sd5782 

Can anyone comment on 4x spoke lacing being softer as I’ve seen rumored? I will also say that the standard Pasela had a quite different feel than the Pro Tite version. I was really curious as to whether and how much factors besides tires entered into the picture.

52telecaster

I almost exclusively ride 4 cross but it's because I like how forgiving the spoke length calculations are when changing hub diameter. 4 cross thirty six spoke has the spokes almost tangent as they leave the hub. This means as hub size changes spoke length changes very little. As to ride quality, I like em. I can't say there is a huge difference but it feels better to me.

Velo Mule

The old guys said that 4X gives a softer ride because the spokes are longer than the standard 3X pattern. Those old guys must be in their 90's now since I'm an old guy. I don't know if my Butt-o-meter would be able to tell the difference. I've done some 4X wheels in the past. Recently, I have been going with 3X patterns, however, I like @52telecaster 's reasoning behind going to 4X. For ride quality, if you use double butted spokes laced 4X maybe you can feel it with a Brook Cambium saddle. I don't know. The tire width, sidewall stiffness and tire pressure are, I believe, the biggest variables.

I believe that some smart people have also mentioned the Air Volume of the tire as an important factor as well. Since we are generally talking about comparing like size diameter tires, that would go back to the width. Then it would make width doubly important.

Classtime 

Wouldn't it make sense that the more spokes you have the less tension you need which makes for more give at the rim? And of course we all ride low profile rims.

52telecaster

For sure tires are way more important than spoke cross.

steelbikeguy

I don't think that less tension means that the spokes will be stretchier.. it just means that they are further from the point where they fail.

If you are looking for stretchier spokes (i.e. less stiff, or will stretch further with a given load), then a thinner spoke is what you are looking for.

Or, you could design a spoke that wasn't straight, so that it acts like a spring. That's what was done for the Otto Dicycle...



Steve in Peoria

mhespenheide 

On two of my modern bikes, I've got a Redshift ShockStop seatpost and an eeSilk seatpost. Both are great. The Redshift is on an older Kona mountain bike, now repurposed as a drop-bar monstercross "gravel" bike and has more travel; say, 10-15mm. Nice for a tiny bit of suspension, especially on climbs. The eeSilk is on a road bike that can only fit ~27mm tires; the post gives ~4-5mm of travel and helps those 27mm tires feel more like 32mm tires. In particular, the eeSilk is worth it to me since I basically wouldn't ride that bike without it. I love the bike, but I'm too addicted to additional compliance on crappy roads to go back. If you're really willing to go modern, the Cannondale SAVE seatpost in 25.4mm diameter and carbon has a similar effect in muting bumps without much actual "travel". It just feels a lot more muted or softer than an equivalent diameter aluminum seatpost.

Not really C&V, but I give each of them two thumbs up, if you're thinking about trying them out.

63rickert

It all matters. Sure tires are biggest and easiest. Yes, four cross feels softer. Yes, thin butted spokes. Yes, flat rims. Lower spoke tension works, although the wheel may be less durable. Light gauge tubing and especially light fork blades. Nice long chain stays, not 80s criterium stuff. Also try plain long fork blades with a lot of rake and a lot of air above the tire and below the crown.

I own two bikes such that on first ride ordinary pavement cracks and bumps are not felt at all from the front wheel. Then the back wheel slams hard because the front wheel never signaled to lift off the saddle. Takes a while to readjust perception and notice the bumps again. The'50 Bates has the diadrant fork plus huge clearance above the tire. The '60 Carré has 65mm of rake and again lots of air above tire. Of course both of those bikes live on sewups, wide ones.

Then there is the Eastman DL-1 clone with 47" of wheelbase, 66 degree angles, 3-1/2" of rake, and Herse 700x42 tires. Every little thing matters. The OEM fork with 3-1/4 rake had a bike rack incident, the replacement fork had 1/4" more rake. Which made a difference. Also put the bike closer to neutral trail. 47" of wheelbase and Herse tires floats.

Just avoid the aberrant bikes with 40cm chain stays and no clearance for more than 700x19 and most bikes ride pretty good. Stiff stiff stiff stiff stiff stiff stiff is for marketing not for riding. Stiff leads to brittle fracture and first thing to fracture is the rider. Also for gods sake put your saddle down and let some air out of the tire. After tires the primary shock absorber is your knees. That function is locked out when you sit high.

Classtime 

And that is all folks.