year and rebuilt with 11 speed Chorus (it came with Dura Ace 9). What a gorgeous bike in that over the top Art Decor paint (this is AD4), and it turns heads for sure, and it's a joy to ride. But, I dread the day it gets scuffed up. I wouldnt call the ride twitchy, but the bike just knows where you want it to go and makes it happen - think turn, and it dives in, think straighten out and you're there.
I also have a '96 Master Light (with Gilco tubing) that I picked up late last year and rebuilt with 11 speed Chorus (it came with Dura Ace 9). What a gorgeous bike in that over the top Art Decor paint (this is AD4), and it turns heads for sure, and it's a joy to ride. But, I dread the day it gets scuffed up. I wouldnt call the ride twitchy, but the bike just knows where you want it to go and makes it happen - think turn, and it dives in, think straighten out and you're there.
#37
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Who makes the modern Torelli frames? I've heard good things about them, though IIRC "Torelli" is an import brand for Italian frames like Italvega was back in the day.
https://torelli.com/shop/spettro/
the "modern" Cinelli Supercorsa is a hot looker as well (though apparently Cinelli also contracts Italian framebuilders to make their modern made-in-Italy steel bikes). Pro tip: get it in white
https://www.cinelli-usa.com/supercorsa-frame-set/
also if you really want to go deluxe (since you're shopping for Colnagos and De Rosas) and price isn't an object, you should really spring for stainless steel (Reynolds 953/Columbus XCR). Cachet of titanium but much, much rarer. I see titanium bikes in the city very frequently (they're popular among the young nouveau-riche techie set), but I've never seen stainless.
https://torelli.com/shop/il-30/
https://www.cinelli-usa.com/xcr-frameset-magic-mirror/
(that Magic Mirror XCR is so hot, if I was rich and retired)
edit: apparently people seem to think Torellis are currently made by Cicli Barco. To be honest, something like that is my recommendation, especially if you live in Europe. Lots of people have Colnagos, but not too many people have custom-made frames from small Italian shops anymore
https://www.ciclibarco.it/?portfolio=prova-prova
https://torelli.com/shop/spettro/
the "modern" Cinelli Supercorsa is a hot looker as well (though apparently Cinelli also contracts Italian framebuilders to make their modern made-in-Italy steel bikes). Pro tip: get it in white
https://www.cinelli-usa.com/supercorsa-frame-set/
also if you really want to go deluxe (since you're shopping for Colnagos and De Rosas) and price isn't an object, you should really spring for stainless steel (Reynolds 953/Columbus XCR). Cachet of titanium but much, much rarer. I see titanium bikes in the city very frequently (they're popular among the young nouveau-riche techie set), but I've never seen stainless.
https://torelli.com/shop/il-30/
https://www.cinelli-usa.com/xcr-frameset-magic-mirror/
(that Magic Mirror XCR is so hot, if I was rich and retired)
edit: apparently people seem to think Torellis are currently made by Cicli Barco. To be honest, something like that is my recommendation, especially if you live in Europe. Lots of people have Colnagos, but not too many people have custom-made frames from small Italian shops anymore
https://www.ciclibarco.it/?portfolio=prova-prova
Last edited by sheddle; 10-07-19 at 08:30 AM.
#39
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Don’t forget Ciocc is still available in steel. Has a cult following.
https://www.ciocc.it/en/product-tag/steel/
https://www.ciocc.it/en/product-tag/steel/
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#41
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Cinelli stainless steel
#42
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Has anyone mentioned Pegoretti yet?
#43
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Oooh lots of helpful info and advice, thankyou!
tbh I haven’t heard of Torelli yet, which is surprising given my hours lost researching this topic! I’ll check them out now. As for CIOCC, I’m gonna have a look, was unaware they were still building new frames. I’m looking at the Wilier Superleggera and the Cinelli Supercorsa as the most realistic options (can’t be bothered with threading the thread less steerers and I want a quill), the Wilier in particular as it’s styling allows me to go for Super record without compromising the look of the bike. It’s that or the supercorsa with silver (maybe potenza) campy. And yeah, I wanna use new parts if I can, as i want to build a new modern classic! The original and NOS bike will come at some point I’m sure, so I don’t wanna step on it’s toes. Plus I’m getting rid of a very nice and light Carbon De Rosa SK and this new build will be my primary and only proper ride.
Sheddle- thanks for that, but why a white Cinelli? Tell us the gossip.
cheers all, appreciating the comments! Been scouring threads for years trying to find info that is relevant to me, so its great that this actually this!
tbh I haven’t heard of Torelli yet, which is surprising given my hours lost researching this topic! I’ll check them out now. As for CIOCC, I’m gonna have a look, was unaware they were still building new frames. I’m looking at the Wilier Superleggera and the Cinelli Supercorsa as the most realistic options (can’t be bothered with threading the thread less steerers and I want a quill), the Wilier in particular as it’s styling allows me to go for Super record without compromising the look of the bike. It’s that or the supercorsa with silver (maybe potenza) campy. And yeah, I wanna use new parts if I can, as i want to build a new modern classic! The original and NOS bike will come at some point I’m sure, so I don’t wanna step on it’s toes. Plus I’m getting rid of a very nice and light Carbon De Rosa SK and this new build will be my primary and only proper ride.
Sheddle- thanks for that, but why a white Cinelli? Tell us the gossip.
cheers all, appreciating the comments! Been scouring threads for years trying to find info that is relevant to me, so its great that this actually this!
#44
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The Superleggera. I think it’s one of a few of the new builds that the black group sets look lovey on. So this is the option of I go super record!
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#46
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Check out Tommasini bikes. I had a bright red metallic Sintesi, back in the 90's. Excellent workmanship, but the may cost even more than a Colnago master. In the past, I've had two C-40 frames and now have a modern, but inexpensive C-RS with Chorus 12.
#47
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I was looking at Italian lugged frames ... not oversized (SL tubing), external brake cabling (hate the rattle!), stage tour geometry for comfort, threaded headset.
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I hit this thread searching for information on Maurizio Barco frames ... I think he was making (or may still be making)IL Massimo Lugati Leggero frames, which look beautiful. I think he builds a lot of frames for different brands.
I was looking at Italian lugged frames ... not oversized (SL tubing), external brake cabling (hate the rattle!), stage tour geometry for comfort, threaded headset.
I was looking at Italian lugged frames ... not oversized (SL tubing), external brake cabling (hate the rattle!), stage tour geometry for comfort, threaded headset.